Quote from the Products section of the Dragonlance website on Legends of the Twins:
"The sourcebook will offer rules for character traits to further deepen the roleplaying experience..."
I really hope this is done well. Though on the whole I thought Unearthed Arcana was a great book, I thought the Character Traits section in it was rubbish - stuff like Hardy, Quick, Saddleborn, and Spell-gifted are not character traits, they're munchkin excuses to boost your power level and have little or no bearing on roleplaying, despite the banale attempts to do so in the background text.
IMO, Character Traits should be about personality, behavioural idiosynchrasies, passions, obsessions, goals, and background history. Not physical traits like Hard of Hearing or Near-sighted, which merely become irritating after a short period of roleplaying. One of the better attempts on the subject was actually in a DL book - the Saga Companion - some of which I still use for my DL campaigns today.
And I hope there is sound advice about deepening the roleplaying experience for the DM as well as the player in there, too, not just the old +1 benefit, -1 penalty crunch. Give us some good fluff, and encourage better roleplaying - depth of character, and the stories that grew out of the characters' personalities, was probably the main thing that drew me to DL over any other setting.
I would hope to see advice on designing adventures/scenes that encourage roleplaying (i.e. morally ambiguous), using character backgrounds to design later twists in adventures, and advice on encouraging an atmosphere where people can feel comfortable in roleplaying in-game (and when to know that players are just not up for it).
Please do this important aspect justice.
Simon Collins
I'd be interested in hearing about peoples experience of character depth and roleplaying in their DL games vs other campaign settings, too.
Or do you need help fleshing out your PC's background, a la Hero's Builder Guidebook or Central Casting: Heroes of Legend material?
You need to roll on several tables and charts to determine your PC's demeanors and mannerisms???
Or do you need help fleshing out your PC's background, a la Hero's Builder Guidebook or Central Casting: Heroes of Legend material?
God, I loved Central Casting. That was such a great book.
You need to roll on several tables and charts to determine your PC's demeanors and mannerisms???
Or do you need help fleshing out your PC's background, a la Hero's Builder Guidebook or Central Casting: Heroes of Legend material?
Neither. I believe you took one line from the post and exaggerated it out of proportion in line with your prejudices. :rolleye2:
But perhaps the Saga Companion was a bad example since I've never rolled on a table in my life, and never will. I just grabbed the plethora of ideas in there to stimulate ideas for PCs and NPCs backgrounds over the years - I found it particularly useful for giving new players bones to hang their ideas on. Just because it's in a table doesn't mean you have to use it that way! I also used some of the stuff in there for adventure ideas, particularly in respect to scenes where roleplaying plays a heavy part. But I could see if you were a bit set in your ways you might not have a lot of use for it. ;)
If you can ignore the Saga Companion example then, I'm really talking about a discussion of character and roleplaying in the world of Dragonlance. Linking this in to a character traits system that offers more than a simple +1, -1 bonus/penalty to allow muchkins to boost their power - instead linking it in to ideas that reflect both the archetypes and new concepts that have added depth to DL characters and stories over the years.
I can't comment effectively on the two books you mention as I have only read reviews of the Hero Builder's Guidebook and had not heard of the other book you mentioned. But I certainly think that whilst the HBG seems to be helpful to newbie DMs and players, I do see space for something a good deal more useful for experienced DL DMs and players.
In my experience, despite the presumption of some that everybody knows how to roleplay, design scenes that will be good for roleplaying, and create a character that will be fun to roleplay, it's just not the case in reality. All I'm saying is that I'd like to see a short section (not a book) that encouraged roleplaying DL-style for both DM and players, instead of giving a +1 to Listen and a -1 to saves vs sonic effects and calling it a character trait.
Simon Collins
Anyway, I think you have a good idea there. It would be nice to get some roleplaying advice, in terms of the DL setting, in a sourcebook. You are absolutely right that there are quite the number of people who do not have roleplay skills, or DMing psyches. A bit of help in terms of the setting would definitely be refreshing, even to veteran players I would think.
In my experience, despite the presumption of some that everybody knows how to roleplay, design scenes that will be good for roleplaying, and create a character that will be fun to roleplay, it's just not the case in reality. All I'm saying is that I'd like to see a short section (not a book) that encouraged roleplaying DL-style for both DM and players, instead of giving a +1 to Listen and a -1 to saves vs sonic effects and calling it a character trait.
Roleplaying DL-style. Hmm.
The only way to give players ideas is to provide fluff information about DL cultures and customs, including a few local phrases they would use, what they look like and what they wear (this is where "fashion" artworks come in), give local history that even the most average local resident know, how they court for companion or conduct businesses, etc.
My greatest experience with something of this nature was in 2nd ed, where we used a book that had a set of traits and faults (name slips my mind). I chose to make a dwarf with chronic honesty. To be fair, I have no clue what the crunch it gave me was, it was there but most likely not anything worth remembering anyways. Now, what really made it a good choice for RP, the character was a low wisdom Rogue, and the Chronic Honesty was a wisdom based fault. Each time I tried to lie I had to make a wisdom check, and most times I failed it.
Needless to say, after I was captured for attempting to break into a lords mannor and was dragged to the king, the conversation went something like this:King: What were you doing in there?
Me: Obviously trying to steal some things.
King: And what were you after?
Me: Well, I was looking for a sword, specifically. Found it too, but then you guys came. Gonna have to go back after you let me out.
King: Let you out!? Thats a good one dwarf. Since you seem to be so cooperative, let me ask you this, who were you working for?
Me: Uh. . . .The local rogues guild. . .
King: And where are they?
Me: Go out here and make a left, go three blocks and look for a broken fence, the entrance is through the cellar doors there.
King: And why were you trying to steal the sword?
Me: Because I was looking to become a great hero, and I needed a weapon to do that.
After I broke out of the prison I went on to the next town where a group of assassins attacked me in my sleep. I lept to my feet and fended them off, using nothing but fist and a makeshift shield (desk drower), all while in my underwear. They never touched me, I killed all three of them, and when I asked them what they wanted with me, it was because I ratted out the Rogues Guild.
I think Reg was actually making a joke Simon.
Yup, due to stuff going on in Real Life I seem to have lost my normally good sense of humour in the last week or two - there was no offence intended in my reply - I need to get away for a few days, I think, and chill out!
The only way to give players ideas is to provide fluff information about DL cultures and customs, including a few local phrases they would use, what they look like and what they wear (this is where "fashion" artworks come in), give local history that even the most average local resident know, how they court for companion or conduct businesses, etc.
Yes, great ideas. Do you think this can be tied in to the character traits system so the sytem becomes DL-centric? Region/race-based character traits? Or do you think it should remain separate?
...I chose to make a dwarf with chronic honesty. To be fair, I have no clue what the crunch it gave me was, it was there but most likely not anything worth remembering anyways...
That's what I'm hoping the character traits system in LotT will do - provide memorable roleplaying opportunities, whilst the crunch has a low impact on the game.
Great story, BTW! Kudos to your DM - it shows that the most important thing about any Flaw system is that the DM enforces the consequences of the PCs actions to balance the advantages gained from the Benefit. That's what really allows the character to develop and the story to become totally engaging.
Yes, great ideas. Do you think this can be tied in to the character traits system so the sytem becomes DL-centric? Region/race-based character traits? Or do you think it should remain separate?
To be honest with you, I avoided anything that is related to SAGA rules. So, I don't know what the Companion contains.
Personally, I let the player choose what region his character comes from. I don't force them to allocate their skill points (some of them) to certain skills a person local to that region would know or acquire while growing up.
Alternatively, you could offer them the Occupation rules found in d20 Modern (don't worry, you can download the free Modern System Reference Documents to find the rules also there). While the Occupation rules determines the character's first (and hopefully current) job, you can tweak the rules to represent a person's background or social status for any d20 games. The selection of "regional background" skills will be added to the character as permanent class skills, and if some or all of the skills are already mentioned in your class skills, you get a +1 background bonus to that particular skill check. You may also offer free feats that are related to their background.
As for demeanor, I leave it up to the player. Alternatively, you could give them simple history (in the form of tables or charts) that will determine his attitude, from being orphaned to being a social gentry. Such would be in addition to their regional attitude (some cultures are xenophobic or practice openness with kleptomania). It would be interesting how a player could roleplay a xenophobic party-goer.