It also would be good if a new line of Ravenloft novels were written.
How many agree that Ravenloft should be fully supported by WoTC?
As for being fully supported, my corporate mindset say "no." The best we can hope for is WotC salvaging useful material for inclusion in the upcoming Heroes of Horror book.
After all, they salvaged Space Frontier and Star*Drive material for d20 Future book.
The only way Heroes of Horror may attract me and my money (sorry, wallet) is if I can play Vampire or Werewolf PC (with helpful powerplay info and useful feats and skills that can be used in many undying adventures).
And good thing too... WW sucked at Ravenloft.
Meh. And there are those who would disagree with you.
(I'm not having that same discussion that was already in the Future Release forum.)
I wouldn't be surprised to see WOTC eventually start to support more campaign settings. You can only release so many class, environment, and other such general supplements before you saturate the market after all. The same thing happened in 2E where there we like a dozen different campaign settings towards the end. Eventually when Coffee Cups of Faerun or The Cable Guys of Eberron don't do so hot I wouldn't be surprised to see a return to some of the old settings or maybe the development of some new ones.
Hmph.
So, it's basically TSR all over again.
To be brutally honest, I'd be surprised if they take what I consider to be a very bad business direction.
Hmph.
So, it's basically TSR all over again.
To be brutally honest, I'd be surprised if they take what I consider to be a very bad business direction.
You know, we agree on this. I think it would be a very bad decision as well...from a business standpoint. If they did it would seem to be creating a trend. Not a good one at that I might add.
"I know that Wizards of the Coast have put out new 3.5 versions of Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms but I'm wondering if any of you may have heard if they are planning on releasing new 3.5 versions of any of the other classic campaign settings like Greyhawk or Ravenloft or Dark Sun or Spelljammrer, etc? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!"
So do you all think this would happen now? I never got to play in some of the classic campaigns outside of Greyhawk and I really want to now in new 3.5 updated versions.
Btw, can someone explain to me the Ravenloft campaign setting? I was always VERY interested in it with the horror aspect and all but what world is Ravenloft a part of? Is it its own world or a part of the classic default AD&D gameworld of Greyhawk?
Planescape-> Updated (Planescape.org??)
Darksun-> Updated (Athas.org)
Ravenloft-> 3.0 (White Wolf)
Greyhawk-> 3.5 (Core, durr!)
I
Btw, can someone explain to me the Ravenloft campaign setting? I was always VERY interested in it with the horror aspect and all but what world is Ravenloft a part of? Is it its own world or a part of the classic default AD&D gameworld of Greyhawk?
Ravenloft is a demiplane. It's Transylvania on steroid. Either you have to commit the most heinous deed or if the demiplane feel sinister, you could walk into a mist and suddenly find yourself no longer back on your homeworld.
Btw, can someone explain to me the Ravenloft campaign setting? I was always VERY interested in it with the horror aspect and all but what world is Ravenloft a part of? Is it its own world or a part of the classic default AD&D gameworld of Greyhawk?
More part of Planescape and Spelljammer(back in 2.ed., the worlds(DL, RL, GH, FR) were all part of the whole.). Ravenloft was the Demiplane of Dread, a thoroughly nasty place in the Ethereal Plane, that attracted "bad guys" from all over the place, like lord Soth(from DL), Hazlik,(FR), and Vecna(GH).
Also, Manyfist, it's not planescape.org, it's planewalker.com.
I have just heard that WoTC has reaquired Ravenloft. This is awesome! We need new books (Masque of the Jade Dragon, for example).
It also would be good if a new line of Ravenloft novels were written.
How many agree that Ravenloft should be fully supported by WoTC?
God no, WoTC is gonna make Ravenloft all FUBAR. Ravenloft is a low magic, gritty, gothic horror world. WoTC is gonna have archmages and dragons all over.
Looking at the people who produced the forgotten realms and eberron i am terrified of the what the kings of high magic hack n slash are gonna do to my favorite setting.
But one has to note, it became a hub for all campaign settings to converge, much like Spelljammer, which I dread them crysal spheres (or shells) and phlogiston.
When one think of Ravenloft, I think of Strahd, not Lord Soth that somehow he and his castle was moved into that demiplane.
The same goes for Spelljammer, I think of ships in space, not an alternative means to transport from one setting to another.
Each should be its own unique setting, not a hub. Woe to the person (DM) that tries to run more than two settings at a time, mixing a Taladan minotaur with a Halruaan wizard.
God no, WoTC is gonna make Ravenloft all FUBAR. Ravenloft is a low magic, gritty, gothic horror world. WoTC is gonna have archmages and dragons all over.
Looking at the people who produced the forgotten realms and eberron i am terrified of the what the kings of high magic hack n slash are gonna do to my favorite setting.
You don't really know a lot about Eberron, do you? ;)
And Kara-Tur... Well, I don't remember where it was supposed to be when first published, but I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that it somehow became a part of the Realms. (Coincidentally, the Maztica and Al-Qadim settings were also part of the Realms.)
That makes me wonder about another favorite setting of mine that I did get the chance to play in but never quite knew for sure what it was supposed to be of. The setting of Oriental Adventures...Kara-Tur...wasn't it simply a region on the default AD&D campaign world? Or was it its own complete world?
I thought it was supposed to be the far east of the forgotten realms?
You don't really know a lot about Eberron, do you? ;)
Hmm half golems and shape changers as core races? Nope thats not a high magic setting at all. Pretty much everything i have heard make it sound like a cross between final fantasy and the forgotten realms. Or maybe just the realms a few more centuries down the line.
Hmm half golems and shape changers as core races? Nope thats not a high magic setting at all.
Characters who get spells at level 1 as core material? That sounds like a high magic game to me.
...
Oh, wait, that's D&D since day the first.
Hmm half golems and shape changers as core races? Nope thats not a high magic setting at all. Pretty much everything i have heard make it sound like a cross between final fantasy and the forgotten realms. Or maybe just the realms a few more centuries down the line.
The FR have an abundance of high-level (not to mention Epic) characters traipsing around, with spells and powers at their disposal that are far out of the reach of just about anyone in Eberron.
Warforged and changelings being 'core' races is not much of an argument. They're available as character races from level 1, that's all there's to it. Changelings have 1 first level spell at will as a Su ability, that's about the extent of their magic. That's not really much more than gnomes, drow, planetouched or a number of other races that are available at low level in most campaigns. The process of creating warforged (and most of the other highly magical inventions) is lost to the world, and anything approaching that level of knowledge and power an unattainable dream for anyone alive (or undead).
I have just heard that WoTC has reaquired Ravenloft. This is awesome! We need new books (Masque of the Jade Dragon, for example).
It also would be good if a new line of Ravenloft novels were written.
How many agree that Ravenloft should be fully supported by WoTC?
NO!
Don't get me wrong, Ravenloft is my favorite setting, but I'm not ready to start my collection of 3.0/3.5 books all over again. Look at what came out of this last version. 19 books, the core domains completely fleshed out, Darklords who actually deserve their curses and have decent ones as well. Domains became working lands and not single idea ponies. The setting was solidified as a true campaign setting (something started back in 2e), one that doesn't become a case of "get us out of here, Scooby!" It was an extremely good run.
If Wizards begins to support the setting they're going to start from scratch. They're going to start with a Core book and then start redetailing the Core of Ravenloft. Looking at what was just produced, what could they possibly give us. Masque of the Jade Dragon is lost to time, as while it was connected to the setting it was Arthaus product and Wizards did not get the manuscripts for works in progress.
I'd love to see novels though, but it's doubtful that we will. Wizards never gave the rights for those out and could have produced them the whole time, just like they do with Dragonlance. If they didn't put them out while the setting was going, it's doubtful that they'll do it now that it's out of print.
why did ww give up the linc.
Number of reasons. It was time to renegotiate the rights anyway, and they apparently decided not to.
They had finished describing the Core of Ravenloft and all that was left was the seas, clusters and islands. The Islands and Clusters are less likely to draw a large number of buyers since each is much more specialized than the Core domains (and each Core domain is quite specalized).
On top of the normal cost of writing and development for each book, they also had to pay for the rights. White Wolf has a number of d20 settings that are doing well and don't have this extra cost added on to them.
They've recently renewed the Warcraft line, this one to encompass the World of Warcraft game. That couldn't have been cheap.
Ravenloft was apparently doing well, but would have had extra cost to use since they were borrowing the rights. Future books weren't going to have the same draw as the others had and they had other series that might have been better to push their resources towards.
I'd rather they had kept producing them, as the books were quite good (with one or two exceptions). Wizards might sell the rights out again, but whoever buys it would have to start over again. With the depths that were imparted in this edition you'd be hard pressed to add anything to the Core.
That makes me wonder about another favorite setting of mine that I did get the chance to play in but never quite knew for sure what it was supposed to be of. The setting of Oriental Adventures...Kara-Tur...wasn't it simply a region on the default AD&D campaign world? Or was it its own complete world?
Originally, it was supposed to be it's own setting, but TSR have hinted it could be part of Oerth (Greyhawk world). Eventually, they changed their mind and attached Kara-Tur to Forgotten Realms, which seems reasonable.
The FR have an abundance of high-level (not to mention Epic) characters traipsing around, with spells and powers at their disposal that are far out of the reach of just about anyone in Eberron.
Eberron may not be high level, but it's still 'high magic'. It has all sorts of mystical creations like warforged running around as well as lots of clerics, wizards and so on. Magic is pretty much a facet of everyday life in Eberron, which pretty much makes it a high magic world on that alone.
Generally to qualify as a low magic setting you don't have wizards available in every town, you certainly can't go and buy spells or magical items at your local market and you don't have temples dotting the landscape with magical healing.
No! No spelljammer plz! You may as well just combine Star Wars RPG and Core D&D!
You do realize that if they print it (unlikely at best) that you are under no obligation to buy it, yes?
As for Eberron, it's high saturation of low level magic. High level magic in Eberron is actually more rare than in the Realms. And most of it what's still lying around is military grade stuff, often that PCs can't use at all (unless you're large enough to club people with artillary pieces).
The FR have an abundance of high-level (not to mention Epic) characters traipsing around, with spells and powers at their disposal that are far out of the reach of just about anyone in Eberron.
Warforged and changelings being 'core' races is not much of an argument. They're available as character races from level 1, that's all there's to it. Changelings have 1 first level spell at will as a Su ability, that's about the extent of their magic. That's not really much more than gnomes, drow, planetouched or a number of other races that are available at low level in most campaigns. The process of creating warforged (and most of the other highly magical inventions) is lost to the world, and anything approaching that level of knowledge and power an unattainable dream for anyone alive (or undead).
LOL and short of the final fantasy games the forgotten realms is about as high magic as you can get. And incidentally actually breaks many of the core rules about the levels of NPC's and spell and magic availability. The standard setting is greyhawk not forgotten realms precisely because the forgotten realms breaks so many rules.
Move to the Ravenloft board.
Since when is there a ravenloft board?
Ravenloft is something like a "Gothic Horror D&D fantasy" setting, which is like what? A niche of a niche perhaps, meaning is has probably not that large of a following (I know Ravenloft is quite popular, but Id guess it doesnt sell as well as Eberron or Forgotten Realms)
Speaking of which, Ravenloft doesnt seem to be very compatible with many deafault D&D products. In a setting (if you play it as such), where magic is in some places feared or unknown, where creatures like elves can be seen as monsters best be lynched or chased away, what do you do with a load of high-magic prestice classes or races like warforged with additional templates?
Ive noticed that, in order to keep the gothic feel of the place somewhat intact, many DMs seem to restrict the available races or classes in their campaigns even more so than the campaing setting says.
Also, in its current edition Ravenloft is D20, not D&D. While it has many, many things in common, there are some differences, regarding class abilities or magic for example. Not that those couldnt be worked around somehow, but I think that those points also clash (a bit) whith the philosopy behind D&D, compared to the Ravenloft setting.
In its latest incarnations, D&D seems to be about giving the player characters more and more power and options. This does in my opinion not sit well with a setting, where characters are restricted in some ways (e.g. how magic works and dark power´s checks; altered class abilities) to emphasize the tone of the place.
Anyway, I just think that Ravenloft would simply not be profitable enough to continue for WotC, at least in reagards of how much D&D supplements non-Ravenloft stuff they could sell to Ravenloft DMs/players. Eberron (and the Realms?) doesnt have the "if its D&D it fits in here" slogan for nothing. ;)
Of course, I could be totally wrong, Im just guessing.
"Gotta Catch 'em All!"
Oh well. Ravenloft's description is better left short. Maybe it might start (continue?) a new trend, along with Dark Sun...ORPG: Online Roleplaying Game. Or, OCM: Online Community Material. That is, be the first setting(s) to be community-fed...multinational, not just free house. Create and Divide are the keys...
Either way, let's not take Ravenloft to space...if you know what I'm sayin'.
Hmmm, I dont think WoTc is going to continue to series, as I cant see how it would be lucrative for them.
Ravenloft is something like a "Gothic Horror D&D fantasy" setting, which is like what? A niche of a niche perhaps, meaning is has probably not that large of a following (I know Ravenloft is quite popular, but Id guess it doesnt sell as well as Eberron or Forgotten Realms)
Speaking of which, Ravenloft doesnt seem to be very compatible with many deafault D&D products. In a setting (if you play it as such), where magic is in some places feared or unknown, where creatures like elves can be seen as monsters best be lynched or chased away, what do you do with a load of high-magic prestice classes or races like warforged with additional templates?
Ive noticed that, in order to keep the gothic feel of the place somewhat intact, many DMs seem to restrict the available races or classes in their campaigns even more so than the campaing setting says.
Also, in its current edition Ravenloft is D20, not D&D. While it has many, many things in common, there are some differences, regarding class abilities or magic for example. Not that those couldnt be worked around somehow, but I think that those points also clash (a bit) whith the philosopy behind D&D, compared to the Ravenloft setting.
In its latest incarnations, D&D seems to be about giving the player characters more and more power and options. This does in my opinion not sit well with a setting, where characters are restricted in some ways (e.g. how magic works and dark power´s checks; altered class abilities) to emphasize the tone of the place.
Anyway, I just think that Ravenloft would simply not be profitable enough to continue for WotC, at least in reagards of how much D&D supplements non-Ravenloft stuff they could sell to Ravenloft DMs/players. Eberron (and the Realms?) doesnt have the "if its D&D it fits in here" slogan for nothing. ;)
Of course, I could be totally wrong, Im just guessing.
True it not be as popular as forgotten realms or Ebberon. But they have done a lot of stuff for those, especially forgotten realms. And as someone else said on here once they get down to the complete "coffee cups of fearunn" and "house cats of eberron" they are gonna have to start supporting some other settings and having one with a different feel might not be a bad idea at all.
Does anybody know when the last Ravenloft book will be available online? Also where would one go to download it?
Sometime in September, here: http://www.white-wolf.com/ravenloft/
In short, don't expect anything more than token support of the setting from WotC. I'm sure everyone would love to see it supported, including the WotC staff, but it just isn't a good investment of the company's manpower.
WW did an awesome job with the line; I have more Ravenloft material now than I ever had before, and my collection spans less than half of the released WW materials.
What Ravenloft becomes now is a closed book: the information that exists, is out there. No constant development, no need to check your campaign against continuity, no fear of having a new supplement come out that invalidates your 5 year old campaign in progress. Not that these things have ever presented problems for me, as I recognize my authority in the games I run, but significantly less stress for new DMs picking up the setting.
I'd really like to see WotC maybe pick up and re-release updated forms of the classicks: House of Strahd/Castle Ravenloft, Adam's Wrath, and the like. Maybe one per year, released in September so a DM has plenty of time to fully read and adapt them for his Halloween night game.
Aside from the fact that White Wolf has a good amount of experience doing Gothic horror, they had their best artistic group working on the project. The artwork in the books is absolutely wonderful and perfect for the setting.
What I am hoping will happen is that WotC will at least deign to finish the Van Richten's Guide series, and bother themselves to do a halfway decent job at it.
The one thing that I think was done right the last time around was the novels, and I do hope that they have more of those written.
Morrigan
Madmen and psycho killers?
Aquatic or sea creatures?
Abberations, Ravenloft flavored?
I think there is more stuff we could do. Well, if the mists permits ...
Joël