Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 seker Sep 07, 2005 14:34:30	I know I have been quiet of late on my d20 modern, mainly due to some issues I had with the psionics system I was working on and some RL issues.... but I finally got the base systems done.... I am now working on the final steps of advanced classes, racial classes (which are base classes that are only available for their race, thus are 20 levels), actual spell list and converting the last of the 2nd edition psionic powers over. here is a sneak peak overview of the systems: (let me know what you think) Arcane magic: To be able to cast arcane spells one must have the appropriate feat to be able to cast spells. (Note only human, elves, and in a special limited extent halflings may take the feat to cast arcane spells. However certain mutated members of any race may also take the feat.) All characters have an arcane caster level, which is controlled by their levels in specific classes. (Each class has a low, medium, or high progression on arcane caster level.) The arcane caster level determines max spell level that may be memorized (1/2 arcane caster level) as well as the caster level for the effects of the spells. All arcane casting requires a specialized concentration check to gather the spell energy. All arcane casting requires memorized spells, which are forgotten when cast. The feat grants the ability to memorize a few spells (int modifier in spells) each day. The ability to memorize additional spells is only granted through taking levels in specific classes. Defiler and Preserver special Allegiances: All characters start as a preserver allegiance, however as they cast as a defiler they risk their allegiance shifting to defiler. While a preserver may choose to cast as a defiler, a defiler may not cast as a preserver. Types of arcane magic Sorcerer: A normal arcane caster gathers energy from plant life to power their spells. There is also an advanced class by this name that increases the number of spells that can be memorized per day. (Note the human racial class also increases the number of spells you can memorize per day, to signify the humans racial aptitude for sorcery.) Halfling magic: Halfling casters are limited in the form of spells they can cast, they have limited/no access to evocation and conjuration magic. They do however, excel at casting shadow and illusion magic. They cast as normal sorcerers other than this. Note, Halfling who take levels in the sorcerer class, the Halfling racial class, and the various advanced/prestige classes gain the additional number of memorized spells per day as normal. (Note some Halflings have been altered/mutated to allow them to cast as a normal caster, without the limitation on types of magic they can cast.) Dragon Magic: This is a specialized form of sorcery. It is only possible for masters of both magic and the way. This magic allows the caster to draw life energy from animal life instead of drawing from plant life. Note this requires a master-worked piece of obsidian to focus the life force through, and unless the obsidian is worked into a flawless orb, the magic only draws from those in contact with the obsidian. (Using an orb as the focus allows the caster to drain from all within a certain radius, which is controlled by the size of the orb used.) The drain to animal life is represented as Con ability burn. The caster of the spell may designate how much of their own life force they wish to use in the spell, however any additional drain is divided evenly amongst all other valid targets. The ability to use Dragon magic is granted through certain mutations. This mutation is automatically granted through the defiler metamorphosis spells but can be gained in other less well-known manners. “Shadow” sorcerer: The name is actually a misnomer, as a “shadow” sorcerer is actually an arcane caster that is able to use the energy of the sun to power their sorcery. Their name comes from the side effect of their drawing power from the sun. Their skin turns black as they gather the light into their body as no light is reflected back out for people to see. This ability may only be granted through a specialize mutation that requires the caster to have been modified. (Normally this would only be able to be done at the Pristine Tower or other such focal point.) A “shadow” sorcerer may choose to gather life energy as per a normal sorcerer. Necromant: Some few sorcerers have been changed to allow them to use the very essence of the dead to power their magic. Most casters that are able to use this power are either undead, or have been modified by an undead to grant them access to this power. This ability acts as a cross between normal sorcery and dragon magic system wise. If used normally the concentration check gathers energy due to the number of dead in the area. (Example a graveyard or ancient battle site would be considered “fertile” terrain.) However the caster, if they have a piece of master-worked obsidian, may attempt to drain undead in an area as a dragon does animal life. However in this case the ability burn is Charisma burn instead of Constitution burn. Cerulean Sorcerer: These rare sorcerers do not appear until after the creation of the cerulean storm, and are actually just sorcerers that have gained a link to the power of the storm itself. They are able to draw on the life energy stored within the storm as a normal sorcerer does plant life. This ability just requires study and practice, in the form of a special feat. The side effect of this feat is that the mind of the sorcerer is opened up more fully to the mind of the former king of Tyr, who is trapped within the storm. Divine magic: To be able to cast divine spells one must have the appropriate feat to be able to cast spells, as well as the appropriate divine allegiance to the source of your granted powers All characters have a divine caster level, which is controlled by their levels in specific classes. (Each class has a low, medium, or high progression on divine caster level.) The divine caster level determines max spell level that may be cast (1/2 divine caster level) as well as the caster level for the effects of the spells. All divine casters have spells known. These are broken up into allegiance known and personal known spells. Allegiance known spells are known spells you have just for having a specific divine allegiance, all characters with a divine allegiance have the same list of spells known. Personal known spells are gained through feats and taken levels in divine caster classes. Casting a divine spell is draining to the caster. Casting a divine spell costs the caster 2 vitality per spell level. (0 level spells cost 1 point of vitality) Divine Allegiances: There are 3 types of divine allegiances, Elemental, Spirit of the land, and Sorcerer Monarch. Normally a character may only have one divine allegiance, the only exception to this rule appears to be that a character with divine allegiance to the Sorcerer Monarch Hammanu may also have an allegiance to a Spirit of the land. If the character does not have a divine allegiance due to their starting occupation, the gaining of a divine allegiance may only be granted through play. Types of divine casters Elemental Cleric: requires the character to have an elemental divine allegiance. This is an advanced class available to all races. Primary gains are in spells known, turning undead, gating in element, and becoming immune to the effects of their patron element. Druid: requires the character to have a spirit of the land divine allegiance. This is an advanced class available to all races. Primary gains are in spells known, wildshaping, bonuses against natural dangers, and additional bonuses in the druids guarded lands. The guarded lands are the lands associated with the specific spirit of the land the druid has allegiance to. Templar: requires the character to have a sorcerer monarch as a divine allegiance. While this advanced class is technically available to all races, most templars are either humans or half elves. Primary gains are in spells known, turning/controlling undead, and secular authority within the lands of their Sorcerer Monarch. Psionics (based off a conversion of the 2nd edition psionics rules) All characters have a manifester level, which is controlled by their levels in specific classes. (Each class has a low, medium, or high progression on manifester level.) The manifester level determines which powers a character can use. To be able to use psionics a character needs either a wild talent, or levels in the psionicist base class. Wild talents are gained by taking the feat wild talent, or taking a starting occupation that includes a wild talent. (Note wild talents are rolled on the wild talent table, or chosen at GM’s choice.) Psionic powers are broken down into devotions, sciences, and high sciences. A character gains devotions and sciences as per advancement in the psionicist class, through the gaining of a wild talent, or through taking a feat. High sciences may only be gained through taking a feat. Many powers have prerequisites in the form of other sciences or devotions before they can be taken. Also all powers have a minimum manifester level. This minimum manifester level does not effect when a character can learn a power, just when they can use it. For instance a character could conceivably learn the disintegrate power at first level, however they would not be able to actually use it until their manifester level was high enough to meat the requirement. (This is important for wild talents as this allows the more powerful powers to be taken as wild talents, though it prevents them from being used until an appropriate level in the game.) The use of psionic powers uses vitality points to manifest. Many telepathic abilities require contact to work on a target, this is handled through psionic combat. (Mental BAB is equal to manifester level, and mental combat is handled using construct/harbringer rules.)
#2 Pennarin Sep 07, 2005 18:10:42	So you got rid of the necromant's direct link to the Gray, and the shadow wizard's link to the Black...hmm. It sure is different.
#3 seker Sep 07, 2005 22:00:54	So you got rid of the necromant's direct link to the Gray, and the shadow wizard's link to the Black...hmm. It sure is different. actually partiallly right.... on the necromants they are tapping the energy of the grey as it is the soul energy of the dead.... however, they need to be in a location that has a stronger link to the grey to tap into it. I did this for several reason, first balance, and second flavor..... in places like the obsidian plane the sheer level of death that occurred there makes the entire plane basically a fertile or better area for drawing on the grey. Also I look at the living creatures/plants actually hampering the flow of grey energy, so you have an easier link to the gray in places of death like the dragons bowl, than places like the forest ridge.... makes necromants more of an opposite for the standard preservers/defilers. Also note necromants CANNOT use normal plant/animal life in this method any more, as they are changed to allow them to draw power from the dead and souls. The shadow sorcerers are linked to the black but they do not draw energy from there. In the novels and the write ups of the Black, it is the absence of all. And drains life, heat, sun etc into the Black, it does not grant power. From this, my view is that by linking a creature to the black..... they basically have an endless hunger that draws the energy through them to the Black. They can use some of this energy that they are drawing into the Black to cast spells, BUT it is not the Black powering their magic it is the Sun. Normal sorcerers are not strong enough to draw from a source so far away.... however with the Black enhancing the draw they can pull from the most powerful source of life energy. (note I am also working up a few feats for those who have the power of shadow sorcerers..... like the ability to drain the magic out of spells that are casts, ie what Sadira did in the 3rd novel.) Note Sadira is more than just a shadow sorcerer in my system..... part of the chosen template in my system allows for "signature" spells.... and that is part of what Sadira was made into.... a form of champion, though not as powerful as the original Champions of Rajaat.
#4 nytcrawlr Sep 07, 2005 22:19:06	Eh, not the path I was expecting at all, at least on the arcane side, didn't bother with psionics cause I lost interest at that point. Really don't like the fact that everyone is a potential arcane caster, while I'm ok with everyone being a potential manifester. Ah well, back to what I was doing I guess, although I think the way I am going is even more complicated. We'll see I guess.
#5 seker Sep 07, 2005 22:32:53	Eh, not the path I was expecting at all, at least on the arcane side, didn't bother with psionics cause I lost interest at that point. Really don't like the fact that everyone is a potential arcane caster, while I'm ok with everyone being a potential manifester. Actually not everyone can be arcane spellcasters..... in fact I made it extremely limited. Only humans, half elves, elves, Muls, and to a limited extent halflings can even become arcane spellcasters...... without taking mutations. The mutation rules are optional rules at character creation, and even then requires the taking of the feat New Race (which may only be taken at first level, and the drawbacks are actually worse than the bonuses.) to be able to take it at all. (and then you have to use up almost the max number of mutation points to gain the ability for arcane casting.) Which means a race that is not of one of the ones listed above litterally cannot be an arcane caster at 1st level. After character creation, the only ways to gain the mutation that allows you to be an arcane caster are either by being modfied by a epic level spell, or getting extremely lucky on an incident at the pristine tower. This matches up with the rules in the original rule sets and the novels on who can use sorcery. On divine magic, it is granted so it is a matter of gaining the divine allegiance before you can do anything.
#6 nytcrawlr Sep 07, 2005 22:45:48	Actually not everyone can be arcane spellcasters..... in fact I made it extremely limited. Only humans, half elves, elves, Muls, and to a limited extent halflings can even become arcane spellcasters...... without taking mutations. Well sure, and if I am reading this correctly, that just means that *all* humans, half elves, elves, Muls, and to a limited extent halflings are potential spellcasters at 1st level, no matter what class they take and this keep progressing somewhat with each class. That's my issue with it. Arcane should be a quite a bit rougher than that IMO.
#7 seker Sep 07, 2005 23:00:49	Well sure, and if I am reading this correctly, that just means that *all* humans, half elves, elves, Muls, and to a limited extent halflings are potential spellcasters at 1st level, no matter what class they take and this keep progressing somewhat with each class. That's my issue with it. Arcane should be a quite a bit rougher than that IMO. Yeah if they take a feat they have the potential to gain the spellcasting..... however the feat has an rp requirement if not taken at first level. Note this feat only gives them the potential to cast spells, they still need a spellbook, etc.... Note unlike psionics which you can take with either a feat or class at first level, and on the divine casting which there are starting occupations that give you the feat.... there are NO ways to gain the arcane spellcasting feat for free..... you have to spend a feat to get it.... that is the only way. And other that the human and halfling racial classes, and the sorcerer advanced class, there is no other classes I have worked up so far that gives full arcane caster progression. And only the psionicist and elf racial classes give medium progression.... all others give low progression..... which is the same rate as a wizard on gaining BAB.
#8 nytcrawlr Sep 07, 2005 23:08:11	Well that was weird, guess my last post didn't take. Anyways, I re-read it. Where I was getting confused is the fact that all those races can draw energy based on their classes, but can't cast spells without a certain feat, which I find a bit weird, but that's d20 Modern mechanics when it comes to supernatural powers like magic and psionics for you I guess.
#9 seker Sep 07, 2005 23:09:15	Well sure, and if I am reading this correctly, that just means that *all* humans, half elves, elves, Muls, and to a limited extent halflings are potential spellcasters at 1st level, no matter what class they take and this keep progressing somewhat with each class. That's my issue with it. Arcane should be a quite a bit rougher than that IMO. Yeah if they take a feat they have the potential to gain the spellcasting..... however the feat has an rp requirement if not taken at first level. Note this feat only gives them the potential to cast spells, they still need a spellbook, etc.... Note unlike psionics which you can take with either a feat or class at first level, and on the divine casting which there are starting occupations that give you the feat.... there are NO ways to gain the arcane spellcasting feat for free..... you have to spend a feat to get it.... that is the only way. And other that the human and halfling racial classes, and the sorcerer advanced class, there is no other classes I have worked up so far that gives full arcane caster progression. And only the psionicist and elf racial classes give medium progression.... all others give low progression..... which is the same rate as a wizard on gaining BAB.
#10 seker Sep 07, 2005 23:11:49	Well that was weird, guess my last post didn't take. Anyways, I re-read it. Where I was getting confused is the fact that all those races can draw energy based on their classes, but can't cast spells without a certain feat, which I find a bit weird, but that's d20 Modern mechanics when it comes to supernatural powers like magic and psionics for you I guess. got a stupid double post..... actually I did not post very clearly..... the top portion was base rules of the magic the lower portions were the specific subtypes..... it will be clearer in the actual writeups, this is just the basis behind it.... I should probably clean it up a bit tommorrow
#11 nytcrawlr Sep 07, 2005 23:27:17	got a stupid double post..... Yeah, I think they are doing some board maintenance, that's the message I got when I tried posting last anyways and it didn't take. actually I did not post very clearly Ok, yeah, probably should wait till I see the whole thing before I comment way or the other. I at least like what you are trying to do, just not seeing the full picutre yet.
#12 nytcrawlr Oct 12, 2005 13:10:56	I want more! Give me more! :D
#13 kalthandrix Oct 12, 2005 13:26:46	I want more! Give me more! :D BACK DOG!!! Someone get out the hose or a big stick :D
#14 nytcrawlr Oct 12, 2005 13:30:57	BACK DOG!!! Someone get out the hose or a big stick :D The hose works. I need a good rinse off.
#15 kalthandrix Oct 12, 2005 13:37:03	The hose works. I need a good rinse off. You dirty, dirty, ummm, lizard-like thingy you! :P
#16 Pennarin Oct 12, 2005 17:34:52	What Seker has showned me of late looks very good, its insanely tied together and streamlined, rules and fluff working together like they never really did for DS. Kudos Seker!
#17 ruhl-than_sage Oct 12, 2005 17:42:25	What Seker has showned me of late looks very good, its insanely tied together and streamlined, rules and fluff working together like they never really did for DS. Kudos Seker! Really.... interesting :D . You'll have to share this stuff with the rest of us, Seker.
#18 nytcrawlr Oct 12, 2005 19:47:30	Really.... interesting :D . You'll have to share this stuff with the rest of us, Seker. Ahmen. Hopefully he didn't kill the initial six classes too much, I really like those classes, hehe.
#19 seker Oct 14, 2005 6:57:12	Sorry I have been so quiet of late.... I have been working on alot of stuff and have not had time to check the boards. What Pennarin is talking about is that my project keeps expanding. I have gotten it to the point that I am literally writing an alternate players handbook. Note the Alternate players handbook I am writing is not just for Dark Sun, and in fact it is based off a campaign world I have been working on for over 18 years now.... but the entire system is perfect to fit the fluff. (on the other campaign world I will not say too much other than the only other system in the past that I could get to remotely work on it to run games, was Torg.) So if it takes a bit longer to get it finnished dont bite my head off.... :P okay I will be doing more previews later today, but wanted to get something out of the way..... in doing this I am going to have to sacrifice a few sacred cows from D&D, though they are not ones from Darksun..... just warning you up front. Also many of the changes I am having to make were caused by looking at the epic rules, specifically epic spellcasting ..... making me have to do a total revamp on some basic parts of the magic system from D20..... I am actually integrating the epic spellcasting system into the actual game instead of it being an addon. I will post the basics of the revised magic and how it works (system wise).... plus some basics on the classes and such later today.
#20 seker Oct 14, 2005 8:25:40	Let’s start with the basics…. There is no more divine and arcane magic in my system. It is instead broken up into 3 types: Learned, Granted, and Innate. I know that the learned and granted seem very similar at first glance to arcane and divine but the differences are rather important for balance and fluff. The first two are actually spellcasting magic forms, (and both share the same “caster” level.) while the third is actually spell-like abilities. All magic uses magical energy, Essence. A spell requires 1 essence/spell level of the spell to cast it. (Epic spells are a special case, as they require Essence equal to the spellcraft DC to cast.) Each type of magic differs in how you gain the Essence for the magic. Here is a breakdown of each and its place in Athas: Learned: This is the power of sorcery in Darksun. You must gather life force energy for this type of magic. (Essence) This is magic that is performed through practice and study. There are two methods of casting in this system. Ritual casting: Anyone with the arcane training feat may do this. It allows a character with a spellbook to cast a spell from a spellbook and gather the energy using a concentration check. (Every 5 points of the gather/concentration check allows the caster to gather 1 essence,) To cast a spell in this manner requires a spellcraft check and if successful the spell is cast. Note this takes long periods of time, normally 10 minutes/spell level. (There is no limit to the number of spells you can cast per day like this, save for the actual time constraints on the spells, though the max level of the spells is still limited by your caster level.) Readied Spells: This is the classic memorized magic from D&D. This is basically the same as ritual casting save the casting completes all save the final portion of the spell and holds it ready to be cast with the final aspect by “quickening” it. Slots for readying spells are ONLY provided by additional feats and class levels. You still need to gather the essence for the spell as per ritual casting, but the casting time is as per normal for the spell instead of the longer ritual time period. Granted: This represents the casters who are granted their power from an external source…. Ie clerics, druids, templars, etc.. The casters have known spells and they channel energy from their patron to cast the spells. Known spells: They get a base set that is granted by their Patron Allegiance, which will normally be 2 spells of each level that they can cast, that are set. In addition they can gain additional known spells through taking feats or levels in the appropriate classes. Casting spells: A Granted caster can cast any spell they have known at any time by channeling the power of their Patron. The strain of doing so causes the caster 2 vitality damage/spell level that cannot be prevented. Innate: In Darksun this represents those rare individuals that have been linked to an alternate source, ie the Sun/The Black (in cases of the Shadow Giants and the like) or The Grey (in the case of Undead), and are able to use this source to power certain powers/abilities. The primary aspect of this magic type is that they have a pool of Essence, that replenishes each round, unless they are separated from their source. So literally, Innates can shift their essence between their abilities each round to use what powers they want of those they have available. Innates are closer to warlocks or creatures with spelllike abilities than casters. The true power of this magic system comes into play when characters choose to merge types of magic with each other or psionics. (Which can only be done by taking a prestige class, which allow you to merge the power types.) Here are examples: Learned/Psionics: This is the classic Dragon/Avangion style, by using psionics as a focus the character learns to tap stronger sources of life energy to be able to gather essence much faster for epic spells. Dragons cause Con burn damage to all animal life in their drain radius, and so gains 1 essence per point of Con burn caused. Avangions learn to tap into hidden wells within themselves and to regenerate their Con in response. Granted/Psionics: This allows the cleric or druid to use psionics to alter their body to be able to better handle the strain of the casting of epic spells, so that they take far less damage. As well as eventually transforming the body of the character into a more compatible form. Learned/Granted: This method is normally only taken by templars in Darksun. Allows a character to power his Learned readied spells using their granted power. Which gives them much more flexability in casting. Learned/Innate: Allows the caster to use their internal Essence stores to power their spellcasting. Examples would be Shadow/Sun Wizards and Necromants. The concept of a Granted/Innate is possible in my other campaign world but not something I was exploring in the Dark sun portion.
#21 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Oct 14, 2005 8:48:10	Sorry I have been so quiet of late.... I have been working on alot of stuff and have not had time to check the boards. What Pennarin is talking about is that my project keeps expanding. I have gotten it to the point that I am literally writing an alternate players handbook. I've resembled that remark. Note the Alternate players handbook I am writing is not just for Dark Sun, and in fact it is based off a campaign world I have been working on for over 18 years now.... but the entire system is perfect to fit the fluff. (on the other campaign world I will not say too much other than the only other system in the past that I could get to remotely work on it to run games, was Torg.) Ahh, the alternate Player's Handbook I'm woriting is specifically just for my Dark Sun campaigns. My current project is retrofitting your beloved Mutation rules into being a functionable, workable mechanic for the New Races. I'm about 70% completed with it, when I'm done, I'll drop them up on my site for people to see.
#22 seker Oct 14, 2005 9:03:17	Ahh, the alternate Player's Handbook I'm woriting is specifically just for my Dark Sun campaigns. My current project is retrofitting your beloved Mutation rules into being a functionable, workable mechanic for the New Races. I'm about 70% completed with it, when I'm done, I'll drop them up on my site for people to see. Heh.... whereas I totally rebuilt that mutation system to something else as well.... the old one I had was built directly off of Wizards d20 modern. I broke it down into several sets of mutation now and rebuilt each significantly. (Each set of mutations with their own set of flaws which are used to offest the costs.) I also have certain advanced/prestige classes which grant mutations at certain levels. Cosmetic mutations = humans may takes these and flaws to offset at 1st level. Others may get them through modifications during game. Physcial mutations = These are the more specific mutations that the New Races and the like have.... much more powerful than cosmetic mutations. (this is also part of what happens to advanced beings on the metamorphosis in my systems.) Arcane Mutations = these are extremely rare and can only be caused through epic spells, or specific locations. (ie the steeple of crystals in the pristine tower, and the like) These are what are required to gain the Innate magic type in darksun by my new rules.... ie Sadira at the Pristine tower One of the important parts about the dragon metamorphosis and the like being a form of mutation has to do with the way I am working on Avangions..... one of the abilities of the Avangions I am toying with for later on in my system is the ability/spell that allows the Avangion to restore a creature to their rebirth race type. Ie a human with a series of mutations would lose them all and become a "pure" human. In response I am working on Dragon based abilities/spells that allows for the "evolution" of mutation on targets. Ie that they can further the mutation of a creature.