Alexis
again sorry....
Plus all those found at the end of every one out of two Dragon Magazine issue since the release of Unearthed Arcana...
You mean...flaws like those found under Character Flaws in Unearthed Arcana, Chapter 3: Building Characters? :P
Plus all those found at the end of every one out of two Dragon Magazine issue since the release of Unearthed Arcana...
:heehee true, but her system is a bit more complicated and more customizable. The flaw systems presented for D&D already are in trade for feats only. I must say I like the idea of using them to garner skill points, but with the release of the XPH you can do that through feats anyway.
Now, increasing Stats, Spell Slots, and BAB are an original inclusion into the flaw system
, though I don't think I would use that part personally.Here we go boys and girls, me again, daring to tread where DnD has ne'er tread before. Thats right, an adaption of the flaw system from the Hero Games 5th Edition for D20, yes I know that flaws have here-to-fore not been seen in DnD but it was something I have always liked. I ask you, my fellows, to rip it apart and help me balance this mess that is in its earliest stages.
Help me to balance (in the fact that it will add to PC's regardless but we dont want it adding to them too much) the sepdning point system, and help critique me on the flaws themselves.
You've played White Wolf Games right? The merits and flaws system from those games could be easily adapted to be used for D&D. If you have acess to those books I would recommend looking through them for ideas.
I know that many of you will abhor the very idea of adding flaws, and build points to DnD as its like adding a +1ecl or so to a character without the experience hit, but, the balance comes in the use of the flaws themselves, and in the fact that once I finish the buy off system they will have an Exp cost to buy them off. FUN huh?!?!?!?! LOL.
I've got no problem with the idea at all, though we may disagree on some of the issues of implimentation. For instance, it seems unbalancing to allow an flat increase to BAB, because the whole system of prerequisites for PrCs is base on it. If you can take an increase to BAB, then you can qualify for PrCs before you should be able to. Stat increases are at a premium too, but I suppose one or two points isn't going to make a world of difference.
1. No character can take more than 60 pts in flaws
2. Flaw build points can be spent in the following manner.
-5 pts will buy you 3 hit points as per the Feat Toughness, these stack with other bonuses such as the ones gained from the feat, but this build option can only be taken up to 2 times at character creation, yielding an extra max of 6hps.
-10 pts will buy you 5 skill points, to be used on any in class or cross class skills you choose at their normal costs.
-20 pts will purchase a +1 BaB for your character, signifying a better overall skill in combat.
-20 pts can also buy a spellcaster 1 extra spell slot, which will always float at his highest lvl spell slot.
-25 pts will purchase you a Feat, selected as any feat is, from the ones whose pre-reqs you meet, and is available to you.
-30 pts will purchase you a +1 to any stat, not to be driven over starting character racial maxima.
It looks like all of your totals for costs, and further below, for points gained are in multiples of 5. In think that makes calcualting the totals little more complicated for no reason, go with the smallest common denominator, that is:
1 pt. for 3hp
2 pts. for 5 skill points
4 pts. for BAB or Extra Spell Slot
5 pts. for Bonus Feat
6 pts. for +1 bonus to stat
I must note that i find it odd that the cost of an increased BAB bonus or extra spell slot would be lower than that of a bonus feat. Also your cost for skill points seems generously low if you consider what a feat can get you in terms of skill points. That being said, I actually agree with the low cost. I always thought the skill point system in 3rd ed was stiffling for character backgrounds. If you play a character with a low intelligence and only 2+Int mod skill points per level (like a fighter, cleric, or sorcerer) then you start with almost no skill points, and aren't going to be able to spend any on things to flesh out your characters background like ranks in profession or craft, or maybe a cross class skill to represent unique childhood expiriences.
I'll look over the specific flaws you've come up with later, when I have more time.
Thanks for bringing this topic up :D
To Sage- yes I too feel that the spending system needs to be revamped, but thats why I posted here, and asked that my fellows help me revamp it.
To the person who suggested alot lower mathematics based on the increments of 5, I translated this system from Hero Games 5th Edition using the point system that was used in the 5th Edition book, to revamp the expenditures down would mean revamping the values of all flaws, and as I said this system is in what I would dub an alpha phase.
To anyone who wishes to aid me in refining this system (not for trading it in with another system like the Unearthed Arcana, which btw Pennarin I did not know existed lol) please drop me a line at [email]RatQueen088@gmail.com[/email] or at [email]Rat_queen088@yahoo.com[/email] or post here on the boards, seeing as how I did not receive the overwhelming disapproval I feared, I am hopeful I can turn this into something people can enjoy.
Thanks for the feedback and I hope to hear some great ideas from the people on the only board I visit.
Alexis
[...] another system like the Unearthed Arcana, which btw Pennarin I did not know existed lol
Ahh! ;)
...
But its not funny anymore: it was funny only as long as the possibility existed that you did know UA had flaws but had forgotten!! :DI'm a sadist, ignore me.
[i]Before I go into the myriad of ways to flesh out your character utilizing the followng rules, I would like to first explain how these can benefit your character, so as to help you understand why I chose to add something unseen in DnD games before now. This thread has been reformatted due to input I received about it by experiment and with advise on the forums here. Some things changed include value of expenditures and points gained have been reduced by their lowest common denominator, % rolls have been modified to represent the original concept behind heroes die rolls being that its the rarity of the needed combinations instead of a percentage so now 30% became 22 as its kinda rare (infrequent) to roll a 2 or less on both dice. Also I have changed my stance on after character creation flaw allowance, if it comes up in game play then the player should be allowed to get the flaw for it since that is in the spirit of this flaw systems parent system. I have also added and modified some bonuses in the gainage system. I would like to thank all who pm'd me and replied here. As well as my players. I think the system is in the spirit of what I desired and the spirit of its original form. May you enjoy its use if it interests you as much as we do, for those fo you who have enjoyed playing Hero 5th ed, this is a fresh face on a flaw system you already know. For the forum readers I spaced it out and formatted it, AGAIN and still it will not settle in right....
1- The points garnered from flaws can be directly spent in bettering your lvl1 character, characters may receive more flaws at the GM discretion via gameplay. Trading in flaw points can get you extra skills, extra feats, extra hp's, an extra spell slot or even stat points to allocate.
2- As a story driving character fleshing tool, every person, even great heroes have their flaws, and sometimes these flaws motivate or move the story, or even help in character development making your character more realistic and unique.
Now I will begin to describe and explain certain things about flaws.
1. No character can take more than 12 pts in flaws
2. Flaw build points can be spent in the following manner.
-1 pts will buy you 3 hit points as per the Feat Toughness, these stack with other bonuses such as the ones gained from the feat, but this build option can only be taken up to 2 times at character creation, yielding an extra max of 6hps.
-2 pts will buy you 5 skill points, to be used on any in class or cross class skills you choose at their normal costs.
-4 pts will purchase you a Feat, selected as any feat is, from the ones whose pre-reqs you meet, and is available to you.
-5 pts can also buy a spellcaster 1 extra spell slot, which will always float at his highest lvl spell slot.
-6 pts will purchase you a +1 to any stat, not to be driven over starting character racial maxima.
Now come the flaws-
Dependance:
A character with this flaw is dependant on a certain substance. If he cannot get it he suffers negative effects, possibly even injury or death. This flaw is used to simulate drug addictions, other chemical dependencies and the like. A dependencies severity is dependant on how hard the substance is to obtain, how much the character suffers from not having it, and how soon the character begins to suffer from lack of the substance.
Dependence
Value Substance Is
1 Verycommon Easy to obtain
2 Common Difficult to Obtain
3 Uncommon Very Difficult to Obtain
Value Effect
+0 No dmg the character is merely extremely irrataable (-2 to social rolls)
+1 Dmg- 1d2 Hp per time increment
+2 Dmg- 1d4 Hp per time increment
+3 Dmg- 1d6 Hp per time increment
+1 Characters abilities suffer a -1 to all rolls
+2 Characters abilities suffer a -2 to all rolls
+1 Incompetance- Character suffers a -4 to spot, listen,
search, bluff diplomacy, sense motive, and spellcraft/psicraft rolls
+3 Weakness-Character suffers a loss of 2 pts to Str,Dex and
Con per time increment
Value Time Increment before suffering effects
+3 20 Minutes
+2 1 Hour
+1 6 Hours
+0 1 Day
-1 1 Week
-2 1 Month
Distincitve Feature:
A character with this flaw has some readily identifiable marking, scarring or tattoo, that is difficult to hide and sets them out in normal society as easilly identifiable.
Distinctive Features
Value Concealability
1 Easilly concealed using disguise skill DC10
2 Concealable using disguise skill DC15
3 Not concealable
Value Reaction
+0 Feature is noticed and recognizible
+1 Feature is always noticed and causes major reactions or predjudice
+2 Feature causes extreme reactions such as abject fear, unabiding
lust utter disgust, etc.
Value Sensing
-0 Feature is discernible by normal means of observation(sight,sound)
-1 Feature is only discernible through abstract means (smell, touch,taste)
-2 Feature is only discernible through detection and or equivalent spells
or powers.
Enraged/Berserk:
A character with this flaw has a volatile temper kept barely under wraps, one that threatens to fly loose in dangerous or high tension situations. The character must specifiy the circumstances that can cause his/her rage and how easilly said situation sets off the character. Also the player must choose wether this is a rage or a berserk, the difference being in the ability to distinguish friend from foe. This flaw differs from Barbarian rage in that it yields no bonuses, just an anger and uncontrolled rage that demand bloodshed.
Enraged/Berserk
Value Circumstance
1 Uncommon Circumstance
2 Common Circumstance
3 Very Common Circumstance
+2 Berserk (cannot tell friend from foe)
+3 Character must be angry or in combat to begin with for
DC 30 enraged to possibly occur
Value Chance to avoid becoming Enraged
+0 Will save DC10
+1 Will save DC15
+2 Will save DC20
Value Chance to recover
+0 Will save DC10
+1 Will save DC15
+2 Will save DC20
Hunted:
A character with this flaw is pursued by someone, or a group of someones. The hunter may show up during an adventure and attempt to do something to the character, this can range from monitoring the character's activities, to interrogation of the character, to capturing him, to killing him. the character ay or may not know if he is hunted, a choice belonging to him, with the GM's approval. A hunteds value depends on three factors. First how capable, competant, and dangerous the hunter is. How often the hunter tends to show up in the course of games, and what the hunter intends to do to the character. The GM rolls hunteds at the beginning of the game session and then chooses when and how they appear if a hunted is rolled.
Hunted
Value Capabilities
1 Hunter is less powerful than PC
2 Hunter is as powerful as PC
3 Hunter is more powerful than PC
+1 The hunter has extensive non combat influence
-1 The hunter is limited to a cetain geographical area
+1 PC has a public identity or is otherwise easy to find
Value Appearance (d100 roll)
+0 22% (occassionally)
+1 44% (frequently)
+2 66% (very frequently)
Value Motivation
-2 Watched; the hunter is ordered to merely watch the PC
-1 Mildly Punish; the hunter intends to punish the character
mildly such as as deportation, fining, questioning,
or theft of posessions
-0 Severely Punish; The hunter intends to do the PC serious
harm the PC or kill them
Phsyical Limitation:
A character with this flaw is in some way physically limited, such as being blind, or having a weak leg, the actual value of the flaw is based on how often it impairs of limits the characters ability to accomplish things and how badly it impairs them.
Physical Limitation
Value Limitation Occurs
1 Infrequently
5 Frequently
3 All the Time
Value Limitation Impairs the PC
+0 Slightly -1 to pertanent rolls
+1 Greatly -2 to pertanent rolls
+2 Fully, complete lack of use or -4 or greater to pertanent
rolls
Psychological Limitation:
A charater with this flaw has a mental quirk or impairment regarding a given situation, the following are all acceptable uses for this flaw
1) Moral codes of conduct- such as code of honor, code against killing or code of chivalry
2) Fears and hatreds- such as fear of heights, cramped spaces, or open spaces, fear of foreigners, criminals, or the
government, and so forth.
3) Personality traits or compulsions- Things such as compulsions, overconfidence, loves and so on.
Psychological Limitation
Value Situation Is
1 Uncommon
2 Common
3 Very Common
Value Intensity will save vs DC 20
+0 Moderate: +5 to save
+1 Strong: Will save normal
+2 Total: Will save -5
Reputation:
A character with this flaw is viewed in an unfavorable light, people may know something about them if they recognize them, a reputation is never a good thing, and should not be abused as being such, sample reputations include; the man who butchered an entire villae, a known slaver, the leader of a rebellious group attempting to overthrow the monarchy, etc.
Reputation
Value Recognized
1 Somtimes (Int roll DC 20)
2 Frequently (Int rol DC 15)
3 Almost Always (Int roll DC 10)
+1 Reputation is extreme in nature
-1 Reputation is only known to a
limited population
Rivalry:
A character with this flaw is engrossed in a not so friendly rivalry, wether professional, romantic, or both, with another character, the character will always attempt to outdo his rival. The extent to which he will go to outdo his rival is dependant on the strenght of the rivalry in question.
Rivalry
Value Rivalry Situation
1 Professional or romantic rival
2 Professional and romantic rival
Value Rival's Power or Authority
-1 Rival is less powerful than character or is in an inferior
position
+1 Rival is more powerful than character or is in a superior
position
+2 Rival is signifigantly more powerful than character or is in a
very superior position
+1 Rival is a player character
Value Fierceness of Rivalry
+0 Character seeks to outdo, embarrass, or humiliate rival
+1 Character seeks to harm or kill rival
Value Knowledge of Rivalry
-1 Rival is unaware of rivalry
+0 Rival is aware of rivalry
Social Limitation:
A character with this flaw is somehow socially limited, restricted or more difficult or dangerous than usual. Examples include keeping an important or dark secret, being well-known or famous, being a released prisoner, or belonging to a disfavored religeon or minority group. If the limitation is not limited in some societies or social groups is is inherantly worth less. The value of this flaw depends on how often and how restrictive the social limitation is to the character.
This flaw shares some some similarities with the flaws Reputation, Distinctive Features, and Hunted, the gm and player should work together to figure out the flaw that best represents the player's desired flaw.
Social Limitation
Value Circumstances Occur (d100 roll)
1 22% (occassionally)
2 44% (frequently)
3 66% (very frequently)
Value Effects of Restrictions
+0 Minor: an inconvenience that bears little chance of danger,
that which is lost can be restored.
+1 Major: risk of potential harm or extreme inconvenience, that
that which is lost can be restored with great difficuclty.
+2 Severe: risk of death or extreme injury.
that which is lost cannot be restored.
-1 Social Limitation is not limiting in some cultures or societies
Susceptibility:
A character with this flaw suffers damage from a seemingly benign substance that would otherwise deal no damage to normal normal people. The value of the Susceptibility is dependant on how frequently the character is likely to encounter the damaging object or effect, how much damage the character takes from his bane, and how quickly he takes the damage.
Susceptibility
Value Condition Is
1 Uncommon
2 Common
3 Very Common
Value Damage Taken Every
+0 1 time, instantly, no following dmg.
+2 Round, on characters initiative
+1 Minute
+0 5 minutes
-1 20 minutes
-2 Hour
Value Number of Dice
+0 None; irritation -3 to all physical related rolls taken once
and stays til character is away from susceptibility for 1 turn.
+1 1d3
+2 1d4
+3 1d6
+4 1d8
Vulnerability:
A character with this flaw suffers greater damage than normal from a particular attack form. The value is based on how common the attack form is and how much extra damage the character takes. The GM has final say on the commonality of the attack in his or her campaign.
Vulnerability
Value The Attack is
1 Uncommon
2 Common
3 Very Common
Value Vulnerability Extra Dmg
+0 The character takes an extra 2 pts of dmg from the attack
+1 The character takes an extra 1d6 dmg from the attack
+2 The character takes an extra 2d6 dmg from the attack
+3 The character takes an extra 1d6 dmg from the attack but ALWAY suffers maximum dmg.
A note on Flaws;
Gamemasters should note that players who opt to use flaw build points may end up about the equivalent of a level or so higher, this does not add to their ecl it merely makes it so that the GM must take into account this fact, a group of well designed flaw built characters at lvl 1 could conceivably attempt CR2 creatures with little difficulty. As such the GM has final say as to wether or not to allow them in the first place, but if used correctly they can add a third dimension to two dimensional characters.
There it is folks the finished porduct, I hope someone else gets a kick out of trying it. Its working out rather nice in my games and suddenly my players dont want such perfect people, which is a blast in Dark Sun, oh the things I can do with a hunted character who has an addiciton, May the piles of flaming kank dung not rain down upon my head (hey I liked my kank dung closer in the original so
)Alexis
I am not trying to hybridize DnD I am trying to bring something I find very fulfilling (disadvantages which make players seem more realistic) to a game I love.
Irregardless I did this for a couple reasons, the disadvantage system I bastardized was very flexible, and I did not know of the one in UA.
If ya don't like it fine, but try looking at it from a perspective other than hybridization, Ill probably use something akin to this to build a flaw system that rather than being stemmed from a point based system has a detailed list of flaws stemmed from DnD's own systems.
But for now, for people who enjoy flaws and flexibility, this could work.
Alexis
I have tinkered around with various D&D/WoD system hybrids, in the past but haven't gotten very far with them. For awhile I was trying to make a system with the feel of D&D, but using a rules system almost entirely derived from WoD, then Exhalted came out and stole the fire out from under me.
I do have some ideas for adapting D&D into a point based system, partially based on the old Skills & Powers rules.
Essentially, classes become more free-form. The various basic components of a class are given point values and per level maxiums and minimums. These are the components: Skills points per level, BAB, Saving Throws, Special Abilities, Hit Die, Weapons and Armor Proficiency. Set classes are used for reference, and as archetypes, but are essentially thrown out the window. Expirience points are gained in much smaller number to coinside with the point costs of the various components. The consept of levels in retained to maintain balance within the D&D system, but you don't have to wait until you have gained a levels worth of expirience points before reaping the benefit of expirience. Levels are merely used as a benchmark to maintain character balance through the systems of minimums and maximums.
Sadly Jon posted at a time where I was in an extreme state of annoyance. Due to Comcast's inability to provide a working service. I have been unable to be online half the days of the week. And at night my intermittant service grows even more annoying, sure I can browse but if I do more than browse, like usage of any chat system, or playing of any games onine, my service goes pop.
Also Sage, I am working on both the Life-touched concepts based on the fluff sent to me by Lyric and you, as well as working on info for the GotFR project. Sadly I have alot of frustration with my net service going on, and so I am not putting in the time I would like. I will however be getting some roughs to you within a week or so.
Alexis
Jon I am unsure wether you meant what you said as an insult or in a sarcastic way
Neither. I was intrigued by the idea and wanted to know if others had come up with other hybrid systems. Sorry for not responding earlier. I've been working 50+ hour weeks lately.
No ill blood. I hope that clears up any misconceptions on your part.
I dont want to change DnD too much what I wanted to do was add something I find to flesh out characters, flaws, to the game that started it all for me way back when I was 8 yrs old.
Thanks maybe Ill work on something with Ruhl-than and we can come up with a hybridization reminisce of players options back in 2nd ed. Somehow keep the flavor of DnD but add some more individuality.(not my idea originally I only thought of it when I read Sage's post in this thread)
Again sorry for taking it out of context, taking it out of context from a High Templar no less made me a bit hackle raised and defensive.
Alexis