Ambassadorial Errors!

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Cthulhudrew

Sep 14, 2005 20:13:15
Just noticed this today while reading over the Minrothad Gazetteer. On the first page of Gaz9, there is a brief blurb of intro from Gheryn Verdier, the Minrothad Ambassador to Karameikos. The problem is that Gaz1 already established Aladan Voll as the Minrothad Ambassador to Karameikos, and he had been in that position for 6 years. Given that both Gaz's are set in 1000 AC, that seems to be an oversight.

Solutions? Possibly A) There is more than one ambassador- I don't know if this is a likely thing or not, though, not being that familiar with embassy protocol. B) Gheryn is the previous ambassador (prior to Aladan) but retains the title as an honorific (like ex-presidents are still called president); though I don't think this is standard protocol either, c) something happened to Aladan Voll between the publication of Gaz1 and 9.

Any other thoughts?
#2

Hugin

Sep 14, 2005 21:25:18
I was thinking about ambassadors just the other day for the campaign (NOT the cigars! :D ). I needed a Karameikian ambassador to Darokin for the PCs to contact.

A) There is more than one ambassador- I don't know if this is a likely thing or not, though, not being that familiar with embassy protocol.

I wish I knew more about how this all worked too, but I'm inclined to say there must be more than one with one being the senior ambassador. They obviously must have a good deal of support staff. I was in Ottawa (our nation's capital) over the weekend and some of those embassies were huge.

B) Gheryn is the previous ambassador (prior to Aladan) but retains the title as an honorific (like ex-presidents are still called president); though I don't think this is standard protocol either.

Not a bad idea. Hopefully someone in the know can tell us about these things. But even so, I think this is usable.

c) something happened to Aladan Voll between the publication of Gaz1 and 9.

I definately prefer the first two options! :D
#3

twin_campaigns

Sep 15, 2005 1:01:13
The obvious trouble here is that the whole concept of Minrothad was changed in Gaz 9. Before it was only hinted at, and made to be you regular seagoing merchant oligarchy, and mostly a human nation.

After Gaz9 I'd be inclined to say that Minrothad would have a "layered" embassy in Karameikos.
- Voll is the nominal ambassador sent by Oran Meditor. He is the one who deals with Stefan Karameikos when it comes to affairs between states.
- But there is a host of "junior" ambassadors who come from the various political factions in Minrothad, and are working for their interests. Karameikos must be an important country for any guild's politics.
- Then there is the Merchant Agent's office, which is quite powereful also.
- In addition to this, you have Oran's allies in the Thieve's Guild, the spies and assassins.

Another exmple of rewriting is the embassy of Darokin. It's not just the nominal ambassador, there is a huge staff of DDC present according to
Gaz 11.
#4

zendrolion

Sep 15, 2005 3:32:16
I wish I knew more about how this all worked too, but I'm inclined to say there must be more than one with one being the senior ambassador.

Some bits of history, too. Perhaps some of these would be useful.

Mystara KW seems to be designed after Europe about 15th century AD, right?
Well, at this time only the Papacy began to send its ambassadors (called "nuncios") in the major nations (Empire, France, Venice, Hungary, etc.).

This practice wasnt' followed by other European nations until the beginning of 16th century. Until this time, most ambassadors were sent only to fulfill special missions, and were not assigned to permanent charges.
The first country to develop a system of standing ambassadors in 16th century was the Republic of Venice; this developement marks the beginning of the "modern" diplomacy.

When an ambassador was sent in a single public mission (meeting the Emperor or a King at an official occasion, etc.) he usually was followed by a HUGE numbero of people (assistants, minor nobles, moneylenders, servants, concubines, scribes, etc. - in some situations even more than 100 peoples!!! ).

However, it was very unlikely that a given embassy would number a very large personnel, becouse its cost was very high for the ambassador's native country.
Francesco Vettori, Florence's ambassador to Rome (about 1510) was only served by a staff of two servants; the count of Onate, Spanish ambassador to Praag and Vien (beginning of 17th century) lived there with his family and some few servants.

Nations were inclined to give the ambassador some money in advance, but these funds were usually very very few compared to the diplomat's expenses (corruption, gifts, feasts, expensive clothing, etc. - after all, the image of the ambassador was intended to reflect that of his nation, i.e. the Spanish ambassador couldn't go around dressed as a beggar... :P ).
Later, nations tended to give the ambassador few money and the payment of these funds were usually late or insufficient, so that the ambassador had to live with his own money (usually incurring in debts). This happened becouse of the increasing burocracy, military, navy and court expenses - even the nations contracted debts (and some made more than one bankrupcy) becouse their funds ran low! In a word, even if it was one of the most prestigious appointments, to be ambassador was a very very costly and hazardous position.
An ambassador tended to hold his charge for some years (about 2-5), but there stayed in charge much more (the said Onate held its charge for about 15 years! ).

To fly back to Mystara, I think that most late-Medieval or Reinassance nations should follow this rule; i.e. Karameikos or even Thyatis can't afford to send tens of peoples to every single country with which it has diplomatic ties (as said, this would happen only in special occasions).
Some early-Medieval nations shouldn't have embassies at all (Ethengar, Ostland, Soderfjord, Vestland, Sind and perhaps Wendar, Norwold and the like), but send their envoys only when there is a specific mission to fulfill (in short, their spy-networks shouldn't gather much informations... ).

IMO Minrothad and Darokin should be perhaps the only two exceptions to this rule, becouse their trading systems and networks are closely connected with their governments. Their treasury is much more abundant and the government is perhaps financed by the merchant families and by the guilds. So their embassies could host more personnel than usual. ;)

Sorry for the leght! :embarrass :D
#5

zombiegleemax

Sep 15, 2005 17:21:15
Thanks for the history lesson, that really clears up things for me a lot and gives me some ideas for assassin's guilds working as secret branches of governments and using the embassies and a cover to infiltrate into other nations. :D Now I can remember that in some nations there will be certain embassies. I usually just didn't have any standing ambassadors.