I Like What Paizo Is Doing (For Greyhawk) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

I Like What Paizo Is Doing (For Greyhawk)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 17, 2005 4:51:23 Personally, the meat and potatoes of D&D, for me, is adventures. Therefore I love the fact that Paizo continues to put out such great D&D adventures in Dungeon magazine, and as long as they keep publishing at least one GH adventure, on average, per issue, I will keep subscribing.

While I understand it probably makes more business sense to produce rulebooks over adventures (there are more players than DMs by necessity), it has still disappointed me immensely that they have not published more adventures, especially considering that I have loved every single adventure published by WotC (even the excruciatingly difficult Heart of Nightfang Spire). Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, the Sunless Citadel (Meepo rules!), these were great starts for the 3rd edition system. I know this isn't the Eberron board, but the three Eberron modules that were released were also great.

The more I think about it, the more I disagree with the need a Greyhawk hardcover. As cool as it would be, I would be much happier if WotC simply started writing quality adventures again, particularly with the Greyhawk logo. I'm excited to see the Forgotten Realms module series coming out and the Fantastic Locations series may be interesting, but adventures that have advanced the plot of Greyhawk are what have always captivated my attention more than anything else. I think Paizo has it right. They need to continue making Greyhawk adventures. That's really what I want to buy, and that's really what I want to use.
#2
ranger_reg
Sep 18, 2005 2:31:04 Oy vey.

Please tell me you are wearing an asbestos suit on.
#3
zombiegleemax
Sep 19, 2005 12:55:05 Personally I hadn't looked at or thought about Dungeon for years until one day I happened to spot the issue with Isle of Dread on the cover. When it comes down to it I don't think there's anything in D&D I like better than a classic Greyhawk adventure, and I don't think I disagree with you about the hardcover, either. We don't need a $45 Greyhawk hardcover, but some ongoing support in Dungeon would be appreciated. At this point I think it's safe to say Wizards probably won't be unleashing a Greyhawk line anytime soon and honestly I don't think they'll be licensing it out, either, but I'm okay with that because I don't think Greyhawk is ever going to go away, the fans, players, and DMs will keep right on using it whether it has a new hardcover or not. And if I see Greyhawk adventures popping up in Dungeon I'll be happy to take a look.
#4
Elendur
Sep 19, 2005 16:42:29 I agree that Paizo is doing about as good as anyone could hope for regarding Greyhawk.
#5
maldin
Sep 19, 2005 17:32:50 Erik is doing an absolutely wonderful job at single-handedly (with the help of his little elves, of course) keeping the Greyhawk flame alive through Dragon and Dungeon. Fans, however, have no idea how strong the current is that he is swimming against (and if you knew, you would be even so much more appreciative). A Greyhawk hardcover (whether you want one or not) is NOT going to happen. Nobody seems to know who... and nobody seems to know why (except for the usual dead horse beatings/guesswork of anti-Gygaxian corporate sentiment, or the lame excuse of brand dilution)... but there is somebody (or somebodies) at the top of the WotC food chain that want nothing less then the death and disappearance of Greyhawk. Plain and simple. Talk all you want about product line re-emergence, presence of Greyhawk references in 4E, or Greyhawk licensing... There can only be one answer to all Greyhawk questions... No. I've been directly given that answer myself straight from the layer just below the top of the WotC foodchain.

Thats ok. My Greyhawk campaign will live on. I will continue to thank Erik for his dedication and hard work.

Denis, aka "Maldin"
============================
Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
#6
grodog
Sep 20, 2005 1:08:50
There can only be one answer to all Greyhawk questions... No.

Silly me, I thought the question was multiple choice: a) Maure Castle, b) Age of Worms, c) Castle Zagyg, d) Oerth Journal, e) Maldin's reinvigorated web site, f) e and anything else you care to toss into the mix! :D :D
#7
maldin
Sep 20, 2005 10:40:13
Silly me, I thought the question was multiple choice: a) Maure Castle, b) Age of Worms, c) Castle Zagyg, d) Oerth Journal, e) Maldin's reinvigorated web site, f) e and anything else you care to toss into the mix! :D :D

Hey hey, Grodog. You and I both know all those things you list are juicy Greyhawk goodness through and through (however you forgot to add Grodog's Web of Wonderful Greyness!). ;) But you also know that none of those things are WotC (and that includes, but is not limited to 3E/4E/d20 stuff, permission to do GH 3E/4E/d20 stuff, hardcovers, permission to do hardcovers, setting supplements, permission to do setting supplements, published adventures, permission to do published adventures, etc.) of which we were talking.

Even while the RPGA's arm of WotC continues with the wildly popular Living Greyhawk (only because it can't stop it now), I really truly do not understand its attitude towards the setting that started it all - seemingly in SPITE of all those LG players (not to mention their countless other customers who use Greyhawk). It makes me think that they likely have LG on a timeline with a lethal termination date.

But you're point is not only taken, but one I've made myself countless times. Greyhawk will live on forever through countless DMs, and their online presence. Through things we know to be Greyhawk, even though they have been stripped of the word "Greyhawk" (like Age of Worms). Also through magazine articles and adventures, thanks to Erik's dedication. EGG, however, has made it clear that Yggsburg is not the city of Greyhawk (in oh so many ways). And he has also said in an Enworld thread that completion of the supplement containing the actual Castle Zagyg is a long way off, never mind the publishing schedule. When I get a chance, I'll try to find that post again.

Denis, aka "Maldin"
============================
Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
#8
Amaril
Sep 20, 2005 13:45:41 I think what a lot of individuals forget is that while it might be easy for longtime Greyhawk fans to have continued support, that support is based on a foundation already established. New players, or potential Greyhawkers, won't have a convenient beginning resource to facilitate their introduction into the World of Greyhawk.

I already struggle with having scatterred resources for my players to reference, which is inconvenient to say the least.

If the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer were to be preserved as a fully searchable, bookmarked PDF, legally distributable, and included the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer Index and PrCs from LGJ as well as the Regional Feats of Oerth from Dragon #315 and #319, then maybe I'd be complacent with WotC dropping support for Greyhawk.
#9
zombiegleemax
Sep 21, 2005 10:55:06 I agree with your sentiments, Amaril, but for my part I actually got into Greyhawk not long ago, way after it had stop seeing the support of its heyday. I first got involved in basic D&D in the mid-'80s but the only module I had was X1 and even then I had no concept of Greyhawk as a world or setting, I was too young and too new to D&D. Then I got into AD&D 2e a few years later and eventually delved into Forgotten Realms and Dark Sun along with it. It wasn't until after 3.5 was released that I really started hunting for Greyhawk material. I'm happy I did, because I like it the best out of any D&D setting I've ever encounted. My point is that there are probably always going to be people out there looking and hoping for a "classic" setting like Greyhawk, and if they look hard enough they'll find it. You're absolutely right, though, the absence of support from WotC it does make it incredibly more difficult for new players and DMs to discover Greyhawk.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 17, 2005 4:51:23	Personally, the meat and potatoes of D&D, for me, is adventures. Therefore I love the fact that Paizo continues to put out such great D&D adventures in Dungeon magazine, and as long as they keep publishing at least one GH adventure, on average, per issue, I will keep subscribing. While I understand it probably makes more business sense to produce rulebooks over adventures (there are more players than DMs by necessity), it has still disappointed me immensely that they have not published more adventures, especially considering that I have loved every single adventure published by WotC (even the excruciatingly difficult Heart of Nightfang Spire). Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, the Sunless Citadel (Meepo rules!), these were great starts for the 3rd edition system. I know this isn't the Eberron board, but the three Eberron modules that were released were also great. The more I think about it, the more I disagree with the need a Greyhawk hardcover. As cool as it would be, I would be much happier if WotC simply started writing quality adventures again, particularly with the Greyhawk logo. I'm excited to see the Forgotten Realms module series coming out and the Fantastic Locations series may be interesting, but adventures that have advanced the plot of Greyhawk are what have always captivated my attention more than anything else. I think Paizo has it right. They need to continue making Greyhawk adventures. That's really what I want to buy, and that's really what I want to use.
#2 ranger_reg Sep 18, 2005 2:31:04	Oy vey. Please tell me you are wearing an asbestos suit on.
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 19, 2005 12:55:05	Personally I hadn't looked at or thought about Dungeon for years until one day I happened to spot the issue with Isle of Dread on the cover. When it comes down to it I don't think there's anything in D&D I like better than a classic Greyhawk adventure, and I don't think I disagree with you about the hardcover, either. We don't need a $45 Greyhawk hardcover, but some ongoing support in Dungeon would be appreciated. At this point I think it's safe to say Wizards probably won't be unleashing a Greyhawk line anytime soon and honestly I don't think they'll be licensing it out, either, but I'm okay with that because I don't think Greyhawk is ever going to go away, the fans, players, and DMs will keep right on using it whether it has a new hardcover or not. And if I see Greyhawk adventures popping up in Dungeon I'll be happy to take a look.
#4 Elendur Sep 19, 2005 16:42:29	I agree that Paizo is doing about as good as anyone could hope for regarding Greyhawk.
#5 maldin Sep 19, 2005 17:32:50	Erik is doing an absolutely wonderful job at single-handedly (with the help of his little elves, of course) keeping the Greyhawk flame alive through Dragon and Dungeon. Fans, however, have no idea how strong the current is that he is swimming against (and if you knew, you would be even so much more appreciative). A Greyhawk hardcover (whether you want one or not) is NOT going to happen. Nobody seems to know who... and nobody seems to know why (except for the usual dead horse beatings/guesswork of anti-Gygaxian corporate sentiment, or the lame excuse of brand dilution)... but there is somebody (or somebodies) at the top of the WotC food chain that want nothing less then the death and disappearance of Greyhawk. Plain and simple. Talk all you want about product line re-emergence, presence of Greyhawk references in 4E, or Greyhawk licensing... There can only be one answer to all Greyhawk questions... No. I've been directly given that answer myself straight from the layer just below the top of the WotC foodchain. Thats ok. My Greyhawk campaign will live on. I will continue to thank Erik for his dedication and hard work. Denis, aka "Maldin" ============================ Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
#6 grodog Sep 20, 2005 1:08:50	There can only be one answer to all Greyhawk questions... No. Silly me, I thought the question was multiple choice: a) Maure Castle, b) Age of Worms, c) Castle Zagyg, d) Oerth Journal, e) Maldin's reinvigorated web site, f) e and anything else you care to toss into the mix! :D :D
#7 maldin Sep 20, 2005 10:40:13	Silly me, I thought the question was multiple choice: a) Maure Castle, b) Age of Worms, c) Castle Zagyg, d) Oerth Journal, e) Maldin's reinvigorated web site, f) e and anything else you care to toss into the mix! :D :D Hey hey, Grodog. You and I both know all those things you list are juicy Greyhawk goodness through and through (however you forgot to add Grodog's Web of Wonderful Greyness!). ;) But you also know that none of those things are WotC (and that includes, but is not limited to 3E/4E/d20 stuff, permission to do GH 3E/4E/d20 stuff, hardcovers, permission to do hardcovers, setting supplements, permission to do setting supplements, published adventures, permission to do published adventures, etc.) of which we were talking. Even while the RPGA's arm of WotC continues with the wildly popular Living Greyhawk (only because it can't stop it now), I really truly do not understand its attitude towards the setting that started it all - seemingly in SPITE of all those LG players (not to mention their countless other customers who use Greyhawk). It makes me think that they likely have LG on a timeline with a lethal termination date. But you're point is not only taken, but one I've made myself countless times. Greyhawk will live on forever through countless DMs, and their online presence. Through things we know to be Greyhawk, even though they have been stripped of the word "Greyhawk" (like Age of Worms). Also through magazine articles and adventures, thanks to Erik's dedication. EGG, however, has made it clear that Yggsburg is not the city of Greyhawk (in oh so many ways). And he has also said in an Enworld thread that completion of the supplement containing the actual Castle Zagyg is a long way off, never mind the publishing schedule. When I get a chance, I'll try to find that post again. Denis, aka "Maldin" ============================ Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
#8 Amaril Sep 20, 2005 13:45:41	I think what a lot of individuals forget is that while it might be easy for longtime Greyhawk fans to have continued support, that support is based on a foundation already established. New players, or potential Greyhawkers, won't have a convenient beginning resource to facilitate their introduction into the World of Greyhawk. I already struggle with having scatterred resources for my players to reference, which is inconvenient to say the least. If the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer were to be preserved as a fully searchable, bookmarked PDF, legally distributable, and included the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer Index and PrCs from LGJ as well as the Regional Feats of Oerth from Dragon #315 and #319, then maybe I'd be complacent with WotC dropping support for Greyhawk.
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 21, 2005 10:55:06	I agree with your sentiments, Amaril, but for my part I actually got into Greyhawk not long ago, way after it had stop seeing the support of its heyday. I first got involved in basic D&D in the mid-'80s but the only module I had was X1 and even then I had no concept of Greyhawk as a world or setting, I was too young and too new to D&D. Then I got into AD&D 2e a few years later and eventually delved into Forgotten Realms and Dark Sun along with it. It wasn't until after 3.5 was released that I really started hunting for Greyhawk material. I'm happy I did, because I like it the best out of any D&D setting I've ever encounted. My point is that there are probably always going to be people out there looking and hoping for a "classic" setting like Greyhawk, and if they look hard enough they'll find it. You're absolutely right, though, the absence of support from WotC it does make it incredibly more difficult for new players and DMs to discover Greyhawk.