An important note first: Being a necromant or shadow wizard does not change the dragon metamorphosis at all. You are still a dragon, and you still gain all those dragon powers only if you defile. Taking energy from the Black is incompatible with the dragon class abilities, for example. So you can't use the dragon class abilities in conjunction with gathering energy from the Black since that is not defiling.
That you are a necromant or shadow wizard, a DM shouldn't let you become a dragon due to the dedication that necromant and shadow wizard require of the PC. You give yourself wholely to the Black, for example, and even though you still can defile you never use it unless you are magically cut-off from the Black and in need of spellcasting. A dragon requires the same dedication, this time to defiling, which does not allow other overly important forms of spellcasting - such as Black and Gray use - to be taken.
Now, I seem to recall that board members were ok, or undecided, as to taking said forms of spellcasting after dragonhood is achieved. But even then dragonhood requires constant dedication.
Still, I guess its possible after becoming a dragon to learn another spellcasting technique. Lots of people seem to want Nibenay to be a shadow wizard as well as a dragon.
The same answer applies to a necromant wanting to become a shadow wizard, and vice versa: it was suggested to not allow it.
) but as was just stated above, I would think that once the metamorphosis was begun (or at least at some point along the way) it should be possible to obtain other energy types to fuel your powers.. perhaps like an epic feat? or a template of some type??I seem to recall a Fearun character, in 2e.. who was a generalist mage, but once he became epic level (21+) he gained all the powers and benefits of being a specialist necromancer, none of the drawbacks, and a host of additional abilities as well... I think an epic level spellcaster should have the opportunity to make other avenues of spell energy available.. (certainly Rajaat wasn't restricted to just plant life!) and I'm of the personal opinion that Hamannu was able (eventually) to make use of all energy sources..
(if you think on it.. light from the sun, shadow, plant, animal, the grey.. what environment could he possibly end up in, where he wasn't able to pull from at least one source?? only the Hollow I'd say :P)
Personally, I think Rajaat is a Defiler/Sun Mage/Shadow Mage all in one. I also believe him to be an AB as well, though what kind is completely speculation...
Funny this topic comes up. I've often wondered as to what source Rajaat uses to power his spells to become so uber powerful. It was suggested his power came from the Black in the literature so I'm wondering if he, himself, was a type of AB. Maybe he even learned some rudimentary lifeshaping techniques? Perhaps his halfling assistants revealed some deeper secrets of lifes potential?
Personally, I think Rajaat is a Defiler/Sun Mage/Shadow Mage all in one. I also believe him to be an AB as well, though what kind is completely speculation...
I think Rajaat is beyond what we'd consider an Advanced Being. He is a pyreen, which makes him psion/druid in nature. However, his deformity could be more than just skin-deep. What if Rajaat, rather than being connected to a Spirit of the Land (which gets the divine power from the four Elemental planes equally) for druid abilities, has a direct link to the four Paraelemental planes? This would explain a number of things, like the Cerulean Storm, for instance (Rajaat forging a pact directly with Rain), and possibly why Silt, Sun, and Magma seem to benefit from Rajaat's destruction of the planet. PErsonally, I think Rajaat currently is forming a more solid alliance with all four paraelements--and that is being recognized in the Valley of the Cerulean Storm. Magma, Silt, and Rain are all present, with Sun watching overhead. Rajaat could be using this new alliance to make himself even more powerful. This is one of the reasons (not the only I think that Sadira played directly into Rajaat's hands when she threw away the Dark Lens into the lava there. If Rajaat is forging a stronger alliance with the paraelements, he could be using them then to make himself a new body. His bones mix with the lava, and the Cerulean Storm pouring down on the magma slowly forges obsidian. The Dark Lens is obsidian itself and merges with the new obsidian bones that Rajaat is making, becoming part of himself directly. Silt's part in this is uncertian, but Sun's will be obvious--Rajaat got Sadira to be a "Sun Wizard", and the Dark Lens draws power from Sun--which means that Sun can fuel his spells even more.
Rajaat's connection to the Black, I think, is related to the cosmological situation with the Hollow. The Hollow had been cracked, and I think that Rajaat has slowly insinuated his will into the Black through those cracks for most of his time he was trapped there. Creatures in the Black slowly turn towards Rajaat's will, and Rajaat could easily have set himself up as being able to use the full power of that plane to his own ends.
Of course, I feel that Rajaat really isn't trapped any more. That he is simply biding his time in the Hollow, to put his enemies at ease while he finishes his preparations to return and finish the Cleansing Wars himself, in order to (as he thinks) usher in a new Blue Age (but I personally believe it will do nothing but totally annihilate Athas when he accomplishes this).
remember he tried to make himself an AB prior to his visit to the Pristine Tower back in the forest he turned into a swamp..
I see no evidence of that, Lyric.
Apparently he was attempting to master magic to the fullest, arriving at a point where he couldn't control the energies, i.e. Rajaat discovered his limits, creating the swamp at the base of the Jagged Cliffs by mishap. After that he returned to the Pristine Tower, confident of his supreme mastery.
81st King's Age (-8,393)
-Silt's Agitation
Rajaat arrives at the base of the Jagged Cliffs where he conduits experiments with the powers of life for the next 200 years.
84th King's Age (-8,162)
-King's Defiance
After nearly two centuries of experiments Rajaat discovers the basics of magic, but is nearly killed in the process. After recovering he leaves the Jagged Cliffs and travels to the Pristine Tower to refine the magic process, creating defiling and preservi ng magic. The Time of Magic begins.
There is more detail about the swamp's creation and the limits of magic in the historical section of Defilers and Preservers. Remember that the limits were indeed reached, because Rajaat attempted to tap the very life energy of Athas, and failed, causing the swamp to form.
while i find the idea of Rajaat's new body being made of obsidian and new pacts forged with the paraelements fascinating.. it seems to strike me as a tad overkill... he already can't be harmed, only delayed, and then by artifacts or epic level spellcasters in mass... he's already got a ton of power.. what else does he need?? what's the point of taking invulnerable, and making it more invulnerable?? What would be a step up from Godhood? :P unless you figure he's the equal of a demigod then its all ok ;)
But Rajaat's existence isn't to ensure that he can't be harmed or defeated. His purpose is to return Athas to the Blue Age that he envisions. Such power requires effective overkill. It's just, once again, I feel that he's not seeing things as clearly as he should, and is misguided--his solution to returning Athas or the Blue Age will in fact destroy everything and leave a barren wasteland. The Paraelemental planes recognize that Rajaat's power has enhanced their power (or in Rain's case, it sees Rajaat as the "right horse to back" in order to regain iots footing in the world), and Rajaat is seeking to basically recreate the world in the image he desires, following a very machiavellian "ends justify the means" sort of way. He could easily just be considering that the remaining Pristine races and his rebellious children (the SK's) will simply be swept away in the torrent of his neww power as he redesigns the world back to what he thinks is the Blue Age. Rajaat probably looks at the various opponents he has as little more than ants to be crushed underfoot and more or less harmless to him anyway.
So, how would the elemental planes react to the threat Rajaat's pact with the paraelemental planes poses?
The Paraelemental planes have effectively been winning the conflict between elemental and paraelemental. They each (except rain) have been expanding as the imbalance of nature becomes more pronounced. Rain has semi-sided with the elements (in appearance) as it has also been losing the battle. Rain, which was losing, was the first paraelement to side with Rajaat, as is noted by Rajaat's Cerulean Storm, which was his body when he returned/was freed recently and now rages over the former Valley of Dust and Flame. Rajaat's Arcane Magic (Defiling, particularly) had done a great job of throwing the world's elemental balance completely off-kilter, resulting in expanded power for Sun, Silt and somewhat Magma--as such, Sun, Silt, and Magma generally does not hate or oppose Defilers outright. Rajaat appealing to those planes, with his already-existing link to them and the evidence that what he's done is simply expand those paraelements can most likely get them all to side with him--I think that is what is happening in the Valley of the Cerulean Storm currently. The difference between the Elemental and Paraelemental powers, from what I could tell, is that the Elemental powers want to restore the "balance of nature", while the Paraelemental powers have become corrupted and focused totally on their individual increase in power and influence. Even Rain is so focused--but it has been losing that conflict, so it nominally sides with the Elements for now, simply because it cannot win the fight on its own.
The Elements probably already caught wind of this, and most likely have been trying to restore the balance even more. Not only do they have their own Clerics to work at this, but as the Spirits of the Land had been granted access to divine power through the pact of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water -- the power which they wield is effectively the essence of the balance of nature. Druids are directed to their tasks and given their power by the Spirits of the Land, and actively work towards restoring Athas, mostly allying with the Elemental Clerics.
Now, what can the Elements do in the wake of this alliance between the First Sorcerer and the Paraelements? I'm not sure--that could be the whole basis for an entire epic-reaching campaign all on its own -- with Elemental powers, SPirits of the Land, and their followers working to stop what is happening in the Valley of the Cerulean Storm, as well as conceivably draw battle lines for a full-out war between the inner planes. The Elements might try to enlist the help of enemies of Rajaat to stop what they are seeing--including potentially following the ideals of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and bringing an olive branch of truce between themselves and the Sorcerer-Kings to stop this impending threat.
I see no evidence of that, Lyric.
Apparently he was attempting to master magic to the fullest, arriving at a point where he couldn't control the energies, i.e. Rajaat discovered his limits, creating the swamp at the base of the Jagged Cliffs by mishap. After that he returned to the Pristine Tower, confident of his supreme mastery.
There is more detail about the swamp's creation and the limits of magic in the historical section of Defilers and Preservers. Remember that the limits were indeed reached, because Rajaat attempted to tap the very life energy of Athas, and failed, causing the swamp to form.
I'm certain that same book explains that Rajaat was trying to find a way to transform "himself" into something grand either physically or spiritually.. but that may have been later, when he was trying to refine sorcery in the Pristine Tower and came up with the Metamorphosis spells.. you may be right, he may have only been trying to reach the limits of magic back then.. but then.. what did he need to tap that poten life energy for?
And is there anyway we can have a super uber Avangion tap it??
Rajaat was a defiler after all.. it is possible he couldn't control that energy, but that a preserver could Hm... If Rajaat has this area where he "invented" Arcane Magic, in the process warping it horribly - did he warp the Spirit of the Land too? Perhaps binding that Spirit to the Paraelemental Planes rather than the Elemental Planes... and then binding it in turn to himself.
Hummm, very interesting!
The pryeen were already, I think, kind of close to the SotL in the first place. Maybe he was able to trap some and experiment upon, allowing him to bind their ability to channel the energy of life into spell-like effects and was able to teach others how to kind of tap the source when he had mastered it. If this is the case, which is kinda cool, would not Rajaat become weaker as more of the planet was sucked dry of life, unless as you say, he was able to somehow force a SotL to link up with the paraelemental planes, when would make him stronger was more of the world was changes!
Now, what can the Elements do in the wake of this alliance between the First Sorcerer and the Paraelements? I'm not sure--that could be the whole basis for an entire epic-reaching campaign all on its own -- with Elemental powers, SPirits of the Land, and their followers working to stop what is happening in the Valley of the Cerulean Storm, as well as conceivably draw battle lines for a full-out war between the inner planes. The Elements might try to enlist the help of enemies of Rajaat to stop what they are seeing--including potentially following the ideals of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and bringing an olive branch of truce between themselves and the Sorcerer-Kings to stop this impending threat.
Hey Xlor, maybe this has already begun. Remember your aversion to this very idea being present in RaFoaDK?
Hey Xlor, maybe this has already begun. Remember your aversion to this very idea being present in RaFoaDK?
No, my aversion was to the idea that Hamanu would advance enough in the dragon metamorphosis to go mad, and then have to be put down. My aversion is to losing more Sorcerer-Kings than already has been lost due to the Prism Pentad.
I personally have no qualms with the idea that a Spirit of the Land is possibly seeking to make contact with the Lion of Urik, through one Druid (like Pavek).
Rob.
What about a dragon who is a sun wizard? I my game I have a fully metamorphed dragon who feeds of the life energy of the sun. In time for my game it would lead to a ice age by weakening the sun in the long term, say 1000 years. And this would be the start of the Grey Age before the rebirth of the blue age.....But that's my game.....
"Sun Wizard" is a collection of changes brought on by an epic spell. "Dragon" too. When a character casts one of these two spells after having already cast the first one, wherever the changes brought on by the new spell interfere with those of the old one, the old changes are overwritten.
As simple as that.
Also, being a sun wizard may change a character's type to something that won't allow him to cast the dragon metamorphosis spell on himself, or to take levels in the dragon PrC.
"Sun Wizard" is a collection of changes brought on by an epic spell. "Dragon" too. When a character casts one of these two spells after having already cast the first one, wherever the changes brought on by the new spell interfere with those of the old one, the old changes are overwritten.
As simple as that.
Also, being a sun wizard may change a character's type to something that won't allow him to cast the dragon metamorphosis spell on himself, or to take levels in the dragon PrC.
Okay. The character / NPC is level 10 as a dragon PrC, then became a sun wizard. I have it he draw from the sun in day light and he draws from animals / plants outside sunlight. I hope I have this right?
that would work for me... but being that he's epic level, wouldn't you want him to be continually connected to the sun?? meaning, rather than have his special abilities (outside drawing on the sun for spells of course) vanish at night, wouldn't you wan them to remain??? (kinda like hamannu in RafoaDK)?
Could that happen? I'm just guessed that from all the metereal I've read and from the sun wizard templete from these boards that once a sun wizard in no longer in sunlight they loose their abilities from before they had became a sun wizard, eg. the inceased strengeth and caster level, not just the ability to draw his spell's from the sun. The one way he may be able to be to link to the paraelemental plane of sun thru the dark len like the SK's are conected to the elemental planes through the dark lens. Oh in my campain he used the dark lens to preform the dragon transfermation spell and then hide the lens later placed new ward's on it far for Rajaats prison before the events in RafoaDK toke place.
Could that happen? I'm just guessed that from all the metereal I've read and from the sun wizard templete from these boards that once a sun wizard in no longer in sunlight they loose their abilities from before they had became a sun wizard, eg. the inceased strengeth and caster level, not just the ability to draw his spell's from the sun. The one way he may be able to be to link to the paraelemental plane of sun thru the dark len like the SK's are conected to the elemental planes through the dark lens. Oh in my campain he used the dark lens to preform the dragon transfermation spell and then hide the lens later placed new ward's on it far for Rajaats prison before the events in RafoaDK toke place.
I would say the use of the Dark Lense would be most appropriate, the reason I feel its valid to have an Epic Sun Wizard retain his abilities, is based on the Dragon or Avangion HD.. as they grow in power, in their epic levels, they amass huge amounts of HP, (unless that's changed much) they have far more HD than most, and as such, can be thought of as sort of life batteries.. a dragon could power his spells off his own life force for some time, before having any significant detriment... Hence, I say with an Epic Sun Wizard application to the character, he can be considered a battery for the sun as well... absorbing and 'storing' energy to sustain him through the night.. to gain that function, I think you are right in using the Dark Lense or some other significant arcane item with a tie to the sun..
Hmmm, he could also store the sun's energy in matercrafted obsidian orbs? What would you thinkabout that?
say, a less pure form of what the Dark Lense represents, still capable of handling sun energy (almost said solar ) but not near as potent as the Dark Lense itself is.. But what did you mean by matercrafted? was that a typo?? please do share, I think you're onto a neat idea
( you know, even if no one else wants a permanent Gray age in Athas.. it would be a great adventure to run adding a time travel component ) Time travel lets you mess around with all sorts of stuff, and then, if you don't like it, it never happened! But if you fail... it did! :DThe Dark Lens is one thing that is connected to the sun 24 hours a day, and Rajaat and Hamanu are purported to be as well.
I surmise that Sadira would also have been connected 24 hours a day if the Dark Lens had been present at the time of her creation. If you recall, the shadow people told her that they couldn't make her as strong as she wanted to be unless the Dark Lens was found and put back at the center of the Steeple of Crystals.
I guess that, if the Lens had been there when Sadira first showed up at the Tower, she would have been made into a sun wizard that was connected to the sun 24 hours a day, and a lot more powerful as well.
Matercrafted? I'm not familiar with that term.. I was thinking he'd continue to use obsidian orbs, or you could institude a new type of obsidian in your game, say its related to the 'type' of obsidian the Dark Lense comes from, a special blend if you will
But what did you mean by matercrafted? was that a typo?? please do share, I think you're onto a neat idea
I think what he ment for mastercrafted is masterworked- ie like masterworked weapons, armor, and tools. I think that when applied to obsidian orbs, masterworked would imply that the item was pure and free from flaws- ie high enough quality to be used to create orbs of energy storing and other magic/psionic items that call of flawless orbs of obsidian. :D
You asked if it was possible to be connected to the sun 24 hours a day, even though Sadira became disconnected during sundown...
The Dark Lens is one thing that is connected to the sun 24 hours a day, and Rajaat and Hamanu are purported to be as well.
I surmise that Sadira would also have been connected 24 hours a day if the Dark Lens had been present at the time of her creation. If you recall, the shadow people told her that they couldn't make her as strong as she wanted to be unless the Dark Lens was found and put back at the center of the Steeple of Crystals.
I guess that, if the Lens had been there when Sadira first showed up at the Tower, she would have been made into a sun wizard that was connected to the sun 24 hours a day, and a lot more powerful as well.
I think you are right, I think it would have put her on a par with the Dragon, or that is what I was under the impression of when I read that part, but after reading RaFoaDK, I am now under the impression that it would have remade her into a Dragon, one like Hamannu.. only then would she have been able to defeat all the SK's which is what they really wanted.. and Rajaat would have been more than happy to oblige..
I think what he ment for mastercrafted is masterworked- ie like masterworked weapons, armor, and tools. I think that when applied to obsidian orbs, masterworked would imply that the item was pure and free from flaws- ie high enough quality to be used to create orbs of energy storing and other magic/psionic items that call of flawless orbs of obsidian. :D
you could be right, and if so, that's similar enough to what I was proposing to be acceptable to me
after reading RaFoaDK, I am now under the impression that it would have remade her into a Dragon, one like Hamannu.. only then would she have been able to defeat all the SK's which is what they really wanted.. and Rajaat would have been more than happy to oblige..
Yeah, seems like the best thing Rajaat could do to free himself and get rid of his traitor Champions, would have been to give Sadira the same "kill-everything-that-stands" power he gave to Hamanu. Since Hamanu does not want to use that power, Sadira must become the tool to replace him. But...the Lens are not in the Tower, thus Rajaat's plan cannot be executed like he wished, and Sadira ends up not as powerful as Hamanu was made.
Matercrafted? I'm not familiar with that term.. I was thinking he'd continue to use obsidian orbs, or you could institude a new type of obsidian in your game, say its related to the 'type' of obsidian the Dark Lense comes from, a special blend if you will
But what did you mean by matercrafted? was that a typo?? please do share, I think you're onto a neat idea
Sorry, it's a term we use in our gaming group. You take a master worked item in this case a flawless obsidian orb a dragon would use in it's magic, and add an element that give it inate magical power, so a flawless obsidian orb from the heart of the elemental plane of earth that has never been exposed to light. So it is master worked item that is almost a fully crafted magic item.
I like the idea about the time travel element. The idea I have now is the Grey Age is a thousand years in the future. The dragon I'm using was a mutated space halfling that was trying to weaken the sun's strength to help bring about the environment of the Blue Age. When he under went the dragon transformation he used the Dark Len to link the paraelenemtal plane of sun and rain. When the dragon uses sun magic it burns away / defiles the paraelemental plane of sun's power and tranfers some of that power to the paraelemental plane of rain. What the dragon didn't know is he was also drawing on the grey as well and sending the negative energy to the paraelemental of rain "freezing" the plane and forming dirty grey ice to form on athus. After a 1000 years you get a ice age of grey ice. Also by then the sun is much smaller give off less light and heat, it also burn off a good about of is mass as ash that block still more light & heat from the sun.