Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kismetrose Sep 20, 2005 17:47:04	When a prime dies on the Prime Material, they leave a body behind (with all their stuff of course) and their spirit departs to the plane of their afterlife, depending on patron deity and/or alignment. When a prime dies on another plane, I gather that a similar thing occurs - body stays behind, spirit goes away. I also gather that, for the most part, planars are the same way. I am a little confused about things that I am used to seeing summoned to the Prime Material, like demons and celestials. If these creatures die on the Prime Material, they are in effect banished back to their plane. But if they die out on the planes, what happens? Do they leave a body behind? Does their essence go back to their plane, or are they permanently destroyed? Likewise, I know that petitioners killed outside of the intend plane of their afterlife are gone for good. I think that I remember reading somewhere that if they are killed on their intended plane, they are absorbed into the plane. I can't remember well, though. My question here is, do they leave bodies behind? What of proxies? Are they simply called back to their god? Are any of these circumstances changed if a being dies in Sigil? I have been looking for these answers on my own with little success, so I thought I would ask. I am new to PS but not to D&D in general; I thought this would have been easier to figure out. Any help is appreciated.
#2 ripvanwormer Sep 20, 2005 18:52:53	When a prime dies on the Prime Material, they leave a body behind (with all their stuff of course) and their spirit departs to the plane of their afterlife, depending on patron deity and/or alignment. When a prime dies on another plane, I gather that a similar thing occurs - body stays behind, spirit goes away. I also gather that, for the most part, planars are the same way. That's right. Plane of origin doesn't change the nature of a creature's soul. There are a few planes you can die in that might be awkward for a soul to depart from - creatures who die in some parts of the Abyss sometimes become bodaks, for example. I am a little confused about things that I am used to seeing summoned to the Prime Material, like demons and celestials. Summoning is a special situation, akin to astral projection. The creature's true form isn't summoned, just its mind which is given a body by the spell. If you kill an outsider's true form, it's just dead, its essence merged with its plane, although previous editions allowed extremely powerful outsiders to "unmerge" themselves over a period of time. They do leave bodies behind. You can even eat them, if you want. Petitioners either merge with their plane or, if they worship a specific god, they merge with their god. If they are on another plane when they die, their spirits simply dissolve into the planes in general. I assume they leave bodies behind, but it's not completely clear. What of proxies? Are they simply called back to their god? If the proxy is an outsider, it merges with its god. If the proxy is a mortal, its soul goes to its god, who can decide what to do with it. Are any of these circumstances changed if a being dies in Sigil? Not officially, no. However, see The Soul Cage article on the Mimir.
#3 factol_rhys_dup Sep 21, 2005 14:34:04	Outsiders really, totally die when they are slain. The creature type was designed to represent exemplar creatures like fiends and celestials, which really are made of soul. So, when it bites the dust, it doesn't have a distinct part of its essence that flies away. The soul is the part that died. Its essence or energy or what-have-you probably returns to join with its home plane, and is eventually recycled into a new one. That's the problem with the Outsider type. It's not really applicable to just any creature that has a connection to a plane, when it could still be a living thing, just magically enhanced by that connection (and even worse, the creature type is certainly not applicable in the situations it is sometimes employed: "any creature that lives on another plane"). In answer to one of your questions, proxies can easily be made from mortal followers. So, while one power might have a trumpet archon as a proxy, another might have a human. Sure, the proxy is enhanced by the god's favor, but it can still be killed. Probably, most compassionate powers (and probably most uncompassionate gods, too) will revive their loyal heralds, and they could even have the power to revive a slain exemplar.
#4 ripvanwormer Sep 21, 2005 15:58:42	I should mention that while most outsiders leave corpses behind when they're truly killed (otherwise it wouldn't be possible to use things like pit fiend or deva hearts as spell components and to make magic items - and it is), and that at least some petitioners leave corpses (otherwise it wouldn't be possible to eat larva steak - yet many restaurants in Sigil carry it) there are at least a few exceptions to this. - Lantern archons, being incorporeal, obviously don't leave corpses. - Modrons never leave corpses. They entirely disappear when they die. If you want to use parts of them for things, you have to keep the rest of them alive. - I believe manes and balors explode when they die, leaving very little behind.
#5 kismetrose Sep 21, 2005 16:08:28	Thank you for your answers. They have been very helpful. The whole reason this came up was because of my player's question: so if a planar dies, do they leave a body behind? He wasn't just concerned about stealing their stuff or selling their bodies to the Dusties, either - he was worried about merely banishing a creature back to its home plane for 100 years, after which time it could try to get him. Since we're both new to Planescape and really weren't sure, I decided to ask here. Gotta love players.
#6 ripvanwormer Sep 21, 2005 18:53:21	That actually was the rule in 2e. See this thread.