Lupin influences [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lupin influences [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hugin
04-24-08, 11:11 AM (Wasn't sure what to call this thread)

This thread is for discussing how Lupins interacted with and affected the development of humans, and vise-versa.

Here's what started it:
BTW, GP had a quite nice idea connecting the Mictecs with the "original" Mictlán. The Mictecs created a lot of undeads and slaved the coyotl (thus reforcing the Oltec/Azcan concept that dogs are the ones that guide the souls to the afterlife; Toyna Qhuay's (Saimpt Loup) portfolio also helped this idea), before they got their rebelled and became the Chochomecs.
Could this "original" Mictlán be also a subterranean city as well, insiring Atruatzin to name his own subterranean settlement as Mictlán?
So here's some brain storming thoughts to get things started.

If the Lupins first appeared in western Brun we could have the first Lupin-human interaction happen between the Coyotl lupins and a number of Azcan tribes that will soon be known as the Mictecs. The Mictecs may have seen these dog-like people as having special powers and so enslaved them to gain these. (Remember that according to canon there are no real monster races as of yet; they were created during the GRoF).

GP's ideas for the Mictecs definitely makes them a unique culture that sprang out of the Azcans. The legends and stories that came out of their culture and traveled the rest of the Oltec Empire could be the source of the later myths surrounding the underworld city of Mictlán and the dogs that guide men's souls to the afterlife. (The stories having been corrupted from dog-men to spirit-dogs).

After the GRoF, the remnants of the the Oltecs and Azcans were mainly on Brun. As the HW info says, some had developed culturally distinct from the traditional grounds of the Oltecs and Azcans and they were left on the OW to continue their development.

The Mictecs could be the cultural bridge between the Azcans and Nithians. They would be responsible for introducing the concepts of undead, Coyotl lupins (soon-too-be Hutaakans), humanoids with animal heads in general, slavery, and the spiritual underworld of the afterlife.

Thoughts? Other Lupin influences?
Wilhelm_
04-24-08, 04:25 PM Yes, that's basically the idea, but with some different details. That's how we imagined the oltec history:

The lotomec culture (direct descendent of the orimul civilization) influenced other oltecindian groups, each with different languages: the Proto-Mictec, Tenac-Otzil and the Oltecs. The Lotomec were really afraid of displeasing the Immortals andbecame quite paranoid about that, worshipping not only the original oltec patrons but all known Immortals (including the entropics; Hel became quite important among them), sometimes even worshipping the same Immortal with two or more different names, believing them to be different beings.

When the Lotomec civilization ended, the Protecs and Mictecs, and the Tenac and Otzil, splited into different (but closely related) civilizations. The city-state that the Oltecs (and later Azcans) called Mictlán kept their devotion to Hel. But that's mainly because Hel clergy had access to a special concoction, related to the Black Drink (http://pandius.com/ambrzzng.html), combining Amber Lotus and Wolfsbane. This concoction was able to a limited mental control (quite weak than modern Black Drink), except for those vulnerable to Wolfsbane, such as the lupins. It also has the same property of the Black Drink of creating undeads and so the Mictec civilization and the Coyotl became quite related to the undeads. This helped Mictlán's imperialistic dreams, dominating many of it's neigbours protec city-states.

But eventually the Coyotl became quite used to wolfsbane. At first, elders that became undeads after years of exposure to the potion became inteligent and with free will and usually neutral Alignment. Some time later, even living coyotl were quite used to it, to the point that coyotl (including those living at HW today) became completely immune to its poisonous properties. And then they rebelled and estabilished the Chochomec civilization, with a strong reverence to the ancestors (that were indeed still among then, even if as undeads).

That happened while the Azcans acquire the oltec culture and then rebelled, creating the azcan empire. Both groups had similarities and thus allied thenselves against the Oltecs and their Tenac and Protec (and later, Tahuaca) allies.
Hugin
04-24-08, 08:26 PM Good story, Wilhelm. I have a few questions just to clarify things though. Is this taking place on Davania or Brun? I'm think Brun but not sure. Where abouts do you guys place Mictlán?

Is the Chochomec civilization Lupin? The HW says they are an Azcan tribe though.
Wilhelm_
04-24-08, 09:02 PM Is this taking place on Davania or Brun? I'm think Brun but not sure.

Actually, we were originally thinking about Brun, but honestly I think it could be either Brun or north Davania. The advantage of picking Brun is the proximity to Atruaghin and Nithia, and also closer to the Yazak Steppes, where the Aardovai (and, according to my theory, the Coyotl and the original Wolvenfolk breed) were.

Where abouts do you guys place Mictlán?

We never really placed them somewhere, excetp for "within the Oltec world". And it could be anywhere :)
But I'd place then closer to both the azcans (and the protecs closer to the Oltec empire) and, if possible, the Yazak Steppes. If we place the oltecindians on Brun, they may be at the City-States region (pehaps Bielagul is somehow connected to them?) or close to Graakhalia, if we want to use the "subterranean Mictlán" idea.

Is the Chochomec civilization Lupin? The HW says they are an Azcan tribe though.

Yes, it does. The lupin chochomecs idea actually came almost by acident. We were at first talking about the oltecs of SC: how they were, how they were organized, etc. GP suggested them as M-Mayas, and I suggested the name of Otzil (from both Otzitiotl and the RW Itzil people of Chichen Itza). We also talked about a possible otzil city-state that survived longer, until the ispans came. We placed it in Almarrón, since it's basically th M-Mexico (and the idea for its name, Tehil, came from it's modern name, Ciudad Tejillas). Then the idea of the Tehil/gnoll interaction came, that pehaps they could be "Coyotl Warriors", mercenaries working for Tehil.
The idea then evolved to also include a lupin breed at the oltec past, the Coyotl. The name Chochomec helped a lot, since the RW Chichimecs are the "dog people" (and it's possible than the oltec/azcan word for "lupin" is "Techocho"). Also, there is a RW mixtec tribe called Chocho (and we were not aware of that when we linkd the Chochomecs with the Mictec, that was a great coincidence).
Anyway, I guess that the Chochomecs were indeed a part of the Azcan empire by 3000BC, and so could be called as a azcan tribe.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hugin 04-24-08, 11:11 AM	(Wasn't sure what to call this thread) This thread is for discussing how Lupins interacted with and affected the development of humans, and vise-versa. Here's what started it: BTW, GP had a quite nice idea connecting the Mictecs with the "original" Mictlán. The Mictecs created a lot of undeads and slaved the coyotl (thus reforcing the Oltec/Azcan concept that dogs are the ones that guide the souls to the afterlife; Toyna Qhuay's (Saimpt Loup) portfolio also helped this idea), before they got their rebelled and became the Chochomecs. Could this "original" Mictlán be also a subterranean city as well, insiring Atruatzin to name his own subterranean settlement as Mictlán? So here's some brain storming thoughts to get things started. If the Lupins first appeared in western Brun we could have the first Lupin-human interaction happen between the Coyotl lupins and a number of Azcan tribes that will soon be known as the Mictecs. The Mictecs may have seen these dog-like people as having special powers and so enslaved them to gain these. (Remember that according to canon there are no real monster races as of yet; they were created during the GRoF). GP's ideas for the Mictecs definitely makes them a unique culture that sprang out of the Azcans. The legends and stories that came out of their culture and traveled the rest of the Oltec Empire could be the source of the later myths surrounding the underworld city of Mictlán and the dogs that guide men's souls to the afterlife. (The stories having been corrupted from dog-men to spirit-dogs). After the GRoF, the remnants of the the Oltecs and Azcans were mainly on Brun. As the HW info says, some had developed culturally distinct from the traditional grounds of the Oltecs and Azcans and they were left on the OW to continue their development. The Mictecs could be the cultural bridge between the Azcans and Nithians. They would be responsible for introducing the concepts of undead, Coyotl lupins (soon-too-be Hutaakans), humanoids with animal heads in general, slavery, and the spiritual underworld of the afterlife. Thoughts? Other Lupin influences?
Wilhelm_ 04-24-08, 04:25 PM	Yes, that's basically the idea, but with some different details. That's how we imagined the oltec history: The lotomec culture (direct descendent of the orimul civilization) influenced other oltecindian groups, each with different languages: the Proto-Mictec, Tenac-Otzil and the Oltecs. The Lotomec were really afraid of displeasing the Immortals andbecame quite paranoid about that, worshipping not only the original oltec patrons but all known Immortals (including the entropics; Hel became quite important among them), sometimes even worshipping the same Immortal with two or more different names, believing them to be different beings. When the Lotomec civilization ended, the Protecs and Mictecs, and the Tenac and Otzil, splited into different (but closely related) civilizations. The city-state that the Oltecs (and later Azcans) called Mictlán kept their devotion to Hel. But that's mainly because Hel clergy had access to a special concoction, related to the Black Drink (http://pandius.com/ambrzzng.html), combining Amber Lotus and Wolfsbane. This concoction was able to a limited mental control (quite weak than modern Black Drink), except for those vulnerable to Wolfsbane, such as the lupins. It also has the same property of the Black Drink of creating undeads and so the Mictec civilization and the Coyotl became quite related to the undeads. This helped Mictlán's imperialistic dreams, dominating many of it's neigbours protec city-states. But eventually the Coyotl became quite used to wolfsbane. At first, elders that became undeads after years of exposure to the potion became inteligent and with free will and usually neutral Alignment. Some time later, even living coyotl were quite used to it, to the point that coyotl (including those living at HW today) became completely immune to its poisonous properties. And then they rebelled and estabilished the Chochomec civilization, with a strong reverence to the ancestors (that were indeed still among then, even if as undeads). That happened while the Azcans acquire the oltec culture and then rebelled, creating the azcan empire. Both groups had similarities and thus allied thenselves against the Oltecs and their Tenac and Protec (and later, Tahuaca) allies.
Hugin 04-24-08, 08:26 PM	Good story, Wilhelm. I have a few questions just to clarify things though. Is this taking place on Davania or Brun? I'm think Brun but not sure. Where abouts do you guys place Mictlán? Is the Chochomec civilization Lupin? The HW says they are an Azcan tribe though.
Wilhelm_ 04-24-08, 09:02 PM	Is this taking place on Davania or Brun? I'm think Brun but not sure. Actually, we were originally thinking about Brun, but honestly I think it could be either Brun or north Davania. The advantage of picking Brun is the proximity to Atruaghin and Nithia, and also closer to the Yazak Steppes, where the Aardovai (and, according to my theory, the Coyotl and the original Wolvenfolk breed) were. Where abouts do you guys place Mictlán? We never really placed them somewhere, excetp for "within the Oltec world". And it could be anywhere :) But I'd place then closer to both the azcans (and the protecs closer to the Oltec empire) and, if possible, the Yazak Steppes. If we place the oltecindians on Brun, they may be at the City-States region (pehaps Bielagul is somehow connected to them?) or close to Graakhalia, if we want to use the "subterranean Mictlán" idea. Is the Chochomec civilization Lupin? The HW says they are an Azcan tribe though. Yes, it does. The lupin chochomecs idea actually came almost by acident. We were at first talking about the oltecs of SC: how they were, how they were organized, etc. GP suggested them as M-Mayas, and I suggested the name of Otzil (from both Otzitiotl and the RW Itzil people of Chichen Itza). We also talked about a possible otzil city-state that survived longer, until the ispans came. We placed it in Almarrón, since it's basically th M-Mexico (and the idea for its name, Tehil, came from it's modern name, Ciudad Tejillas). Then the idea of the Tehil/gnoll interaction came, that pehaps they could be "Coyotl Warriors", mercenaries working for Tehil. The idea then evolved to also include a lupin breed at the oltec past, the Coyotl. The name Chochomec helped a lot, since the RW Chichimecs are the "dog people" (and it's possible than the oltec/azcan word for "lupin" is "Techocho"). Also, there is a RW mixtec tribe called Chocho (and we were not aware of that when we linkd the Chochomecs with the Mictec, that was a great coincidence). Anyway, I guess that the Chochomecs were indeed a part of the Azcan empire by 3000BC, and so could be called as a azcan tribe.