2. In regards to sorcerer-kings, subdivided into two parts: (a) do you think Sadira could ever become Sorcerer-Queen of Tyr? I haven't read the novels in a long time but the supplementary material I've been reading paints her in a fairly shady light. (b) What's the nature of Andropinis's imprisonment in the black? What would it take to bust him out?
3. Is it just me, or does the revised campaign setting seem less stupendous than the original? It seems superficially similar, but the atmospheres of the two settings are totally different: in the original, the world was limited and static, with no progress being made over the course of thousands of years; with the revision, everything is in motion and all sorts of new areas are revealed. I don't want to use the original because I really enjoyed the Dark Sun novels and want their story to be incorporated, but I'm also less at ease planning a campaign for the revision. It seems like all the power players, the sorcerer-kings and whatnot, should be doing something now, when before it was perfectly reasonable for them to just phone it in. Any thoughts on how I could immediately restore the salt to the setting? Or do I just have the wrong perspective on it?
So although a slave in Tyr at the time of Tithian's edict would be free, a slave brought to Tyr by a merchant from Urik would still be a slave. Is this accurate?
I think that's right. Tyrian law can't interfere with the proprietary laws of other cities. If a Nibenese enters the walls of Tyr with a food animal he owns, animal about which Tyrian law says the animal can't be owned by anyone and is free for everyone to butcher anytime, then if the Nibenese can prove she is from Nibenay where the law says differently, then either...
a) no citizen can interfere with the Nibenese's ownership of the animal
or
b) after a probable brawl between the Nibenese and Tyrian citizens over the food animal, the city guard interferes and asks the Nibenese to depart the city limits with his animal since they cannot guarantee that his proprietary rights over it can be respected since those go against similar Tyrian laws
(a) do you think Sadira could ever become Sorcerer-Queen of Tyr? I haven't read the novels in a long time but the supplementary material I've been reading paints her in a fairly shady light.
(b) What's the nature of Andropinis's imprisonment in the black? What would it take to bust him out?
a) Sadira and the "Heroes of Tyr", as the public knows them, have publicly cast off the need for tyranny as government, tyranny as an essential element of tradition, and tyranny as a solidifying element for society without which chaos would become rampant. On the other end, IIRC Tithian blackmailed them in letting him become king of Tyr, but its clear that if Tithian had not made such a request there would not have been any king/queen of Tyr, and its also clear in the novels that the Heroes of Tyr intend for Tithian to be the last king of Tyr.
Already, the Senate is more powerful than Tithian and grows ever more powerful as time passes. Now that Tithian is considered dead, the city is officially without a sovereign and solidly into the hands of a kind of democracy (dunno which, but there are several types).
b) Andro can't leave the Black: he can't enter any other dimension, including Athas. It would take Rajaat to outright free him from there, or it would take an epic spell matching the powerful spell Rajaat used to imprison Andro.
basically everything SEEMS to be in motion with big changes and everything . . . and give that impression to your players and stuff, but when they start out all full of hopeful enthusiasm and the like, chip away at it little by little until they realize that it's just a big sham. nothing's going to change. sure some tyrants got killed. they were just swapped out for new tyrants. nothing will change. ever.
Rajaat mentioned 1,000 years IIRC.
and the original timeline for the exanded products has him escaping from the black something like 3 or 4 years later. one of those things from the unreleased products.
Aroo?
Actuelly Ole' Andro gets free after awhile, it was part of the spell Rajaat put on him, he isn't imprisoned for all time,. IIRC that is.
Why not??
Hmmm, with Ando stuck in the Black it means he is not dead. So, why then are his templars unable to recieve spells from Andro? I mean if some of his templars were able to make contact with him by becoming Shadow Priests (or whatever) in the DA2 adventure, what is to say he can't grant the rest of his templars spells? Is it part of the nature of his prison? Is it that he is just on another plane and therefore no link exists between the planes to empower his templars? Just wondering...
From what I know, the link is dead, because you can't contact outside the black. If that was possible Andro would probably not be locked in for long. Regardless of Rajaat's spell, he would have just contacted his royal wizards (defilers) and psions and find a way out.
Obviously, the "spell" Rajaat used was designed to physically stop him from exiting the dimension, yes, but also to contact the people outside of it through spells and powers.
So, that means the only way to contact Andro is to visit him or to use the exotic method that Asthira used in DA part 2.
It seems that the only people with whom Andro can trully communicate are shadow wizards, and then its possible that the communication occured when one such wizard travelled to the Black.
This cage or prison effectively cuts Andy off from his normal ability to communicate and grant his templars spells- but by using the Black he is able to send messages- like someone tapping on stone and someone else listening with their ear pressed against another part of the stone surface.
For the last question, remember the old saying that "the more things change, the mroe they stay the same."
basically everything SEEMS to be in motion with big changes and everything . . . and give that impression to your players and stuff, but when they start out all full of hopeful enthusiasm and the like, chip away at it little by little until they realize that it's just a big sham. nothing's going to change. sure some tyrants got killed. they were just swapped out for new tyrants. nothing will change. ever.
i disagree. even entropy and decay are an energy that have inertia...in fact you could argue that entropy and decay are direct functions of change. nothing is truly static, and i don't see the Dark Sun universe as being any different. even though the world seems to be falling apart, and a great imbalance exists between destruction and creation, it doesn't mean that it is doomed. in fact, it is this very idea that drives the themes of the setting. life struggles on despite hardship, tyrants fall, empires crumble. it is the heroes that strive towards a better future, even in the face of adversity, chaos and destruction. i refuse to see Dark Sun as a nihilistic world where nothing matters and everything is doomed. even its history has shown that the end of an age is the beginning of another, whatever it may be. creation, destruction, rebirth, metamorphosis, transcendance...all threads woven in the thematic fabric of the setting that cannot be denied. to say that nothing changes undermines the reason of the setting as a whole...then why heroes? why even try?
the Heroes of Tyr definitely proved otherwise...
i disagree. even entropy and decay are an energy that have inertia...in fact you could argue that entropy and decay are direct functions of change. nothing is truly static, and i don't see the Dark Sun universe as being any different. even though the world seems to be falling apart, and a great imbalance exists between destruction and creation, it doesn't mean that it is doomed. in fact, it is this very idea that drives the themes of the setting. life struggles on despite hardship, tyrants fall, empires crumble. it is the heroes that strive towards a better future, even in the face of adversity, chaos and destruction. i refuse to see Dark Sun as a nihilistic world where nothing matters and everything is doomed. even its history has shown that the end of an age is the beginning of another, whatever it may be. creation, destruction, rebirth, metamorphosis, transcendance...all threads woven in the thematic fabric of the setting that cannot be denied. to say that nothing changes undermines the reason of the setting as a whole...then why heroes? why even try?
As much as a DS traditionalist that I am, I have to agree with Brian. In fact it's one reason why I'm having a hard time getting one player that I have gamed with for a few years to give Dark Sun a chance (he did before, but that was a RL/DS hybrid I had going taking place in the domain of Kalidnay, and I had botched a few things and just got bored and gave up because most of the other players were too worried about power and all that and less worried about the overall story, which was partly my fault as well.)
When and if I ever run again, I want the hopelessness theme to stick, but be able to do it in a way that the heroes can use that to fuel their fire. More of a frustration thing, and are tired of it being the same and want to see some real change.
The hardest thing to do with this is to keep it slow going enough that it keeps with the overall theme of DS, and at the same time give the players the feeling of accomplishment that they are looking for.
I think if you can run DS the way most like to run it and can keep players, then don't change, but if you are running into the issue that I am, then obviously something needs to change a little. Not to mention that I personally think DS wasn't meant to be ran totally hopeless-like and nothing ever really changes despite how much change goes through the world, but that's purely subjective, I have no way of reading the designer's minds.
So, that means the only way to contact Andro is to visit him or to use the exotic method that Asthira used in DA part 2.
What way was that?
i disagree. even entropy and decay are an energy that have inertia...in fact you could argue that entropy and decay are direct functions of change. nothing is truly static, and i don't see the Dark Sun universe as being any different. even though the world seems to be falling apart, and a great imbalance exists between destruction and creation, it doesn't mean that it is doomed. in fact, it is this very idea that drives the themes of the setting. life struggles on despite hardship, tyrants fall, empires crumble. it is the heroes that strive towards a better future, even in the face of adversity, chaos and destruction. i refuse to see Dark Sun as a nihilistic world where nothing matters and everything is doomed. even its history has shown that the end of an age is the beginning of another, whatever it may be. creation, destruction, rebirth, metamorphosis, transcendance...all threads woven in the thematic fabric of the setting that cannot be denied. to say that nothing changes undermines the reason of the setting as a whole...then why heroes? why even try?
the Heroes of Tyr definitely proved otherwise...
I totally agree with that, otherwise it would be completely useless playing this world, not to mention designing it. This is just a period of hopelessness the world is going through, but there is allways a way of saving it. Maybe not in the nazi way Rajaat was trying, but like Brian said, the prism penthad heroes sure gave the hope a HUGE spark.
there's allways a way to succeed....my axe is my way....
What way was that?
***SPOILER***
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She "channels" Andro's shadow, replacing her own with his, so for a moment its Andro standing in front of the PCs, not Asthira.
***SPOILER***
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She "channels" Andro's shadow, replacing her own with his, so for a moment its Andro standing in front of the PCs, not Asthira.
I didn't mean to spoil anything. Just asked. Anyway, that's just what I thought that there's no way out unless you get help from the outside. And he can't contact anyone unless it's done the way you just explained.
Anyway, that's just what I thought that there's no way out unless you get help from the outside. And he can't contact anyone unless it's done the way you just explained.
Yes.
If I had to make a judgment call, set it down in stone, I'd say the following:
and the original timeline for the exanded products has him escaping from the black something like 3 or 4 years later. one of those things from the unreleased products.
So that is not possible?
For the last question, remember the old saying that "the more things change, the mroe they stay the same."
basically everything SEEMS to be in motion with big changes and everything . . . and give that impression to your players and stuff, but when they start out all full of hopeful enthusiasm and the like, chip away at it little by little until they realize that it's just a big sham. nothing's going to change. sure some tyrants got killed. they were just swapped out for new tyrants. nothing will change. ever.
Isn't the point of role-playing to have fun, rather than making your player's suffer in order to alieviate the hopelessness of your own life.