I once heard the difference described in this way. Dragonlance is about who the characters are. Greyhawk is more about what the characters do. In other words, Dragonlance tends to focus on character development, because you've got great authors creating great characters. If you think of Dragonlance, you think of Raistlin, Tanis, Sturm, Palin, Mina, Lord Soth, etc. If you think of Greyhawk, you think of great adventures, like Temple of Elemental Evil, Against the Giants, Vault of the Drow, etc.
Both have their attractions.
In the original campaign set, magic wasnt really a major element.
Hey thanks! I think that Greyhawk is more suited for me. Is it a low-fantasy (low-magic) setting? For me, FR is way too high-fantasy.
Given that Greyhawk is the default setting for 3rd edition D&D, it isn't very low-magic. Most D&D settings aren't, in fact. If you're looking for a low-fantasy setting, more in the vein of Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar or Robert E. Howard's Conan, you've got a number of published sourcebooks available for d20 gaming that can do that for you (including the Conan RPG). These typically change the basic rules of D&D to some extent to eliminate the dependence on magic items at high level, or make combat more gritty and realistic.
Some other products to look at include Monte Cook Presents: Iron Heroes, The Black Company, Grim Tales, the aforementioned Conan RPG, Midnight 2nd Edition, Iron Kingdoms Character Guide & World Guide (two books), and even Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (which isn't d20, but is a very popular grim and gritty fantasy game with low magic elements).
Hope that helps!
Cheers,
Cam
I once heard the difference described in this way. Dragonlance is about who the characters are. Greyhawk is more about what the characters do.
I'd say that's fairly accurate. When I think of Greyhawk, I tend to think of fantastic adventures. I wonder how the Realms would fit in with this formula. Would the Realms be described as "where characters go"?
Oh, and I wouldn't say that GH is low magic, either. Look back at Greyhawk Adventures, and you can see plenty of magic items in it. Combined with magical societies such as the Circle of Eight, and that's a formula for a fair amount of magic.
Oh, and I wouldn't say that GH is low magic, either. Look back at Greyhawk Adventures, and you can see plenty of magic items in it. Combined with magical societies such as the Circle of Eight, and that's a formula for a fair amount of magic.
Just because there are magic items in a book doesnt mean they are commonly available. Most of the items in Greyhawk adventures are unique items, that only one exists of.
Given that Greyhawk is the default setting for 3rd edition D&D, it isn't very low-magic.
That's because Greyhawk isn't really the default setting, despite what WotC may say. The default setting is a watered down bastardization of Greyhawk. The Greyhawk I know and love is more gritty, has a lower level of magic, and has a Lawful Good St. Cuthbert.
I'd say that's fairly accurate. When I think of Greyhawk, I tend to think of fantastic adventures. I wonder how the Realms would fit in with this formula. Would the Realms be described as "where characters go"?
Perhaps. But I'd be more inclined to say that the Realms are about who the characters meet (ie, uberpowerful NPCs). At least my current Forgotten Realms DM isn't falling prey to that trap too much....
Oh, and I wouldn't say that GH is low magic, either. Look back at Greyhawk Adventures, and you can see plenty of magic items in it. Combined with magical societies such as the Circle of Eight, and that's a formula for a fair amount of magic.
Just because there are magic items in a book doesnt mean they are commonly available. Most of the items in Greyhawk adventures are unique items, that only one exists of.
Right. And the Circle of Eight don't flash their magic around. They only get involved when something major threatens the balance.
That's because Greyhawk isn't really the default setting, despite what WotC may say. The default setting is a watered down bastardization of Greyhawk. The Greyhawk I know and love is more gritty, has a lower level of magic, and has a Lawful Good St. Cuthbert.
I would hazard a guess that the Greyhawk you know and love is a 1st edition AD&D setting, not a 3.5 setting, in that case.
Cheers,
Cam
I would hazard a guess that the Greyhawk you know and love is a 1st edition AD&D setting, not a 3.5 setting, in that case.
Cheers,
Cam
In a sense yes, because it was made for 1e.
But in a sense no, because I play 3.5. Not 3.5 strictly by the book (as you seem to be able to tell), but 3.5 nonetheless.
For the record, though, the Greyhawk presented in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer doesn't have to be high magic either.
For the record, though, the Greyhawk presented in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer doesn't have to be high magic either.
No, it doesn't, and I certainly wouldn't class it in the same ballpark as the Realms or Eberron, but I similarly would never call it low-magic. It's always had as much magic as the version of D&D that it's been written for, and any quick look through the published adventures, boxed sets, and supplements for Greyhawk will tell you that magic is not scarce or rare.
Cheers,
Cam
No, it doesn't, and I certainly wouldn't class it in the same ballpark as the Realms or Eberron, but I similarly would never call it low-magic. It's always had as much magic as the version of D&D that it's been written for, and any quick look through the published adventures, boxed sets, and supplements for Greyhawk will tell you that magic is not scarce or rare.
Cheers,
Cam
Certainly. It has a lower level of magic, but, you're right, in itself it's not low-magic (it's got more magic than, say, Middle-Earth, for example).
The Matrix: Lots of wierd, philosophical and technological things all around you, but they are toned down just enough to believe that it's real. When something out of the "ordinary" happens, it's big, it has an impact, it's fantastic. This is Dragonlance.
The Matrix Reloaded: Take the cool parts from above and dump it on you every minute of the film until your head hurts with special-effects overload. This, does not a great sequal make. Enter the Forgotten Realms, where the population is higher than China, there are stupid-powerful NPC's at every turn who could care less about the state/fate of the world, every item is magical, and every country/nation/empire/city-state has four climate zones in it. Man, I wanted this one to be good, but after thorough watching and playing (the movie and the D&D Campaign Setting), it continues to disappoint people who understand good story-telling.
The Matrix Revolutions: A 2 hour episode of DragonBallZ guest-starring Jesus. While this doesn't fit in with the rest of this post, it was certainly worth stating.
Greyhawk, at least traditionally, fits in with the first setting description. There's really not a high level of magic per se, but the world isn't story driven either. Greyhawk is definitely play-driven. Dungeon crawls galore! It's probably the best for people who just want to trim the fat and play the game. If you wish to create an epic saga where the fate of the world will [involuntarily] end up in your hands....play Dragonlance. Both are swell. Opie said so.