Is this elaborated in any product, or have others come up with their own interpretations? Are there any stories that appeared from other cultures? Do elves or dwarves believe something different? Do the various stories agree in any way, or is death as much of a mystery to Mystarans as it is to us today?
Finally, has anyone ever explored, in Mystara, what someone brought back from the dead remembers? Either in- or out-of-character.
Heh. Gives me an idea. Get enough diamond dust together... Mystaran Flatliners.
But seriously... I'm interested to know if there's any baseline, or I should just make it all up. ^_^ Would also love to hear what alla y'all have come up with!
Regards,
Gary
Is this elaborated in any product, or have others come up with their own interpretations? Are there any stories that appeared from other cultures? Do elves or dwarves believe something different? Do the various stories agree in any way, or is death as much of a mystery to Mystarans as it is to us today?
It generally is a mystery to the average Mystaran. Not many return from the dead. However, the topic was fully explored by Bruce Heard in one of the VotPA articles on Dragon Magazine (between the Renardie and Bellayne articles).
There, Raman Nabonidus, third officer and sage of the Princess Ark, dies, goes to Limbo, and finally manages to return to life and the prime material.
Basically, when a Mystaran dies, his spirit leaves the body and the prime material plane, and goes to a boundary plane, Limbo (not the Planescape Limbo, but something like the Ethereal). Mystaran deaders are not automatically able to reach the Outer Planes on their own (as would in the general PS version of the prime material). Rather, Immortals send their servants (archons and the like) to collect the souls of their followers from Limbo.
This usually happens soon after death, so the deader doesn't have an especially good picture of Limbo.
OTOH, those who didn't follow the teaching of an Immortal (or group of Immortals) are stuck in Limbo, which is pretty full of ghost and assorted undead. Moreover, Entropic Immortals send their own minions (Minions of Chaos) to collect these souls for their own uses.
Therefore, the deaders collect into makeshift towns for protection.
They have the option of staying there, or venturing outside to find a gate to some outer plane (usually one matching their philosophic/moral standing).
If they choose to stay, there is an additional problem: the only currency of Limbo is lifeforce, which these ghost-like entities are able to absorb from each other. This means they have to work out some way to earn more lifeforce, in order to pay for whatever good they need.
Since newcomers are usually short on all kind of stuff -- except lifeforce, of course -- they're often forced to spend much of their lifeforce. When lifeforce runs out, the soul itself ceases to exist -- making it non-resurrectable.
Finally, has anyone ever explored, in Mystara, what someone brought back from the dead remembers? Either in- or out-of-character.
Said Raman Nabonidus enters his story in the ship's journal, so at least he does remember everything. However, it may be linked to the fact that he remained in Limbo for a time (one or two days, IIRC), and came back on his own (he wasn't raised or resurrected).
People who went straight to the Outer Planes and/or were raised by a cleric may of course have different memories -- most likely none at all.
Early on in the campaign, two characters died at different times.
A Northern Reaches barbarian called 'Y' - he used to leave his enemies bodies arranged in the form of a 'Y until he found out that it was the symbol of a certain immortal ;). He was attacked by 2 nightwalkers upon reaching Limbo until rescued by a servant of Thor who then escorted him to the safety of Thor's home plane.
The second character was a Glantri wizard - no immortal intervention here
- who just wandered around a grey featureless plain, until his soul was recalled back to his body thanks to the church in Threshold.Since newcomers are usually short on all kind of stuff -- except lifeforce, of course -- they're often forced to spend much of their lifeforce. When lifeforce runs out, the soul itself ceases to exist -- making it non-resurrectable.
The way I dealt with this was that the longer a soul stayed in Limbo the more XP they lost when the soul was recalled, instead of the general 'you come back a level down with half the XP needed for next level'. So, if the resurrection is quick enough they may not lose that level.
Regards,
Gary
The way I dealt with this was that the longer a soul stayed in Limbo the more XP they lost when the soul was recalled, instead of the general 'you come back a level down with half the XP needed for next level'. So, if the resurrection is quick enough they may not lose that level.
Although Limbo exists IMC, I have never made much use of it in actual play. I liked how Liches have to spend some time there before then can attain true Lichdom and how it is possible for those stuck on Limbo to become powerful undead if they play their cards right.
I am wondering why it has to be a separate plane from the Ethereal though. Wouldnt it make as much sense if they were the same thing?
Håvard
I am wondering why it has to be a separate plane from the Ethereal though. Wouldnt it make as much sense if they were the same thing?
Oh, it would. Yet it would also make it too easy to access Limbo, making it a bit surprising that Mystarans, especially mages, know so little about it.
YMMV.
Still, Limbo can be made to work with the BD&D cosmology. If it's where dead people go, it's just outside of that system entirely... perhaps even Immortals find it hard to go there. I'm not sure I really like the idea of Immortals being so closely tied into its function, however. I seem to remember hints (particularly in WotI) that Immortals have very little to do with the afterlife.
Hmm.
Thank you for the input, everyone.
It gives me stuff to think about, and plan my own version. ^_^Oh, it would. Yet it would also make it too easy to access Limbo, making it a bit surprising that Mystarans, especially mages, know so little about it.
Point. Does the article say anything about it being difficult to enter though?
In 3E terms it is probably cotermous with both the Ethereal and the Prime Material Plane, though perhaps there is something preventing normal access?
Håvard
Inspired by some of the sourcebooks that have come out over the past couple years that essentially allow players to play "dead characters" (Fast Forward's "Dungeon World" being my favorite), I came up with a set of rules that allow players to continue playing the "soul" of their character without leaving the plane they died on. They feel the pull of their final resting place upon death, but may choose to ignore it if they wish. This opens up all sorts of interesting posibilities for an incorporeal, invisible spirit that either wishes to wander around their home plane rather than permanatly retire or that chooses to possess a *insert-your-favorite-noun-here* and continue play in another form.
I had originally written this for my Mystara/Blackmoor campaign, but, I'll warn you now, no specific setting information was included in the final product (copyright and licensing reasons and all that) and it was converted to d20 (no OD&D or AD&D stats, but they shouldn't be too difficult to convert). Still, if your interested in running a game with mixed living and deceased characters, it may help. Check out "Athenaeum Arcane: Options for the Dead" by Ronin Arts, available on rpgnow.com. I was the sole author, thus the "shameless self-promotion" note.
Although I really like the idea of playing in the "afterlife", the major problem for me was that if an adventure doesn't result in a Total Party Kill, the party can essentially gets split into two seperate campaigns quite easily (what the living are doing and what the "dead" are doing). With "Options for the Dead", I tried to rectify that by providing mechanics for allowing both the living and "dead" to continue adventuring together.
If you check it out, I hope its useful for you.
-Sheridan
Point. Does the article say anything about it being difficult to enter though?
In 3E terms it is probably cotermous with both the Ethereal and the Prime Material Plane, though perhaps there is something preventing normal access?
Håvard
Limbo could be the Nightmare Dimension version of the Ethereal, explaining why the Immortals tend to send their minions to collect Souls instead of going themselves. Extending this theory, poltergeists naturally found on the Ethereal might be spirits of Diaboli, explaining their natural animosity to living "normals".