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#1PennarinOct 23, 2005 11:18:34 | Remember about a year ago I started a thread about weither or not people thought magic versions of psionic tattoos (like FR did) had their place in DS? Well I made an item that allows just that, although its restricted to templars and royal defilers (that's not going to stop a determined wizard, however).
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#2zombiegleemaxOct 23, 2005 12:22:02 | Pennarin, I was also wondering about how tattoos and magic / psionics might be incorportated into the DS world. Your idea is very evocative and very creative. Your post makes me thing about the potential for magic / psionic powers in other types of body markings, including brands and ritual scars. I'll re-examine some old AD&D on Viking runic magic for more ideas. itf |
#3PennarinOct 23, 2005 12:37:31 | Thanks for commenting itf ! This was not designed as a straight item used to create magic "tattoos" (any mark put on the skin falls into that category). Instead, it was designed as yet another means to infiltrate the Veiled Alliance (I have several others, including a vase that produces a magical condensate of life energy one can drink and that replaces the need to gather energy, and a druid-made cursed bracelet that forces a defiler to preserve [intentionnaly sought after and used by royal defilers]). Considering, i like how this item allows a wizard to walk in a city with up to 20 "scrolls" in scar format on his skin, with very little chance of being noticed by a guard or templar ("very little" varies from one DM to another). |
#4kalthandrixOct 23, 2005 13:15:28 | Very cool Pennarin- I would have commented soomer but I have been out all day playing paintball with some buddies. Would the branse detect as magic- I think they should. Also, maybe just as a way to make it more in keeping with any gift of a SK, make the brand inflict like d4 or 1hp/ lvl of spell so branded- All gifts given by the Sk's are two edged swords. Power in exchange for pain. Anyway- very cool. I may just have to introduce something like this in my game sometime. |
#5zombiegleemaxOct 26, 2005 8:55:11 | Pennarin, Sorry to hear that you didn't like the idea about "magic tattoos." I thought that it could add some interesting flavor to Athas... Your idea about using tattoos to infilitrate the Veiled Alliance is still cool though. I liked Kalthandrix's ideas of the tattoos inflicted physical damage in exchange for yielding magical power. That stays consistent with the magic driven by lifeforce concept. I don't mean to highjack your thread, but the phrase "magic tattoos" stirred up some ideas in my head, so I thought I could include them here: The runic magic section in the "Vikings" historical reference provided some interesting ideas too. Perhaps enchantments could be bound to tattoos, brands, or ritual scars for a "one-time-only" purpose. For example, a person couldn't get a tattoo that would give him or her a +1 attack bonus against all defilers, but maybe he / she could get a +1 attack bonus against Fevil, the defiler that killed his / her family. I think that this would be interesting because it would give the tattoo meaning and add to the history of the character. Speaking of history, perhaps bards could keep some of their lore and tales tattooed onto their bodies as well. Their bodies could serve as an informal repositories of Athasian history. Any more thoughts? itf |
#6PennarinOct 26, 2005 9:11:06 | Mmm, my comments were based on an earlier thread about magic tattoos that was full of opinions, the overall feeling detaching itself from these opinions being that magic tattoos originating from a Craft Magic Tattoo feat do not have their place on Athas where magic is supposed to be rarer in this day and age than psionics, which alreay have Craft Psionic Tattoo anyway. As such, I first tried to create a spell that produced a series of marks you could choose from, and those would fill the niche of the magic tattoo. But the current idea of the brand that transforms magic scrolls into wearable marks is far better in my opinion. Still, its unrelated to an actual Craft Magic Tattoo feat and that's the way I and the community - last I made my poll - liked it. I do surmise, though, that like any item meant to be used one way by its creators, this brand will be used and copied by others for their own gains unrelated to infiltrating the VA. As for Kalthandrix's ideas of the marks inflicting some kind of damage on the target because the magic comes from the SKs I don't like, not that its not appropriate for novels but not for the current rules of D&D: Since its in the best interest of the government to facilitate the use of its creations, there is thus no positive gain from adding a curse to a magic item sponsored by the government. Its doubly so an irrelevant addition to the makeup of the item since adding a curse actually costs more than not adding it. Doing this would be like saying: "We'll make sure the use of ours items is tieresome, unconfortable, or potentially deadly to our servants, and make it costlier for us to make too." |
#7kalthandrixOct 26, 2005 9:53:21 | As for Kalthandrix's ideas of the marks inflicting some kind of damage on the target because the magic comes from the SKs I don't like, not that its not appropriate for novels but not for the current rules of D&D: Since its in the best interest of the government to facilitate the use of its creations, there is thus no positive gain from adding a curse to a magic item sponsored by the government. Its doubly so an irrelevant addition to the makeup of the item since adding a curse actually costs more than not adding it. Curse Who said anything about a curse. I do not care if it is magical or mundane- if you have a red-hot piece of metal thrust onto your flesh it is going to burn you. The heat is a by-product of the process, not a curse, so I have no idea why you think this would increase the cost. And yes- the templars within the city-states would use these kind of items to help them gain access to the VA- and having a fresh burn that looks to be a slave-mark (branding is common with slave property)- now it would be awefully strange is said burns did not hurt and it would give them a better cover story. The amount of damage I was proposing is in no way deadly, but maybe high. If there were to be a small amount of damage, say 1 hp/level of spell, that would be vey reasonable and there is president for magical items that are not cursed but cause damage to the wielder- the vicious weapon enchantment comes to mind off-hand. I like the item and I think that the addition of a small amount of damage is in keeping with the setting and the creators of such an item. |
#8PennarinOct 26, 2005 12:23:55 | Curse Who said anything about a curse. I do not care if it is magical or mundane- if you have a red-hot piece of metal thrust onto your flesh it is going to burn you. The heat is a by-product of the process, not a curse, so I have no idea why you think this would increase the cost. That's not the way you were puting it, why I made this comment. You said a gift from the SK ought to be offset by pain, paying a price. The brand inflicting no damage is based on other brands that already exist from WotC/Malhavoc and that do not inflict pain. At best I could say the brand inflicts 1 point of damage. Its about 1 inch across after all. I mentionned a curse because I thought it was what this mechanic looked like. A curse like those from the DMG. The curse would inflict, say, 1d4 points of damage to the user of an item each time he activates it. That's what I immediately thought of when you mentionned damage. |
#9PennarinOct 26, 2005 12:34:25 | And yes- the templars within the city-states would use these kind of items to help them gain access to the VA- and having a fresh burn that looks to be a slave-mark (branding is common with slave property)- now it would be awefully strange is said burns did not hurt and it would give them a better cover story. Slaves, IMO, are not the only ones walking around with scarrifications: free gladiators, organization members, royal defilers, anyone counting the number of kills he has made, etc. Tattoos are the prefered marks, yes: they look better. But they cost money, while scars cost nothing, so a guy with a simple knife and some determination can go a long way. As such, people with magic scrolls in scar format would not appear strange in the least, and could always cover the scars with sleeves, if, for example, they are respectable old men such as councilman or nobles. If there were to be a small amount of damage, say 1 hp/level of spell, that would be vey reasonable and there is president for magical items that are not cursed but cause damage to the wielder- the vicious weapon enchantment comes to mind off-hand. Still, it can be deadly for a 1st level character. I have to assume even 1st level characters are used to infiltrate the VA, say, as guards, lookouts, or message runners. I like the item and I think that the addition of a small amount of damage is in keeping with the setting and the creators of such an item. Then token damage, like 1 point, is appropriate. Losing half of your hit points to a one inch scar is unrealistic. |
#10zombiegleemaxOct 26, 2005 21:20:25 | This fellow is a bit defensive isn't he. Chill Pen and repeat after me "It is only a game. It is only a game." Next I suggest drinking something fermented and getting away from the box you are currently stating at :D . Or not ;) |
#11PennarinOct 26, 2005 22:24:40 | Heh, I prefer "Spock-like" or "informative", but that's just me. ;) I'm a big believer in voicing my opinion when it happens to be contrary to others, so as to create a dialogue, although people seem to think me defensive/agressive, while I just am actively pursuing my line of reasoning at the time. Those who have been here for long know I sometimes change my opinion, usually after other people's opinions have marinated long enough in my brain. Thank god I'm not Overlord with his Black Knight syndrome of the I'm-Never-Wrong kind. [splayed fingers] Live long and prosper. [/splayed fingers] |
#12ruhl-than_sageOct 26, 2005 23:32:02 | Heh, I prefer "Spock-like" or "informative", but that's just me. ;) Keep it up Penn, it stimulates discussion :D . |
#13ruhl-than_sageOct 26, 2005 23:46:56 | Slaves, IMO, are not the only ones walking around with scarrifications: free gladiators, organization members, royal defilers, anyone counting the number of kills he has made, etc. Thats a good point. I had always gone with tattoos for spells incoded on the spellcaster's flesh, but scars would be far superior. You make a good point about the commoness of scars and their practicality. From the standpoint of a preserver who wants to hide his spellbook and make sure he never loses it, scars are far superior. Its perfectly understandable why someone would want to hide their scars and would feel uncomfortable if someone was looking at them, on top of that most people wouldn't ask to see your scars especially if you cover them up. Tattoos on the other hand are usually meant to be seen, are much easier to see clearly and automatically imply intentionality, leading to questions such as why did you get that tattoo? and what do your tattoos mean? With scars you can act uncomfortable and embarassed if anyone asks you about them and no one will think its wierd. As another bonus, scars are raised and can be felt to determine their contours, with a tattoo you'd have to actually see it, but with a scar it could be possible to read the spells through sense of touch rather than sight. That relates to another benefit, its easy to tell what the shape of tattoos are, but much harder to see the exact shape of scars. |