Shire / Karameikos Border Revisited - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Shire / Karameikos Border Revisited

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Hugin
Oct 25, 2005 14:35:23
The Five Shires Gazetteer wrote:
#2
spellweaver
Oct 25, 2005 15:04:02
So, what do you say? Should the hex map border be declared the authority, or should the text have precedence?

I've thought about it before and I remember seeing borders on the Alphatia map I think it was that follow rivers etc. instead of hexes. To me it looks confusing and weird.

I never took the hexes too literally. I mean, forest don't grow in hexes, mountains don't form in hexes and deserts rarely stop spreading outside a predetermined hex shape. So, IMHO, border lines on maps should be taken as approximate as the contents of the hexes.

To answer your question: If you feel like defining a lot of realistic "natural" borders, go ahead and do so. Otherwise just use the hex approximation.

:-) Jesper
#3
Hugin
Oct 25, 2005 15:36:34 I absolutely agree with you, Spellweaver. The hexes are just approximate and representative of positions and terrain. I think that is pretty much a given.

What makes this a little different is that the map and text differ by more than one hex. In fact, the difference is by as much as 3 hexes, which is why I thought it to be significant. Of course that a 'hexed' border that seems to follow a river (whose paths are roughly 'hexed' as well) implies that the river is the border. It's just that this case is far from following the river. See where I'm coming from?
#4
spellweaver
Oct 25, 2005 16:32:39
See where I'm coming from?

Well, the gaz says that the river seperates the Grand Duchy from the Shires. It says further down on page 10 that the animosity shown by the Black Eagle Baron has meant that no more new barges run over the Cruth river. Perhaps the old border ran along the river and the current border on the maps are just a picture of where hin currently settle under the protection of the Shire armies. The land between the new border and the river could be given up to wilderness because no one wants to live too close to the slavers of Fort Doom and their orc or lizardman mercenaries?

:-) Jesper
#5
pointman
Oct 25, 2005 19:24:57 The same on the Eastern Border with Thyatis, i feel that the border shiould run along the Rugalov River. Why do the Vyalia Elves seperate their land, shouldn't their treaty with Thyatis give them control over all eastern woods of the River Rugalov.
#6
Cthulhudrew
Oct 25, 2005 20:38:18
The same on the Eastern Border with Thyatis, i feel that the border shiould run along the Rugalov River. Why do the Vyalia Elves seperate their land, shouldn't their treaty with Thyatis give them control over all eastern woods of the River Rugalov.

I imagine that, for all intents and purposes, the Vyalia elves do indeed control all of the woodlands separating Karameikos and Thyatis. I doubt they have much interest in defining those borders, per se, but if one were to define them, both Karameikos and Thyatis would lose some of their mainland territories for sure.

They probably should have redefined the borders when the DotE boxed set came out (I suspect that the Vyalia's isolation is the reason they didn't do anything when Gaz1 came out), and made all of the land east of the Rugalov and including the County of Vyalia into the county. I still think it is kind of dumb that the Vyalia would bother including themselves as a Thyatian county at all, frankly, and think that region should be completely autonomous.

Again, though, all of those woods should be considered by the Vyalia to be Vyalian territory, and perhaps the "County of Vyalia" is simply a way of appeasing imperial powers by instituting what is essentially an administrative region of the area they control. Since Stefan isn't as power hungry as the Thyatians, and certainly not as capable of threatening the elves, they probably just haven't bothered to set something similar up on the Karameikan side of the border.

As others have said, I think the hex borders are for mapping purposes and out-of-game info more than anything else. The western borders (heck, much of Karameikos) isn't really all that settled, and there are likely very little in the region between the Shires and Karameikos besides monsters, swamp dwellers (like the guys in "Treasure of the Hideous One") and of course, Halag/the Black Eagle Barony.
#7
spellweaver
Oct 26, 2005 5:50:42
swamp dwellers (like the guys in "Treasure of the Hideous One")

What's that? A canon adventure?

:-) Jesper
#8
Cthulhudrew
Oct 26, 2005 6:45:18
What's that? A canon adventure?

It's the little mini-adventure that was included with the Dungeon Master's Screen (AC2 or something like that). It takes place in western Karameikos. The map of the region given doesn't, unfortunately, quite mesh up with the later maps of the area (the 8 mile hex maps), but it's close enough.
#9
spellweaver
Oct 26, 2005 6:46:48
It's the little mini-adventure that was included with the Dungeon Master's Screen (AC2 or something like that).

I see. Is it any good?

:-) Jesper
#10
havard
Oct 26, 2005 13:42:03
I see. Is it any good?

Its o.k. ;)

Håvard

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Hugin Oct 25, 2005 14:35:23	The Five Shires Gazetteer wrote:
#2 spellweaver Oct 25, 2005 15:04:02	So, what do you say? Should the hex map border be declared the authority, or should the text have precedence? I've thought about it before and I remember seeing borders on the Alphatia map I think it was that follow rivers etc. instead of hexes. To me it looks confusing and weird. I never took the hexes too literally. I mean, forest don't grow in hexes, mountains don't form in hexes and deserts rarely stop spreading outside a predetermined hex shape. So, IMHO, border lines on maps should be taken as approximate as the contents of the hexes. To answer your question: If you feel like defining a lot of realistic "natural" borders, go ahead and do so. Otherwise just use the hex approximation. :-) Jesper
#3 Hugin Oct 25, 2005 15:36:34	I absolutely agree with you, Spellweaver. The hexes are just approximate and representative of positions and terrain. I think that is pretty much a given. What makes this a little different is that the map and text differ by more than one hex. In fact, the difference is by as much as 3 hexes, which is why I thought it to be significant. Of course that a 'hexed' border that seems to follow a river (whose paths are roughly 'hexed' as well) implies that the river is the border. It's just that this case is far from following the river. See where I'm coming from?
#4 spellweaver Oct 25, 2005 16:32:39	See where I'm coming from? Well, the gaz says that the river seperates the Grand Duchy from the Shires. It says further down on page 10 that the animosity shown by the Black Eagle Baron has meant that no more new barges run over the Cruth river. Perhaps the old border ran along the river and the current border on the maps are just a picture of where hin currently settle under the protection of the Shire armies. The land between the new border and the river could be given up to wilderness because no one wants to live too close to the slavers of Fort Doom and their orc or lizardman mercenaries? :-) Jesper
#5 pointman Oct 25, 2005 19:24:57	The same on the Eastern Border with Thyatis, i feel that the border shiould run along the Rugalov River. Why do the Vyalia Elves seperate their land, shouldn't their treaty with Thyatis give them control over all eastern woods of the River Rugalov.
#6 Cthulhudrew Oct 25, 2005 20:38:18	The same on the Eastern Border with Thyatis, i feel that the border shiould run along the Rugalov River. Why do the Vyalia Elves seperate their land, shouldn't their treaty with Thyatis give them control over all eastern woods of the River Rugalov. I imagine that, for all intents and purposes, the Vyalia elves do indeed control all of the woodlands separating Karameikos and Thyatis. I doubt they have much interest in defining those borders, per se, but if one were to define them, both Karameikos and Thyatis would lose some of their mainland territories for sure. They probably should have redefined the borders when the DotE boxed set came out (I suspect that the Vyalia's isolation is the reason they didn't do anything when Gaz1 came out), and made all of the land east of the Rugalov and including the County of Vyalia into the county. I still think it is kind of dumb that the Vyalia would bother including themselves as a Thyatian county at all, frankly, and think that region should be completely autonomous. Again, though, all of those woods should be considered by the Vyalia to be Vyalian territory, and perhaps the "County of Vyalia" is simply a way of appeasing imperial powers by instituting what is essentially an administrative region of the area they control. Since Stefan isn't as power hungry as the Thyatians, and certainly not as capable of threatening the elves, they probably just haven't bothered to set something similar up on the Karameikan side of the border. As others have said, I think the hex borders are for mapping purposes and out-of-game info more than anything else. The western borders (heck, much of Karameikos) isn't really all that settled, and there are likely very little in the region between the Shires and Karameikos besides monsters, swamp dwellers (like the guys in "Treasure of the Hideous One") and of course, Halag/the Black Eagle Barony.
#7 spellweaver Oct 26, 2005 5:50:42	swamp dwellers (like the guys in "Treasure of the Hideous One") What's that? A canon adventure? :-) Jesper
#8 Cthulhudrew Oct 26, 2005 6:45:18	What's that? A canon adventure? It's the little mini-adventure that was included with the Dungeon Master's Screen (AC2 or something like that). It takes place in western Karameikos. The map of the region given doesn't, unfortunately, quite mesh up with the later maps of the area (the 8 mile hex maps), but it's close enough.
#9 spellweaver Oct 26, 2005 6:46:48	It's the little mini-adventure that was included with the Dungeon Master's Screen (AC2 or something like that). I see. Is it any good? :-) Jesper
#10 havard Oct 26, 2005 13:42:03	I see. Is it any good? Its o.k. ;) Håvard