The good thing about this is that we no longer have Elminster or Lord Soth popping in on our local boys. (That bugged me.)
But the downside is that trips to alternate Prime Planes became a much rarer motif. How many of you folks stuck with the 2nd-edition "one-Outer-Ring-to-rule-them-all" cosmology, and how many adopted the "entire cosmology for each Prime Plane" format which replaced it officially?
However, if you remove that issue, then I do still like the idea of having a whole bunch of worlds that share a cosmology (the whole Planescape and Spelljammer thing). In fact, you can have both. While travelling from Oerth to Krynn may require going through the Plane of Shadow, there could be other worlds that can be reached from Oerth via Spelljamming, for example.
In some cosmologies, the Prime Material Plane may have only one world, while other Prime Planes may have multiple worlds.
For example, if PCs find a way to travel to other prime worlds, they may decide to find one that suits them better. They might stop caring about Greyhawk.
However as a DM running old school adventures, I do have a few cases to work out. If I run expedition to barrier peaks, I introduce the concept of other worlds in space. The PCs might feel cheated if they couldn't use divination magic and other powerful means to gain access to that world.
The other case is Lolth's Demonweb in Q3, which appears to be connected to many alternate primes. If she has taken over multiple worlds, then Greyhawk is just another feather in her cap. It seems to diminish the importance of the PC's world.
Another problem I have is with deities. If there are infinite worlds full of followers, it stands to reason the deities concern for them would be infintesimally small. If Greyhawk is the only home to mortals, the deities would be very interested in their doings, hence clerics and such.
Sorry to ramble. To answer the question, I like one great wheel cosmology, and one prime plane, with limited exceptions. I don't include other settings that require their own cosmology. Planescape can work, and Ravenloft, and Castle Amber, but not Eberron as written, or FR, or Dragonlance, etc.
One other thing, parallel worlds tend to open up holes in the plot continuum. Example DC comics, Star Trek's 'Mirror Mirror' episodes, etc.
If there are infinite worlds full of followers, it stands to reason the deities concern for them would be infintesimally small.
Only if there are a finite number of gods. If most gods are only known on a handful of worlds at most, this isn't a problem.
That certainly doesn't alleviate the "little fish in a big pond" problem, of course. One thing you could do is simply establish a small number of worlds, being careful not to make any of the ones you don't want to set your campaign on too interesting - maybe a few ideas a piece, with the storylines all leading back to Oerth.
I figured that if some other prime (Dragonlance for instance) didn't have the same view of the outerr planes, it was more due their own ignorance than an actual separate cosmology. No offense to Dragonlance fans! If I remember correctly, there was simply the abyss for the evil planes. I figured they were simply not as well versed in planar travel as Oerthans (Oerthians?) or those from the Toril.
The other case is Lolth's Demonweb in Q3, which appears to be connected to many alternate primes. If she has taken over multiple worlds, then Greyhawk is just another feather in her cap. It seems to diminish the importance of the PC's world.
Not important to Lolth, but important to the inhabitants of Oerth. What's important is relative.
One wheel to find them
One wheel to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them
No problem with PCs jumping from Greyhawk to Toril to Dark Sun to Middle Earth. The only hard part is making the plot work.
What I didn't like was the SJ notion that the various gods worshipped in different worlds were in fact the same beings, only known by different names (i.e. Chemosh = Myrkul = Nerull). While I can understand the logic behind such a choice, it invalidated much of what had been written about the way these deities acted. For instance, why would they be reluctant to act in one world but take active part in the way another was run?
No, though it means crowded outer planes, I much prefer each world's pantheon existing side by side with the others rather than suffering a constant identity crisis.
And about that whole, deities being the same thing... where was that? neither CoAS or LotV says anything about deities all being the same, in fact i think they say the opposite...
I dunno, i'm new enough to D&D that i missed all this stuff and just now looking at the older(and 90% of the time much cooler) stuff from the bygone eras so maybe i just missed that
For instance, why would they be reluctant to act in one world but take active part in the way another was run?
Because the history of each world is different, and the interaction between the gods may be different in different contexts. They might have a treaty to not get involved on one world, but no such treaty may exist for another world.
I much prefer each world's pantheon existing side by side with the others rather than suffering a constant identity crisis.
It need not be an identiry crisis. The names we use for deities may not be their real name, just what we call them. So different worlds might call them by different names. (In Dragonlance, there are explicitly a different set of names for the gods, depending on race and/or region. Paladine is called Eli, Draco Paladin, Bah'Mut, and so forth.)
While I think it makes sense in general to have the same deities for different worlds, I agree that some of the particular identifications don't make much sense. If you create other worlds (accessible from Oerth by Spelljamming) and use Greyhawk gods with different names, different numbers of worshippers, okay. But trying to force the deities of Oerth, Krynn, and Faerun together doesn't work too well. That's why I'm cool with having these worlds be separated by the Plane of Shadow, but that other worlds still connect to the Great Wheel.
It need not be an identiry crisis. The names we use for deities may not be their real name, just what we call them. So different worlds might call them by different names. (In Dragonlance, there are explicitly a different set of names for the gods, depending on race and/or region. Paladine is called Eli, Draco Paladin, Bah'Mut, and so forth.)
While I think it makes sense in general to have the same deities for different worlds, I agree that some of the particular identifications don't make much sense. If you create other worlds (accessible from Oerth by Spelljamming) and use Greyhawk gods with different names, different numbers of worshippers, okay. But trying to force the deities of Oerth, Krynn, and Faerun together doesn't work too well. That's why I'm cool with having these worlds be separated by the Plane of Shadow, but that other worlds still connect to the Great Wheel.
All of this is true but there are other problems involved. Just for starter, consider the FR's Time of Troubles. The gods are kicked out of their divine realms and assume avatar form. But if those gods are the same (name excepted) than those from (most) other worlds, then why didn't those worlds also experience a loss of divine influence during this (local) crisis?
Second, Paladine (to name only him) may have various names on Krynn but his philosophy remains constant. But, if you equate Paladine with St-Cuthbert and Tyr (as a SJ accessory used to suggest) then why is he worshipped differently in different settings? Wouldn't it be more logical for him to always ask the same thing(s) of his worshippers (holy symbol included), no matter which world they inhabit? (albeit with some minor cultural differences due to local history)
Finally, the different pantheons of the multiple settings of old (read: 1E & 2E) hadn't come into being the same way (not to mention that the sheer number of deities doesn't coincide). For example, compare the gods of BR and those of DL. Two widely different things. So, if (and it's a big 'if') they really are one and the same, they sure went to a lot of troubles to make sure no one could establish a link between their alternate identities!
That said, I am more than ready to admit that 'some' (read: a limited few) deities might be present in several pantheons under different guises. Perhaps it's even a well-kept secret. After all, if their power is really based on the number of worshippers, then why tell others you just found another 'fertile ground' for your own cult?
But all of them? No way.
All of this is true but there are other problems involved. Just for starter, consider the FR's Time of Troubles. The gods are kicked out of their divine realms and assume avatar form. But if those gods are the same (name excepted) than those from (most) other worlds, then why didn't those worlds also experience a loss of divine influence during this (local) crisis?
Second, Paladine (to name only him) may have various names on Krynn but his philosophy remains constant. But, if you equate Paladine with St-Cuthbert and Tyr (as a SJ accessory used to suggest) then why is he worshipped differently in different settings? Wouldn't it be more logical for him to always ask the same thing(s) of his worshippers (holy symbol included), no matter which world they inhabit? (albeit with some minor cultural differences due to local history)
Yes, I agree. Paladine and Takhisis became mortal, while Bahamut and Tiamat did not. Chaos was released from his prison and Tharizdun was not. That's why I said that I think those particular campaign settings should not have the same gods (perhaps I wasn't clear on that). But it's still possible for the same gods to be worshipped on other worlds within the same cosmology. So, perhaps there's a world that has clerics of Pelor, Nerull, Beory, Trithereon, etc. Those clerics may have different names for their gods, but I agree that they would (or should) express the same views as the clerics of the corresponding gods on Oerth.
(I think we actually agree on this.
)That being said, it's never come up in any of my games, so I've never really considered in any detail how much out outer space in my PMT resembles Spelljammer.
Each inhabited planet would probably have its own gods. Why? Well, the PCs would never find out, so technically I don't need to think up a reason either. Gods are inscrutable, so it just is.
There are a LOT of dieties governing Oerth. The pantheons include: Suloise, Baklunish, Flannae, Oeridian, Olman, Touv, Elven, Dwarven, Halfling, Gnomish, Orcish and all the other non-human and monstrous gawds. I mean even kobolds have 2!
So in this world FULL of dieties, how does the average person choose? And why are there not nearly as many religious wars as one would expect? Do the gawds fight over worshippers? If not, why not? And do they allow their followers to pay tribute to other dieties without punishment or penalty?
I'd love to know what the canon is on this...as well as your personal thoughts...
There are some exceptions, of course - Ehlonna and Obad-hai are rivals, for example, so the same person won't worship both of them.
Just a thought...
There are a LOT of dieties governing Oerth. The pantheons include: Suloise, Baklunish, Flannae, Oeridian, Olman, Touv, Elven, Dwarven, Halfling, Gnomish, Orcish and all the other non-human and monstrous gawds. I mean even kobolds have 2!
So in this world FULL of dieties, how does the average person choose? And why are there not nearly as many religious wars as one would expect? Do the gawds fight over worshippers? If not, why not? And do they allow their followers to pay tribute to other dieties without punishment or penalty?
I'd love to know what the canon is on this...as well as your personal thoughts...
Only people like clerics who act as direct agents of a god have to choose. Everybody else can pray to as many or as few gods as they want.
But we're kind of wandering off topic: I was asking whether you use "separate cosmologies" or "separate Prime Planes, identical Inner/Outer Planes."