Ravenloft history question - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Ravenloft history question

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Oct 30, 2005 19:41:09 I am taking a group through a revised 3.5e write-up of I6 and if they like it I was going to do some more in that setting. I could go with Strahd is "the land" and can never be truely destroyed. I just don't intend to pull the lame "oh, you didn't actually win - really you died."

Seeing a revisionism started from the git-go in house on gryphon hill, is there even an attempt to fit I6:Castle Ravenloft in the history that has been developed since then?
#2
gonzoron
Oct 31, 2005 8:04:09 The official status in the timeline is that I6 occurred in the year 528. "Powerful heroes assault castle Ravenloft and are killed" Of course, you don't have to place in that year, and you don't have to have your heroes killed. An alternative is presented in the 2e update of I6, House of Strahd. The Dark Powers won't let their favorite toy be destroyed, but "killing" him puts him into hibernation for some time (months, years, decades, your choice) and lets the people of Barovia sleep a bit easier for little while.
#3
zombiegleemax
Oct 31, 2005 13:52:14 I noticed something simmilar for the "Castles Forlorn" 2e Boxed set in the Gazeteer vol I. Essentially, adventures occur at whatever time is "canon" when they were released (I6 was well before the setting, and I'm not even sure if Ravenloft had Barovia fully yet). Success or failure depends on what is best for the setting (i success = dead darklord, failure. If failure = dead darklord, success).

Of course, you could run it now with little to no issues, just update Strahd and any other minor detail that doesn't it (of course, Strahd's tactics in I6 are outdated rules-wise...they were spooky back when all vampires had 8+3 hit dice, but now that all vampires have class levels, not so much spooky as tacky).

I'm running a campaign starting in 735-6 (the 13th set of Bloody Jack murders), using the portal there to send them to Forlorn, and then having the PCs themselves warp time around them, and running I6 and I8 simultaneously as a finale.
#4
The_Jester
Nov 01, 2005 0:42:58 Have them kills Strahd but hint that he is such apart of the land that he will eventually return, but not for years if not decades. Celebrate the heroes for freeing an entire generation from Strahd. Perhaps have the party brought through the Mist to a different time, they are in the past and they have the chance to 'kill' Strahd.
That's how I'd do it if setting it in a campaign.
If it's a stand alone story I'd just kill him and declare a victory.

When I ran it I had my group role up new (and expendable) characters and had them go through the castle. Only one died and another was almost killed but they managed to catch Strahd between the effects of a the Holy Symbol or Ravenkind and Segri's Sunsword burning him alive and triggering his contingency spell, pretty much freeing Barovia for decades.
#5
scipion_emilien
Nov 01, 2005 22:11:13 And even if the timeline say taht the heroes are killed, it would not be the first time that history would be rewrite, particulary in a backward country like Barovia where the history go as long as people remember it.
#6
zombiegleemax
Nov 03, 2005 23:36:09 *** Spoiler Warning:I6 ***

Well I started the module even though technically I do not have all of it converted. I allowed them to create characters up to level 8 and got the following PCs:

Level 6 Drow Ninja (ECL 8)
Level 6 Drow Ranger (ECL 8)
Level 5 Human Fighter, Level 3 Weapons Master PrC - Focus Greatsword
Level 8 Socerer
Level 8 Barbarian

I would not let them start until I quickly created a Level 8 Dwarven Cleric and assigned one of the PCs to play it. To round out the group is, of course, Ireena Level 4 Human Fighter.

I ignored any random encounters on their original trip into town, I gave them the wolf calls getting closer to help hurry them on their way. After meeting the important NPCs and picking up Ireena they hit the Gypsy camp.

At that point I allowed random encounters and the first one, a ghost (used the barbarian as the base templet to apply the ghost to. I then found out that none of my players had ever fought a ghost before and had no idea what to do. I was looking at a possible TPK encounter at the first fight.

I am still not sure if they have had so many munchkin PCs that they do not know how to play or what. I do get the sense that most their play has been they, as PCs get to do amazing tum-tum like feats. In two sessions (about 8 hours total play) they have entered Ravenloft through the front doors, gone straight to the dining room (after knocking over the suit of armor in the alcove right outside) through the secret door - smashing all the mirrors in the puppet room. They have gone down the corridor and up the stairs destroying all the cobwebs.

Going up the stairs they had a random encounter with a large load of wights and suffering some level drain (including the cleric who was in the lead). With the cleric unable to cast restoration because of lost levels they decided to camp 24 hours in the next hallway till the cleric made its fortitude throw for regaining her level.

Having waited 10 hours, they have encountered 2 Wraiths and 4 Spectres almost resulting in another TPK. Almost all the characters have some level drain to deal with and the ranger is down to level 2, plus since she ran away from the spectres and the party to try to avoid more level drain, I had Strahd pay her a visit and she is down to 8 Con.

I was fudging rolls like a madman with the spectres or else the ranger would have fallen and become a spectre and it would have been TPK.

Any suggestions?
#7
gonzoron
Nov 04, 2005 9:52:14 Well, there is a reason why the official history is that the adventurers died. ;) It's a tough, tough adventure. I've never run it, but I'm led to understand that TPK's are not uncommon with it.

I guess the question is: are your players having fun getting beaten up? If so, let the carnage continue, and when they eventually all die, it'll be a memorable death. If not, have some improbable help show up. Scrolls of restoration, hidden priestly powers of Ireena inherited from Tatyana, the reincarnation of Sergei, something like that.

Or find a way to let them escape from the castle and come back later when better prepared.

One fun way to do it might be to let them all get killed, and roll up higher level characters to avenge themselves with. Another group of outlanders arrives, maybe a generation later, and hears that the last time adventurers tried to storm the castle, none of them came back. They meet up with the next reincarnation of Tatyana, and try again.

(Imagine the fun when they have to face ghost or vampire versions of their old characters and Ireena)
#8
gonzoron
Nov 04, 2005 10:00:57 one more option:
Have them find a copy of Van Richten's guide to Ghosts and/or VRG to Vampires. (I'm Strahd would find both to be amusing reading.) Seems like they need a bit of schooling in monster hunting beyond "bash it with your sword."
#9
zombiegleemax
Nov 07, 2005 23:47:41 well, it was a RANDOM encounter....which i find are never very good...hard to put a lot of thought into facing an oponent that was thrown at you randomly. I'd avoid random encounters, takes from the Ravenloft feel (I6 was just an AD&D adventure, so it still has "standard adventure" elements to it).

I6 loses a lot of it's flavor in 3.5...back in 1e, vampires were all the same...Strahd ALSO had wizard spells....he uses "chessey vampire tactics" so that the REAL horror is him throwing a fireball...but now that all vamps have character levels, the "twist" loses it's flavour...you may want to considering a new "twist" for the fun of it...and keep on with the old one as a decoy.
#10
Mortepierre
Nov 08, 2005 2:26:50 There is a way to keep that particular trick. Simply have the villagers describe the count as a great warrior. The last of his line. After all, that's how their ancestors were saved, eh?

The PC will imagine they'll face a vampire with fighter levels and then you get to surprise them with a spellcaster.

Granted, the surprise won't last long but it's my experience that players often go to great length to prepare for a specific monster when they are reasonably sure of what class they'll face. Changing the class at the last moment usually confuse them like hell.

Note that I would never had allowed any drow PC anywhere near RL to begin with...
#11
zombiegleemax
Nov 09, 2005 8:04:34 The random encounters was a hint to either rest somewhere else move along.

Well I decided they needed more familiarity with their characters (I dont think I mentioned this, they created insta 8s for the adventure) so I asked if they would roll up first level characters and we would take them to Ravenloft the hard way. I decided to start them out with a 3.5e of the Secret of Saltmarsh. It requires some thinking (although I admit when I played it 20 years ago I was an obtuse player).

Just to tell you how this group is, since they knew Ravenloft was going to be in their arc they created two clerics and a paladin (as well as the Socerer and two fighters, this time no rogue). Meta-gamers from hell, but not even smart about it.
#12
sabbattack
Nov 11, 2005 1:03:34 Since they took their time to metagame, i suggest you took your time to have some fun... ;) After all, isn't this what Ravenloft is all about? Tips include:

* If you put them as outsiders, let the Paladin detect evil for one time. Explain to him how he faints and/or gets to all stats=1 (until he rests ) from the evil that surrounds him. Alternatively, he can just go blind for a day or two. Also, since their outsiders, have the cleric get perverted version of the spells he prays for the frist time...Cure=inflict, bless=doom etc. Also, getting a different voice to answer his prayers is a classic (a real creepy one too!!)

* No rogue? ohh, so bad! Let's see them sneak around a town that suspects them! Or see how the villagers react to the wizard's spells (if he's naive enough to cast spells in public!!)

No more ideas for now, gotta crash! I'm dead tired! :D
#13
zombiegleemax
Nov 14, 2005 12:55:44
Note that I would never had allowed any drow PC anywhere near RL to begin with...

I don't have a problem With Drow pc, but how are they going to get along with the surface dwellers long enough to accoplish there goal.
#14
thanael
Nov 14, 2005 13:57:46
Since they took their time to metagame, i suggest you took your time to have some fun... ;) After all, isn't this what Ravenloft is all about? Tips include:

* If you put them as outsiders, let the Paladin detect evil for one time. Explain to him how he faints and/or gets to all stats=1 (until he rests ) from the evil that surrounds him. Alternatively, he can just go blind for a day or two. Also, since their outsiders, have the cleric get perverted version of the spells he prays for the frist time...Cure=inflict, bless=doom etc. Also, getting a different voice to answer his prayers is a classic (a real creepy one too!!)

Erhhh well you do know the modifications that are in the Ravenlopft rules for these spells? For example Det. Evil doesn't work and detects chaos/law instead.
#15
Mortepierre
Nov 14, 2005 17:07:41 Paladins can still detect evil in RL where fiends are concerned. That's the one exception to the rule. Basically, a fiend is so evil that you can always detect it, no matter how much "static noise" you're getting.
#16
sabbattack
Nov 25, 2005 1:21:18
Erhhh well you do know the modifications that are in the Ravenlopft rules for these spells? For example Det. Evil doesn't work and detects chaos/law instead.

Errr, i think you just failed your Sense Motive check... :P

Also, what i did to one of my Paladins (aka abuser of det.evil) was to make him det.evil EVERYWHERE. Everyone was evil to him, even the little children. In the end he prayed to get rid of his det.evil abilities to his deity. These were fun times... :D
#17
rotipher
Nov 25, 2005 17:05:47 Here's an interesting idea: Have the PCs play out I6 as written -- fewer levels for Strahd, weaker monsters than in "House of Strahd", outdated tactics, minimal backstory, and all -- to its conclusion ... only to discover that it was all a *fake* adventure, created by Azalin as a "practice run" for the PCs. The lich wanted to determine if the PCs were up to the task of completing some other mission for him, so he erased their memories of having been hired by him, and sent them to a simulation of Castle Ravenloft he's had constructed somewhere in Darkon (complete with monsters and a Strahd look-alike [actually a Kargat agent]). Azalin's intention is that, should the PCs prove useful pawns in the long term, he might one day send them to tackle the REAL Castle Ravenloft -- a considerably nastier challenge, yet one which their "trial run" will help to prepare them for, by familiarizing them with the castle's layout -- but for now, he's testing their skills with a re-creation of the castle *as it was when Azalin lived there*, when Strahd was far less experienced and Azalin had no choice but to work for him.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Oct 30, 2005 19:41:09	I am taking a group through a revised 3.5e write-up of I6 and if they like it I was going to do some more in that setting. I could go with Strahd is "the land" and can never be truely destroyed. I just don't intend to pull the lame "oh, you didn't actually win - really you died." Seeing a revisionism started from the git-go in house on gryphon hill, is there even an attempt to fit I6:Castle Ravenloft in the history that has been developed since then?
#2 gonzoron Oct 31, 2005 8:04:09	The official status in the timeline is that I6 occurred in the year 528. "Powerful heroes assault castle Ravenloft and are killed" Of course, you don't have to place in that year, and you don't have to have your heroes killed. An alternative is presented in the 2e update of I6, House of Strahd. The Dark Powers won't let their favorite toy be destroyed, but "killing" him puts him into hibernation for some time (months, years, decades, your choice) and lets the people of Barovia sleep a bit easier for little while.
#3 zombiegleemax Oct 31, 2005 13:52:14	I noticed something simmilar for the "Castles Forlorn" 2e Boxed set in the Gazeteer vol I. Essentially, adventures occur at whatever time is "canon" when they were released (I6 was well before the setting, and I'm not even sure if Ravenloft had Barovia fully yet). Success or failure depends on what is best for the setting (i success = dead darklord, failure. If failure = dead darklord, success). Of course, you could run it now with little to no issues, just update Strahd and any other minor detail that doesn't it (of course, Strahd's tactics in I6 are outdated rules-wise...they were spooky back when all vampires had 8+3 hit dice, but now that all vampires have class levels, not so much spooky as tacky). I'm running a campaign starting in 735-6 (the 13th set of Bloody Jack murders), using the portal there to send them to Forlorn, and then having the PCs themselves warp time around them, and running I6 and I8 simultaneously as a finale.
#4 The_Jester Nov 01, 2005 0:42:58	Have them kills Strahd but hint that he is such apart of the land that he will eventually return, but not for years if not decades. Celebrate the heroes for freeing an entire generation from Strahd. Perhaps have the party brought through the Mist to a different time, they are in the past and they have the chance to 'kill' Strahd. That's how I'd do it if setting it in a campaign. If it's a stand alone story I'd just kill him and declare a victory. When I ran it I had my group role up new (and expendable) characters and had them go through the castle. Only one died and another was almost killed but they managed to catch Strahd between the effects of a the Holy Symbol or Ravenkind and Segri's Sunsword burning him alive and triggering his contingency spell, pretty much freeing Barovia for decades.
#5 scipion_emilien Nov 01, 2005 22:11:13	And even if the timeline say taht the heroes are killed, it would not be the first time that history would be rewrite, particulary in a backward country like Barovia where the history go as long as people remember it.
#6 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2005 23:36:09	* Spoiler Warning:I6 * Well I started the module even though technically I do not have all of it converted. I allowed them to create characters up to level 8 and got the following PCs: Level 6 Drow Ninja (ECL 8) Level 6 Drow Ranger (ECL 8) Level 5 Human Fighter, Level 3 Weapons Master PrC - Focus Greatsword Level 8 Socerer Level 8 Barbarian I would not let them start until I quickly created a Level 8 Dwarven Cleric and assigned one of the PCs to play it. To round out the group is, of course, Ireena Level 4 Human Fighter. I ignored any random encounters on their original trip into town, I gave them the wolf calls getting closer to help hurry them on their way. After meeting the important NPCs and picking up Ireena they hit the Gypsy camp. At that point I allowed random encounters and the first one, a ghost (used the barbarian as the base templet to apply the ghost to. I then found out that none of my players had ever fought a ghost before and had no idea what to do. I was looking at a possible TPK encounter at the first fight. I am still not sure if they have had so many munchkin PCs that they do not know how to play or what. I do get the sense that most their play has been they, as PCs get to do amazing tum-tum like feats. In two sessions (about 8 hours total play) they have entered Ravenloft through the front doors, gone straight to the dining room (after knocking over the suit of armor in the alcove right outside) through the secret door - smashing all the mirrors in the puppet room. They have gone down the corridor and up the stairs destroying all the cobwebs. Going up the stairs they had a random encounter with a large load of wights and suffering some level drain (including the cleric who was in the lead). With the cleric unable to cast restoration because of lost levels they decided to camp 24 hours in the next hallway till the cleric made its fortitude throw for regaining her level. Having waited 10 hours, they have encountered 2 Wraiths and 4 Spectres almost resulting in another TPK. Almost all the characters have some level drain to deal with and the ranger is down to level 2, plus since she ran away from the spectres and the party to try to avoid more level drain, I had Strahd pay her a visit and she is down to 8 Con. I was fudging rolls like a madman with the spectres or else the ranger would have fallen and become a spectre and it would have been TPK. Any suggestions?
#7 gonzoron Nov 04, 2005 9:52:14	Well, there is a reason why the official history is that the adventurers died. ;) It's a tough, tough adventure. I've never run it, but I'm led to understand that TPK's are not uncommon with it. I guess the question is: are your players having fun getting beaten up? If so, let the carnage continue, and when they eventually all die, it'll be a memorable death. If not, have some improbable help show up. Scrolls of restoration, hidden priestly powers of Ireena inherited from Tatyana, the reincarnation of Sergei, something like that. Or find a way to let them escape from the castle and come back later when better prepared. One fun way to do it might be to let them all get killed, and roll up higher level characters to avenge themselves with. Another group of outlanders arrives, maybe a generation later, and hears that the last time adventurers tried to storm the castle, none of them came back. They meet up with the next reincarnation of Tatyana, and try again. (Imagine the fun when they have to face ghost or vampire versions of their old characters and Ireena)
#8 gonzoron Nov 04, 2005 10:00:57	one more option: Have them find a copy of Van Richten's guide to Ghosts and/or VRG to Vampires. (I'm Strahd would find both to be amusing reading.) Seems like they need a bit of schooling in monster hunting beyond "bash it with your sword."
#9 zombiegleemax Nov 07, 2005 23:47:41	well, it was a RANDOM encounter....which i find are never very good...hard to put a lot of thought into facing an oponent that was thrown at you randomly. I'd avoid random encounters, takes from the Ravenloft feel (I6 was just an AD&D adventure, so it still has "standard adventure" elements to it). I6 loses a lot of it's flavor in 3.5...back in 1e, vampires were all the same...Strahd ALSO had wizard spells....he uses "chessey vampire tactics" so that the REAL horror is him throwing a fireball...but now that all vamps have character levels, the "twist" loses it's flavour...you may want to considering a new "twist" for the fun of it...and keep on with the old one as a decoy.
#10 Mortepierre Nov 08, 2005 2:26:50	There is a way to keep that particular trick. Simply have the villagers describe the count as a great warrior. The last of his line. After all, that's how their ancestors were saved, eh? The PC will imagine they'll face a vampire with fighter levels and then you get to surprise them with a spellcaster. Granted, the surprise won't last long but it's my experience that players often go to great length to prepare for a specific monster when they are reasonably sure of what class they'll face. Changing the class at the last moment usually confuse them like hell. Note that I would never had allowed any drow PC anywhere near RL to begin with...
#11 zombiegleemax Nov 09, 2005 8:04:34	The random encounters was a hint to either rest somewhere else move along. Well I decided they needed more familiarity with their characters (I dont think I mentioned this, they created insta 8s for the adventure) so I asked if they would roll up first level characters and we would take them to Ravenloft the hard way. I decided to start them out with a 3.5e of the Secret of Saltmarsh. It requires some thinking (although I admit when I played it 20 years ago I was an obtuse player). Just to tell you how this group is, since they knew Ravenloft was going to be in their arc they created two clerics and a paladin (as well as the Socerer and two fighters, this time no rogue). Meta-gamers from hell, but not even smart about it.
#12 sabbattack Nov 11, 2005 1:03:34	Since they took their time to metagame, i suggest you took your time to have some fun... ;) After all, isn't this what Ravenloft is all about? Tips include: * If you put them as outsiders, let the Paladin detect evil for one time. Explain to him how he faints and/or gets to all stats=1 (until he rests ) from the evil that surrounds him. Alternatively, he can just go blind for a day or two. Also, since their outsiders, have the cleric get perverted version of the spells he prays for the frist time...Cure=inflict, bless=doom etc. Also, getting a different voice to answer his prayers is a classic (a real creepy one too!!) * No rogue? ohh, so bad! Let's see them sneak around a town that suspects them! Or see how the villagers react to the wizard's spells (if he's naive enough to cast spells in public!!) No more ideas for now, gotta crash! I'm dead tired! :D
#13 zombiegleemax Nov 14, 2005 12:55:44	Note that I would never had allowed any drow PC anywhere near RL to begin with... I don't have a problem With Drow pc, but how are they going to get along with the surface dwellers long enough to accoplish there goal.
#14 thanael Nov 14, 2005 13:57:46	Since they took their time to metagame, i suggest you took your time to have some fun... ;) After all, isn't this what Ravenloft is all about? Tips include: * If you put them as outsiders, let the Paladin detect evil for one time. Explain to him how he faints and/or gets to all stats=1 (until he rests ) from the evil that surrounds him. Alternatively, he can just go blind for a day or two. Also, since their outsiders, have the cleric get perverted version of the spells he prays for the frist time...Cure=inflict, bless=doom etc. Also, getting a different voice to answer his prayers is a classic (a real creepy one too!!) Erhhh well you do know the modifications that are in the Ravenlopft rules for these spells? For example Det. Evil doesn't work and detects chaos/law instead.
#15 Mortepierre Nov 14, 2005 17:07:41	Paladins can still detect evil in RL where fiends are concerned. That's the one exception to the rule. Basically, a fiend is so evil that you can always detect it, no matter how much "static noise" you're getting.
#16 sabbattack Nov 25, 2005 1:21:18	Erhhh well you do know the modifications that are in the Ravenlopft rules for these spells? For example Det. Evil doesn't work and detects chaos/law instead. Errr, i think you just failed your Sense Motive check... :P Also, what i did to one of my Paladins (aka abuser of det.evil) was to make him det.evil EVERYWHERE. Everyone was evil to him, even the little children. In the end he prayed to get rid of his det.evil abilities to his deity. These were fun times... :D
#17 rotipher Nov 25, 2005 17:05:47	Here's an interesting idea: Have the PCs play out I6 as written -- fewer levels for Strahd, weaker monsters than in "House of Strahd", outdated tactics, minimal backstory, and all -- to its conclusion ... only to discover that it was all a fake adventure, created by Azalin as a "practice run" for the PCs. The lich wanted to determine if the PCs were up to the task of completing some other mission for him, so he erased their memories of having been hired by him, and sent them to a simulation of Castle Ravenloft he's had constructed somewhere in Darkon (complete with monsters and a Strahd look-alike [actually a Kargat agent]). Azalin's intention is that, should the PCs prove useful pawns in the long term, he might one day send them to tackle the REAL Castle Ravenloft -- a considerably nastier challenge, yet one which their "trial run" will help to prepare them for, by familiarizing them with the castle's layout -- but for now, he's testing their skills with a re-creation of the castle as it was when Azalin lived there, when Strahd was far less experienced and Azalin had no choice but to work for him.