Greyhawk Dragon - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Greyhawk Dragon

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
lord_olmac
Nov 06, 2005 2:43:56 I was wondering if anyone has converted the Greyhawk Dragon to 3.X from the last version I could find in D&D 2nd Edition? If so, can you point me in the right direction or even post it here.

Thank you very much!
#2
Mortepierre
Nov 06, 2005 2:55:48 Official 3.0 stats for the GH Dragon were published in the LG Journal issue #1. Since copyright is still active, I doubt the powers that be would look kindly on a repost here...

That particular issue is among the few Paizo isn't selling, so you would probably have better luck searching for it on eBay.
#3
lord_olmac
Nov 06, 2005 9:54:42 Oh, thank you for such a prompt response. I think I might actually have access to that.

#4
cwslyclgh
Nov 06, 2005 13:25:55 the stats for the Steel Dragon also appeared on line on the WotC D&D website IIRC, a Steel Dragon and a Greyhawk Dragon are the same creature.

HERE (i'm pretty sure that this is a 3.5 version where the LGJ was a 3.0 version.)
#5
Mortepierre
Nov 06, 2005 15:22:54 Strictly speaking, they aren't. The Steel Dragon has always been a "copycat" version of the GH dragon. Moreover, the GH Dragon's first breath weapon is a cone of acidic gas, not a line of acid. But, apart from that, I agree that their stats are similar.
#6
lord_olmac
Nov 06, 2005 15:36:32 It seems they have given it a cone of gasous poison and a line of acid. Guess it is cool and yes, very close tot he same otherwise. Thanks.
#7
cwslyclgh
Nov 06, 2005 16:46:33
Strictly speaking, they aren't. The Steel Dragon has always been a "copycat" version of the GH dragon.

I dissagre Morte, they have always been the same, with a different name.

if you look at the steel dragons first appearence and compare it to the version of the greyhawk dragon released not long before it, you will see that the text of the steel dragon is a cut and paste job with the name changed to make it more "generic".
(if you doubt, read the text of the Greyhawk Dragon from the MC:greyhawk appendics, and the text of the Steel Dragon in the Monstrous Manual).

I do not know why skip williams decided to change the breath weapon to a line though, it makes little sense historcally.
#8
Mortepierre
Nov 07, 2005 2:16:12 And that's why I said "strictly speaking". Yes, different names but same abilities. Thus, a "copycat" version. To be frank, I never understood myself why they did it. I remember reading the Steel Dragon entry in the big (2E) MC and wondering why they had changed the name. Perhaps because they wanted a more "generic" version? The Steel Dragon from the FR's (2E) Draconomicon was already (more or less) a copy/paste of the GH Dragon, so this made no sense.
#9
ripvanwormer
Nov 07, 2005 7:58:53 "Greyhawk dragon" isn't really a very good name, even on Oerth - they're found in other cities than Greyhawk, after all. Almost every other type of dragon is named after a substance or a color, so one breed that names itself after a city they almost certainly, as a species and often individually, predate is kind of off-putting. We really needed something to call Greyhawk dragons who happen to live in Dyvers, Rel Astra, or Zeif. I mean, I can see how one dragon who got unmasked in the City of Hawks could come to be known as the Greyhawk Dragon and others of its kind could end up sharing the nickname, but they need a proper name as well.

"The Ecology of the Steel Dragon: Soulbond" in the Dragon Annual #3 was one of the best ecologies ever, by the way.

(The 2e Draconomicon described both steel and mercury dragons, which are very different statistically. It did say "there is almost certainly a close relationship between the steel dragon and the Greyhawk dragon of Oerth")
#10
lincoln_hills
Nov 07, 2005 14:37:32
...It did say "there is almost certainly a close relationship between the steel dragon and the Greyhawk dragon of Oerth."

Yeah, in the same way there is a 'close relationship' between The Sword of Shannara and Lord of the Rings! Does anybody else get tired of the way anything distinctive to Greyhawk is invariably stolen by... writers of certain other settings? What the heck is the deal?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lord_olmac Nov 06, 2005 2:43:56	I was wondering if anyone has converted the Greyhawk Dragon to 3.X from the last version I could find in D&D 2nd Edition? If so, can you point me in the right direction or even post it here. Thank you very much!
#2 Mortepierre Nov 06, 2005 2:55:48	Official 3.0 stats for the GH Dragon were published in the LG Journal issue #1. Since copyright is still active, I doubt the powers that be would look kindly on a repost here... That particular issue is among the few Paizo isn't selling, so you would probably have better luck searching for it on eBay.
#3 lord_olmac Nov 06, 2005 9:54:42	Oh, thank you for such a prompt response. I think I might actually have access to that.
#4 cwslyclgh Nov 06, 2005 13:25:55	the stats for the Steel Dragon also appeared on line on the WotC D&D website IIRC, a Steel Dragon and a Greyhawk Dragon are the same creature. HERE (i'm pretty sure that this is a 3.5 version where the LGJ was a 3.0 version.)
#5 Mortepierre Nov 06, 2005 15:22:54	Strictly speaking, they aren't. The Steel Dragon has always been a "copycat" version of the GH dragon. Moreover, the GH Dragon's first breath weapon is a cone of acidic gas, not a line of acid. But, apart from that, I agree that their stats are similar.
#6 lord_olmac Nov 06, 2005 15:36:32	It seems they have given it a cone of gasous poison and a line of acid. Guess it is cool and yes, very close tot he same otherwise. Thanks.
#7 cwslyclgh Nov 06, 2005 16:46:33	Strictly speaking, they aren't. The Steel Dragon has always been a "copycat" version of the GH dragon. I dissagre Morte, they have always been the same, with a different name. if you look at the steel dragons first appearence and compare it to the version of the greyhawk dragon released not long before it, you will see that the text of the steel dragon is a cut and paste job with the name changed to make it more "generic". (if you doubt, read the text of the Greyhawk Dragon from the MC:greyhawk appendics, and the text of the Steel Dragon in the Monstrous Manual). I do not know why skip williams decided to change the breath weapon to a line though, it makes little sense historcally.
#8 Mortepierre Nov 07, 2005 2:16:12	And that's why I said "strictly speaking". Yes, different names but same abilities. Thus, a "copycat" version. To be frank, I never understood myself why they did it. I remember reading the Steel Dragon entry in the big (2E) MC and wondering why they had changed the name. Perhaps because they wanted a more "generic" version? The Steel Dragon from the FR's (2E) Draconomicon was already (more or less) a copy/paste of the GH Dragon, so this made no sense.
#9 ripvanwormer Nov 07, 2005 7:58:53	"Greyhawk dragon" isn't really a very good name, even on Oerth - they're found in other cities than Greyhawk, after all. Almost every other type of dragon is named after a substance or a color, so one breed that names itself after a city they almost certainly, as a species and often individually, predate is kind of off-putting. We really needed something to call Greyhawk dragons who happen to live in Dyvers, Rel Astra, or Zeif. I mean, I can see how one dragon who got unmasked in the City of Hawks could come to be known as the Greyhawk Dragon and others of its kind could end up sharing the nickname, but they need a proper name as well. "The Ecology of the Steel Dragon: Soulbond" in the Dragon Annual #3 was one of the best ecologies ever, by the way. (The 2e Draconomicon described both steel and mercury dragons, which are very different statistically. It did say "there is almost certainly a close relationship between the steel dragon and the Greyhawk dragon of Oerth")
#10 lincoln_hills Nov 07, 2005 14:37:32	...It did say "there is almost certainly a close relationship between the steel dragon and the Greyhawk dragon of Oerth." Yeah, in the same way there is a 'close relationship' between The Sword of Shannara and Lord of the Rings! Does anybody else get tired of the way anything distinctive to Greyhawk is invariably stolen by... writers of certain other settings? What the heck is the deal?