Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 caeruleus Nov 08, 2005 2:28:46	Let's say a renegade wizard joins an adventuring party. If they ask, he says he's taken the Test (let's say he has ranks in Bluff, if you're concerned about that). How would they know otherwise? Let's say this renegade casts a fireball in front of a Wizard of High Sorcery. Assuming he wasn't threatening the existence of magic (let's say he was casting it in a way that it might be used by some WoHS), how would the WoHS be able to tell this wizard is a renegade? He could try to find out, but can a WoHS do that with every spellcaster he comes across? The fact that the renegade's magic is not affected by the moons, or that they're not wearing red, black, or white robes wouldn't help. Not all those who take and pass the Test necessarily take levels of WoHS, nor are they required to wear a certain color (that was what everyone seemed to think when I asked about that a while ago on these boards). Besides, they can wear one of those colors anyway. I'm sure there are some ways of telling whether someone is a renegade. But it also seems possible that a renegade need not hide. Is there something I'm missing? Or do all of you think this is so obvious that it's not worth mentioning? It's just that I've always been under the impression that renegades always had to hide and keep their magic a secret, but I don't see why.
#2 Mortepierre Nov 08, 2005 6:27:52	I am guessing it has more to do with what I like to think of as the WoHS "spy network". In a world where there aren't many wizards (even at those times the Orders were respected), it's hard to pass yourself as a legitimate one for long. I am not talking about wizards beneath lvl 5. Those aren't worth the trouble, except if they all suddenly band together with some nefarious plot to destroy the Orders. Those of lvl 5 or above, however, are another matter. For starter, they have access to well-known spells (Fireball, among others). Unless they live as hermit, they're bound to use them sooner or later and, invariably, people will talk about it (be they companions, witnesses, or adversaries that survived). When the Orders' "spies" (which, given their access to magic, could be just anything and anyone) hear about it, they investigate and report to the Orders. Those wizards in charge of handling such matters can then delve in the Orders' records to see if they have any trace of the suspected individuals. If they match people who have passed the Test AND aren't guilty of anything contrary to the Orders' goals, then the matter can be dropped. If not, they could investigate a bit further. At worst, Renegade Hunters would be sent to deal with the culprit(s). Of course, this suppose that the Orders are at the very least in "working order" (pardon the pun). In time periods such as the post-War of Souls era, the Orders simply don't have the means to carry out such investigation.
#3 zombiegleemax Nov 08, 2005 10:17:55	Are there lists someplace in Wayreth that are kept of people who have passed their Tests?
#4 vedicdragon Nov 08, 2005 10:23:58	Would it even really matter if you were a Renegade post War of Souls? I mean, Sorcerors abound in that era. Would they not =all= qualify as renegades, with the Order being the other option of Wizardly Magic, but not the -only- option by any means? It all seems rather pointless in the 5th Age to even define "Renegades". I assumed the rule/term was to be used in Pre-5th Age games.
#5 jonesy Nov 08, 2005 11:30:24	I mean, Sorcerors abound in that era. Would they not =all= qualify as renegades, with the Order being the other option of Wizardly Magic, but not the -only- option by any means? Sorcerors perhaps, but he was talking about a renegade wizard. It all seems rather pointless in the 5th Age to even define "Renegades". The WoHS will try to do so anyway.
#6 Mortepierre Nov 08, 2005 11:34:36	Are there lists someplace in Wayreth that are kept of people who have passed their Tests? I think it would be logical to assume that all towers kept records of people who had passed the Test. Methink copies would be made and sent to Wayreth once or twice per year so that the Conclave could have the info at their disposal.
#7 caeruleus Nov 08, 2005 12:58:10	I am guessing it has more to do with what I like to think of as the WoHS "spy network". In a world where there aren't many wizards (even at those times the Orders were respected), it's hard to pass yourself as a legitimate one for long. Interesting idea. If we had details about such a "spy network", then perhaps a renegade could take measures to avoid detection. It would just be something interesting to play out, rather than be automatic. Would it even really matter if you were a Renegade post War of Souls? I mean, Sorcerors abound in that era. Would they not =all= qualify as renegades, with the Order being the other option of Wizardly Magic, but not the -only- option by any means? It all seems rather pointless in the 5th Age to even define "Renegades". I assumed the rule/term was to be used in Pre-5th Age games. Then just consider the 4th age (or previous ages).
#8 vedicdragon Nov 08, 2005 13:21:29	Ah, well then that's a different story. Let's see here . . . . check me if I am wrong, but do not the Orders of High Sorcery in 3.5 as well as 2nd ban specific schools depending on Order? You would be able to see if the mage is a renegade is he cast spells from schools which are mutually exclusive based on Order with a Knowledge (Arcana)/(High Sorcery) or Bardic Knowledge check. I wouldn't make it too difficult, considering . . .something like DC 15 upon observing this. Similarly, and I always punish those who wear Holy symbols of gods they do not worship or oppose with burning them (Especially on Krynn!), do not Wizards of High Sorcery tend to carry Medallions of Faith for Solinari, Lunitari or Numitari, respectively? If so, the renegade would burn to the touch of either of these I would think, and would be conspicuous for not carrying/wearing one prominently. Something to look for, I would think (Though not impossible to play off with Disguise checks or Diplomacy/Bluff rolls for the Renegade). Hope this helps!
#9 clarkvalentine Nov 08, 2005 13:59:13	Are there lists someplace in Wayreth that are kept of people who have passed their Tests? I think it's logical to assume that, yes. I imagine that wizards, much like Gileanites, obsessively write everything down.
#10 clarkvalentine Nov 08, 2005 14:01:31	Let's see here . . . . check me if I am wrong, but do not the Orders of High Sorcery in 3.5 as well as 2nd ban specific schools depending on Order? It's optional, so not a good way to detect a renegade with much reliability. do not Wizards of High Sorcery tend to carry Medallions of Faith for Solinari, Lunitari or Numitari, respectively? Not tyipcally. Pious wizards might carry some sort of trinket, but it's not a medallion of faith like a cleric carries, and not all wizards are pious.
#11 jonesy Nov 08, 2005 14:11:32	do not Wizards of High Sorcery tend to carry Medallions of Faith for Solinari, Lunitari or Numitari, respectively? Not tyipcally. Pious wizards might carry some sort of trinket, but it's not a medallion of faith like a cleric carries, and not all wizards are pious. Heck, WoHS don't even have to wear their order robes if they don't want to. Unless they are carrying out official WoHS business, in which case it's preferred (but not forced).
#12 mizik Nov 08, 2005 23:49:11	I would think only if the become well know would they risk discovery. I think that they would try to convert them as quickly as possable of coures only black mages would use force. Also mages can't realy get away with not joining the order, the order has a monoply on spells, unless they rob a mage's spell book they won't know many spells. On the reason for the test is to prevent wizards from going on a power trip and tarnishing the name of wizards. As long as the renegade does not become realy powerfull or goes on a rampage he will not have to worry about the order hunting him.