NEXT MONTH IN DRAGON #339
DRAGON KINGS
by Chris Flipse and Jon Sederqvist
Defile the land and raise your own empire as one of DARK SUN's godlike dragon kings. The first in DRAGON's new Year of Dragons anniversary series.
Congrats guys- I am glad that your were able to get something in print for DS- I just wished that they would have come to Athas.org when writing up their material for the Dragon and Dungeon mags in the first place.
Now I am sure that you fellow are braced to deal with a hoarde of questions and comments, for your sake I hope it is good
:fight!: :D...others contributed too: Kamelion, Elonarc and Seker in particular.
Oh.... I see how it is...
What, someone feels overlooked? I only counted two messages from you.
True, I wish I could provide more. Free time has become a foreign concept to me
. But, at least I'm getting paid now, so that's a plus.True, I wish I could provide more. Free time has become a foreign concept to me
You mean you get paid to work?
I wish I got paid what I should.
True, I wish I could provide more. Free time has become a foreign concept to me
Yep, getting paied is good.
Having a job that doesn't drive you so bats@#% nuts that you don't want to see a computer for the rest of the week, isn't. Fortunately, it's been getting better.
And, Jon wasn't kidding about the tight deadline. I was contacted by a pazio editor on a Monday, and we were given about 8 days before the deadline. The epic bureau helped us out tremendously. Thanks guys.
True, I wish I could provide more. Free time has become a foreign concept to me
Payment is just another form of slavery- they pay you and now you have bills- so you pay your bills and need more money- which is readily supplied be 'the man' in return for time you will never get back out of your life.
Do you see the vicious circle here- throw off your ties and collared shirts and move somewhere where you can be a free(loader) man- parents are a great source of freedom (they are the cause of your being here- so they should pay for the ride).
All you really need in life is a high-speed connection and the core books man and you will find true happiness :D
Payment is just another form of slavery- they pay you and now you have bills- so you pay your bills and need more money- which is readily supplied be 'the man' in return for time you will never get back out of your life.
Thank you wanna be Chuck Palahnuik. :P
Do you see the vicious circle here- throw off your ties and collared shirts and move somewhere where you can be a free(loader) man- parents are a great source of freedom (they are the cause of your being here- so they should pay for the ride).
All you really need in life is a high-speed connection and the core books man and you will find true happiness :D
Ooops, nevermind. Chuck Palahnuik would come beat you down if he found out you were trying to be him and spewing this at the same time.
/me runs
(No more Chuck Palahnuik jokes today I promise, maybe more tomorrow though!)
And, Jon wasn't kidding about the tight deadline. I was contacted by a pazio editor on a Monday, and we were given about 8 days before the deadline. The epic bureau helped us out tremendously. Thanks guys.
Umm, like holy
!Way to meet a deadline guys congrats!
Let's just hope they don't "tweak" it too much.
Yep, getting paied is good.
Having a job that doesn't drive you so bats@#% nuts that you don't want to see a computer for the rest of the week, isn't. Fortunately, it's been getting better.
Remind me to *never* take a government job, despite how much it pays, heh.
Payment is just another form of slavery- they pay you and now you have bills- so you pay your bills and need more money- which is readily supplied be 'the man' in return for time you will never get back out of your life.
... I don't know if anyone's bothered to tell you, but ...
I am 'the man'
Remind me to *never* take a government job, despite how much it pays, heh.
Eh, it's gotten better. I'm actually manging to exert some influence over the development process now, so there's a chance for sanity.
And if not, well ... I'd say that I can have an offer on the table tomorrow, but I actually have one on the table now.
Eh, it's gotten better. I'm actually manging to exert some influence over the development process now, so there's a chance for sanity.
And if not, well ... I'd say that I can have an offer on the table tomorrow, but I actually have one on the table now.
Good to hear. I know there for awhile you weren't too happy. Then again neither was I, but then I got fired and got a much better job and the stress and blechness of life just washed away.
you should set up a thread for questions in advance, here or elsewhere, so that people can give a heads up as to what they wonder, then you can answer it all at once... and later do the same after the magazine is out and people come up with more questions
Not a bad idea.
Thank you wanna be Chuck Palahnuik. :P
Who??
And no I am not joking- I have no idea who this clown is.
I was just shooting off to get Xlore to return to the chain at his desk! :D
Who??
And no I am not joking- I have no idea who this clown is.
Clown?
Tsk, tsk, tsk Kal, no Fight Club for you! ;)
Clown?
Tsk, tsk, tsk Kal, no Fight Club for you! ;)
OOOOOOH- I know who you are talking about now. Sorry- my brain if fried- too much time in front of the cputer today- work, posting, working on weapon, and updating some of the DS adventures that Jon sent me.
I think it is bed time! Later all!!!
You mean you get paid to work?
I wish I got paid what I should.
Well, actually, my Boss's sentiments about this is.... he wishes I could work more hours, so that they could pay me more. I think they are afraid that I might slip away if I find something I like better that pays more.
But then again, $20.00 an hour for part-time (20 hours a week) work is nothing to laugh at, and I really do like my job.
Yep, getting paied is good.
Having a job that doesn't drive you so bats@#% nuts that you don't want to see a computer for the rest of the week, isn't. Fortunately, it's been getting better.
For me, I don't think that kind of job ever could exist. Even with the Army, and all the crap they had me do, I didn't ever feel at any time that I'd not want to look at a computer. But I'm just a tried and true computer geek...
Payment is just another form of slavery- they pay you and now you have bills- so you pay your bills and need more money- which is readily supplied be 'the man' in return for time you will never get back out of your life.
Do you see the vicious circle here- throw off your ties and collared shirts and move somewhere where you can be a free(loader) man- parents are a great source of freedom (they are the cause of your being here- so they should pay for the ride).
All you really need in life is a high-speed connection and the core books man and you will find true happiness :D
Ahh, but the trick is to not accrue the bills, and then sit back and collect the money. When you get enough, then you do something called "retire" and can set your own schedule.
Didn't anyone explain the rules of the game to you? :P
For me, I don't think that kind of job ever could exist. Even with the Army, and all the crap they had me do, I didn't ever feel at any time that I'd not want to look at a computer. But I'm just a tried and true computer geek...
Well, so am I. Belive me, I'm enough of a computer geek that I read up on programming practices for fun.
But, there was a stretch of time over the summer when they yanked me away from doing what I'm supposed to be doing -- computer geek type stuff -- and made me work on things that by all rights, should be automated. I mean, this was real crap work, and repetitive to boot. I think all data analysts just must be autistic, because doing that for even a day managed to shut down higher brain functions, and put a serious threat on the ones that control breathing ....
Well, so am I. Belive me, I'm enough of a computer geek that I read up on programming practices for fun.
But, there was a stretch of time over the summer when they yanked me away from doing what I'm supposed to be doing -- computer geek type stuff -- and made me work on things that by all rights, should be automated. I mean, this was real crap work, and repetitive to boot. I think all data analysts just must be autistic, because doing that for even a day managed to shut down higher brain functions, and put a serious threat on the ones that control breathing ....
Been there, done that. Refer to earlier statements about the Army. Data entry, while dull, repetative, and completely lackluster usually just begins to spawn fun things for me.... like totally restructuring how it is done to speed the process up and become rapidly more productive... Or just putting the work into a sort of "cruise control" mode, while I work other, non-work-related things out in my head.
But yea, it does suck. Not enough to make me want to avoid computers, but it's not among the top 100 things I'd like to be doing.
Do you see the vicious circle here- throw off your ties and collared shirts and move somewhere where you can be a free(loader) man- parents are a great source of freedom (they are the cause of your being here- so they should pay for the ride).
Who would support your children, and your children's children?
Well, actually, my Boss's sentiments about this is.... he wishes I could work more hours, so that they could pay me more. I think they are afraid that I might slip away if I find something I like better that pays more.
But then again, $20.00 an hour for part-time (20 hours a week) work is nothing to laugh at, and I really do like my job.
I am used to making(and by all rights have the experiance, skills and knowlege to make) 20 plus dollars an hour but i had to take a savere pay cut as the market where i live has been totally distroyed for IT workers by temp agencies and the 2000 Tech bubble burst. I still should be making at least 20 an hour but the temp agencies keep cutting pay lower and making more money for themselves and not many employers are willing to hire anyone strait out because they are afraid of getting people that don't know what they are doing like the usually do... except they usually get people from temp agencies that don't pay anyone a reasonable amount so yea they are going to get people that don't know what they are doing.
This isn't a vicious cycle just a stupid one, why you ask is it a stupid cycle? Because it is run by management why else.
I still should be making at least 20 an hour but the temp agencies keep cutting pay lower and making more money for themselves and not many employers are willing to hire anyone strait out because they are afraid of getting people that don't know what they are doing like the usually do... except they usually get people from temp agencies that don't pay anyone a reasonable amount so yea they are going to get people that don't know what they are doing.
This isn't a vicious cycle just a stupid one, why you ask is it a stupid cycle? Because it is run by management why else.
Oh don't get me going. I could write a whole book on the world of IT and how much it's been tainted, along with another book talking about how worthless and overpayed management is sometimes...
Hence why I just want to hit the reset button and go back to college to learn a new trade.
Congratulations, guys!
Oh don't get me going. I could write a whole book on the world of IT and how much it's been tainted, along with another book talking about how worthless and overpayed management is sometimes...
Hence why I just want to hit the reset button and go back to college to learn a new trade.
See? That's why I don't do the IT field thing if I can avoid it. IT is over-managed. Programming jobs just have fun "crunch times".
See? That's why I don't do the IT field thing if I can avoid it. IT is over-managed. Programming jobs just have fun "crunch times".
If I could be a programmer I would, I just don't have the mindset for it.
Was doing pretty good with Pascal and Turbo Pascal though back in the day, then they made me take a Fortran class at the jr. college I went to in Midland, Tx. and that made me realize I didn't want to be a programmer, heh.
/me shudders
But yeah, IT needs an enema.
Hardly the state of programming right now. FORTRAN was pretty much written for math-types. think of it as an early Matlab.
Nah, these days, we generally don't use any langague that was involved in the structured programming wars. We're a looooong way past Fortran and assembly anymore.
Nah, these days, we generally don't use any langague that was involved in the structured programming wars. We're a looooong way past Fortran and assembly anymore.
Heh, I tried assembly a few times too. Massive headache...
But yeah, it's all C, java, .Net types these days from what I can tell. At least that is what I'm seeing people wanting via the job search sites.
Heh, I tried assembly a few times too. Massive headache...
But yeah, it's all C, java, .Net types these days from what I can tell. At least that is what I'm seeing people wanting via the job search sites.
Hey, Assembly still has a special place in my heart. And it does have it's uses...
Fortran... now THAT brings me way back.... Wow, I only more or less toyed with it back in elementary school.... wasn't all that impressive to me.
And you wanna talk about behind the times.... my current programming course at my college is teaching ADA. Sure, it's a bit more modern than FORTRAN, but not much. I guess it has it's uses, but even the college has finally decided that next semester, they are going to teach C instead of ADA for the intro class.
And for the job market, C++, Java, I guess .NET @#$% like C# (for those who still want to deal with Micro@#$%). For website designs, there's Perl, PHP, JavaScript/ECMAScript, I guess ASP @#$% and VB @#$% (for those who still wanna deal with Micro@#$%).
Perl, Lisp, Ruby, and some shell scripting is good for Unix-based systems.
Python is growing in a few ways, but really is off the beaten path in software development, so I don't see it being totally embraced very soon.
XML is the future in many, many ways, so strong XML skills will definitely be a plus.
And my employers also rely on TCL/Tk for things.
...the college has finally decided that next semester, they are going to teach C instead of ADA for the intro class.
All good things come to an end eventually... This is the way that made "programmer" a sort of curse among hardware developers.
And for the job market, C++, Java, I guess .NET @#$% like C# (for those who still want to deal with Micro@#$%). For website designs, there's Perl, PHP, JavaScript/ECMAScript, I guess ASP @#$% and VB @#$% (for those who still wanna deal with Micro@#$%).
LOL...I worked with Perl for years, then we started working with Java, and man, that's one language I don't like working with. Takes forever to do anything...I dread maintaining our java code & the insane build processes. With Perl, its instant results!
LOL...I worked with Perl for years, then we started working with Java, and man, that's one language I don't like working with. Takes forever to do anything...I dread maintaining our java code & the insane build processes. With Perl, its instant results!
Problem is, PERL* is a write-only language. I'm not saying anything about you, but the general case is that most perl programmers can't even read their own code if they've left it alone for more than three months.
It's possible to write readable perl. The community just frowns on it.
And it's not that it takes forever to do anything in Java ... it's just a matter of right tool for the right job. Using Java for string manipulation is probably a bad idea; using a langauge as *highly* idiomatic as perl in a team situation is probably also a bad idea.
* Pathalogically Ecclectic Rubbish Lister
LOL...I worked with Perl for years, then we started working with Java, and man, that's one language I don't like working with. Takes forever to do anything...I dread maintaining our java code & the insane build processes. With Perl, its instant results!
I dunno what Java you're using, but the Java I'm using (1.5.x) is quick, efficient, and far simpler to write code in than Perl, C++, or other more antiquated languages.
and assembly will always have my heart
But on the article.... I take no responsibility on this one... I gave advice only.....
: backs away quickly from the fallout from this one. :
In my situation, the things I need java to do, it does poorly. It requires having to create several methods to cover things PERL can do with one statement. Basically, to do my job in Java requires creating a whole library of very basic methods to replicate what PERL already does, and it still wouldn't give me the range of options I had previously. I probably haven't had a chance to work on things that Java does better, but in my experience with my job requirements, PERL just works better.
Well, it helps that I've had a few years building my own supply of C, C++, and Java libraries (not to mention some Pascal, GFA Basic, and Logo libraries for my now-dead Atari ST system -- I need to find a place I can get my old ST software in a format that I can run it within my emulators. I loved my ST). I've (due to my recent class) now built a few very limited sets of package libraries for Ada.
Oh, Nyt -- if you knew Pascal/Turbo Pascal, and were ever interested in picking up programming, I'd suggest looking at Ada -- it's derived from Pascal, and the Ada compiler (GNAT) is handled by the Free Software Foundation (the people who are linked to GNU). Be warned, there's also a non-free version of the Ada compiler also called GNAT. You don't want GNAT'95, or GNAT-Pro, it's the FSF GNAT (I think 4.x). Ada was developed by the US government, by making some alterations to PAscal, to produce what they called a "secure" language that government programs could be written in. They ditched it back in like 1990, and then it was picked up by the Open Source community in '94, a new version was made in '95, the original people who developed the GNAT software decided to go commercial and made GNAT Pro, however the FSF decided to make a continuing development on it with open source. Ada's not a loved language by those who enjoy C++ or Java, but it has it's uses, especially for those who are somewhat familiar with Pascal (and don't want to fork out the big $$$ for Borland's Delphi language -- which is the renamed continuation of the Turbo Pascal line).
Mind you, I'm not overly thrilled with Ada myself, but any more, all structured & object-oriented languages to me are the same -- only their syntax is slightly different, if I can pick up the basics of the syntax, I can write in any language (LOGO, LISP, and to some extent the bastard hybrid known as Python not withstanding -- I'm not as familiar with Descriptive programming languages).
heh we are all computer geeks on here it seems :p
and assembly will always have my heart
Amazing how Roleplaying Games attract computer geeks like moths to a flame. And considering this is the forum for a somewhat exotic setting for roleplaying games, it tends to thin the numbers of non-geeks considerably :P
Amazing how Roleplaying Games attract computer geeks like moths to a flame. And considering this is the forum for a somewhat exotic setting for roleplaying games, it tends to thin the numbers of non-geeks considerably :P
Yeah but I have noticed that the people in varied music subcultures also get attracted to the more exotic settings.....
For instance I know a couple goths that really enjoy TORG, a raver/perky goth that likes Darksun and Big Eyes Small Mouth..... Plus numerous others that are just into RPG's. (mostly darker ones like cyberpunk, and others that have a bleak future look) then there is me, the rivethead that I am, and I just preffer the more exotic overall.....
darksun, TORG, Shadowrun, pure cyberpunk, etc....
heh.... I wonder how many people on here are into the music subcultures too..... or if most of the members of the subcultures are just players.
Yeah but I have noticed that the people in varied music subcultures also get attracted to the more exotic settings.....
For instance I know a couple goths that really enjoy TORG, a raver/perky goth that likes Darksun and Big Eyes Small Mouth..... Plus numerous others that are just into RPG's. (mostly darker ones like cyberpunk, and others that have a bleak future look) then there is me, the rivethead that I am, and I just preffer the more exotic overall.....
darksun, TORG, Shadowrun, pure cyberpunk, etc....
Torg... mmmmmm. All other games wish that they were this cool. They honestly do. I am in the middle of reading the Torg Revised & Expanded hardcover at the moment (I literally just put the book down for a couple of minutes to have a quick browse online). Wonderful stuff. Also waiting for a shipment from West End Games with the last few books I need to complete my collection. Oh, and one of those drama decks with the rounded-off corners. Man, I love that game :D...
heh.... I wonder how many people on here are into the music subcultures too..... or if most of the members of the subcultures are just players.
My own music tastes are pretty eclectic (NiN, metal, Depeche Mode, Bjork, Smashing Pumpkins, Tricky, goa trance and the Cure all get pretty equal play). There was a time when my gaming groups were composed entirely of metalheads, punks and indie-pop fans in varying quantities. Not sure about the current group - it hasn't actually come up. Something to raise next session, methinks.
My own music tastes are pretty eclectic (NiN, metal, Depeche Mode, Bjork, Smashing Pumpkins, Tricky, goa trance and the Cure all get pretty equal play). There was a time when my gaming groups were composed entirely of metalheads, punks and indie-pop fans in varying quantities. Not sure about the current group - it hasn't actually come up. Something to raise next session, methinks.
I resemble that remark. Have similar tastes in music, except I also add in KMFDM, Korn, Marylin Manson, Garbage, Rob Zombie, and Rammstein into the mix a bit. I don't really listen to much Depeche Mode or the Cure.
...Rob Zombie, and Rammstein...
Yeah, listening to them lots as well at the moment. I tend to lump all heavy, guitar rock into the "metal" category, which is a bit of a misrepresentation, but hey, who's checking? If it has loud guitars and a thunderous beat, it gets my vote
...Amazing how Roleplaying Games attract computer geeks like moths to a flame. And considering this is the forum for a somewhat exotic setting for roleplaying games, it tends to thin the numbers of non-geeks considerably
Athas.org is no exception - the vast majority work in the IT industry or related industries (telecom, microengineering etc). Not surprisingly, we have one or two templars (rules lawyers) who are accountants!
Torg... mmmmmm. All other games wish that they were this cool. They honestly do. I am in the middle of reading the Torg Revised & Expanded hardcover at the moment (I literally just put the book down for a couple of minutes to have a quick browse online). Wonderful stuff. Also waiting for a shipment from West End Games with the last few books I need to complete my collection. Oh, and one of those drama decks with the rounded-off corners. Man, I love that game :D....
I am still waiting on my copy of the Revised and expanded.... I have run a torg game virtually every weekend (the game running from saturday night till sunday night..... yes, games averaged 16 hours a weekend not including sleep time) for over a year now.... the campaign just went on hiatus starting last weekend. TORG is sweet.
My own music tastes are pretty eclectic (NiN, metal, Depeche Mode, Bjork, Smashing Pumpkins, Tricky, goa trance and the Cure all get pretty equal play). There was a time when my gaming groups were composed entirely of metalheads, punks and indie-pop fans in varying quantities. Not sure about the current group - it hasn't actually come up. Something to raise next session, methinks.
heh.... I am however a rivethead through and through, though I do love goth rock too..... I keep a (very) short list of my music and such over on my myspace page... also a good page for those trying to put a picture to Seker (btw most people outside the RPG community either call me by my name, Doug, or ferret....)
www.myspace.com/ferret1974
I resemble that remark. Have similar tastes in music, except I also add in KMFDM, Korn, Marylin Manson, Garbage, Rob Zombie, and Rammstein into the mix a bit. I don't really listen to much Depeche Mode or the Cure.
Heh.... I like Rammstein (good Tanze Metal), some KMFDM (though it is annoying that they say the name of the band in every song), and some Zombie..... but the Korn and Manson refferences..... man please tell me you don't like Manson's abominations of 80's cover songs. Some of his songs were okay, but he trashed the 80's songs he covered.
Heh.... I like Rammstein (good Tanze Metal), some KMFDM (though it is annoying that they say the name of the band in every song), and some Zombie..... but the Korn and Manson refferences..... man please tell me you don't like Manson's abominations of 80's cover songs. Some of his songs were okay, but he trashed the 80's songs he covered.
KMFDM only says their name in a few of their songs. Rammstein was also notoriouis for saying their name in just about as many songs. Maybe it's a German thing?
And honestly, Manson does a lot of covers (I think I read somewhere that "The Beautiful People" was originally a Mariachi (sp?) song) I like the twisted ways he does things, and only tend to shy away from his more...disturbing lyrics.
With Korn, I gotta like 'em a bit. Why? Because [i]I went to school with them[/u]. I remember three of them sitting off to the side between classes at school, one making wierd noises, another tapping a metal rail with drumsticks, the third sort of "beat-boxing" (I think that's the term). They had a gig at the school once (possibly their first gig ever), had decided to do the first rendition of "Shoots and Ladders", complete with having one of them come out on a stage with the curtains closed, playing bagpipes. Mind you, this was a Junior High audience, and very quickly they were laughed at, when the curtains opened, people were throwing things at them on the stage, forcing them to leave, as the whole audience was busting out laughing at them. When their first album made it big, they took an old yearbook from school, and proceeded to send a copy of the CD, with a little note on a piece of paper slipped into the cover reading "F*** YOU!" to each person in the yearbook. That's how I got my first Korn CD.
KMFDM only says their name in a few of their songs. Rammstein was also notoriouis for saying their name in just about as many songs. Maybe it's a German thing?
And honestly, Manson does a lot of covers (I think I read somewhere that "The Beautiful People" was originally a Mariachi (sp?) song) I like the twisted ways he does things, and only tend to shy away from his more...disturbing lyrics.
With Korn, I gotta like 'em a bit. Why? Because [i]I went to school with them[/u]. I remember three of them sitting off to the side between classes at school, one making wierd noises, another tapping a metal rail with drumsticks, the third sort of "beat-boxing" (I think that's the term). They had a gig at the school once (possibly their first gig ever), had decided to do the first rendition of "Shoots and Ladders", complete with having one of them come out on a stage with the curtains closed, playing bagpipes. Mind you, this was a Junior High audience, and very quickly they were laughed at, when the curtains opened, people were throwing things at them on the stage, forcing them to leave, as the whole audience was busting out laughing at them. When their first album made it big, they took an old yearbook from school, and proceeded to send a copy of the CD, with a little note on a piece of paper slipped into the cover reading "F*** YOU!" to each person in the yearbook. That's how I got my first Korn CD.
On Korn, that is pretty cool.... I have even enjoyed a few of their songs..... just not my style, and all the spooky kids keep trying to say that Korn and Manson are goth and they just are not in the least. (in fact Manson is shock rock not goth rock) So I get a bit edgy on them.
And on Rammstein saying their name in the songs.... they do not do it near as much as KMFDM (I have multiple albums of each, I used to like KMFDM untill I got tired of them saying their name over and over) and with Rammstein there is a reason for the name in many of their songs..... as they took the name after Ramstein air force base in Germany and the air show disaster that happened there (I was actually living not that far from it when it happened and had friends there.) and several of their songs were in homage to the disaster and the people who died there.
On Manson and his covers, to be honest I say he trashes them for this reason.... 80's music was eerie in the lyrics but happy in the tone.... it was this contrast that made songs like "sweet dreams" and the like so great. Manson however takes them and tries to make the music eerie to match the lyrics.... and it comes off hollow and pathetic. Some of his own songs are pretty good but the covers he just ruins.
Personally I think it is on purpose though.... after all his whole act, (and yes it is an act... Bryan is not actually strange.... just really lucky to have gotten Dita) is about upsetting parents so that the kids will buy the albums to "rebell".... and since his act is basically stolen from 80's bands like Ozzy and Alice Cooper, he needed something more to upset the parents.... And what would tick off people of our generation more than trashing music we love. Like "sweet Dream", "personal Jesus", and the like.
On Korn, that is pretty cool.... I have even enjoyed a few of their songs..... just not my style, and all the spooky kids keep trying to say that Korn and Manson are goth and they just are not in the least. (in fact Manson is shock rock not goth rock) So I get a bit edgy on them.
Aye, when people want to tell me what goth is, I then proceed to show them bads that are a lot more goth than either Korn or Manson -- like Type "O", for example. Mind you, I don't get too deep into the Goth scene, so I don't know too many bands that would really be "Goth".
And on Rammstein saying their name in the songs.... they do not do it near as much as KMFDM (I have multiple albums of each, I used to like KMFDM untill I got tired of them saying their name over and over) and with Rammstein there is a reason for the name in many of their songs..... as they took the name after Ramstein air force base in Germany and the air show disaster that happened there (I was actually living not that far from it when it happened and had friends there.) and several of their songs were in homage to the disaster and the people who died there.
This, I knew. I lived in Germany for a few years, and had heard the story time and again., I think I got to Germany shortly after the accident, tho.
On Manson and his covers, to be honest I say he trashes them for this reason.... 80's music was eerie in the lyrics but happy in the tone.... it was this contrast that made songs like "sweet dreams" and the like so great. Manson however takes them and tries to make the music eerie to match the lyrics.... and it comes off hollow and pathetic. Some of his own songs are pretty good but the covers he just ruins.
I dunno, guess it's personal taste, I actually tend to like his covers (well, his cover with Trent Rezner doing "Like a Virgin" is more than a little disturbing, which is why I use it as a means to scare people away when they've become too annoying) Of the covers, I actually like his most recent, "Tainted Love", as I think he actually did better than the original (even if it only was made for a 10-second spot in a movie). I also love the score music he did for Resident Evil.
Personally I think it is on purpose though.... after all his whole act, (and yes it is an act... Bryan is not actually strange.... just really lucky to have gotten Dita) is about upsetting parents so that the kids will buy the albums to "rebell".... and since his act is basically stolen from 80's bands like Ozzy and Alice Cooper, he needed something more to upset the parents.... And what would tick off people of our generation more than trashing music we love. Like "sweet Dream", "personal Jesus", and the like.
Oh yea, it's all an act. He's strictly out for shock value. He'd have never gotten anywhere if it wasn't for Trent Rezner (and I think Nothing Records/Nine Inch Nails would not have gotten far wthout Marilyn Manson), and it's a kick when people don't think it's all an act.
Aye, when people want to tell me what goth is, I then proceed to show them bads that are a lot more goth than either Korn or Manson -- like Type "O", for example. Mind you, I don't get too deep into the Goth scene, so I don't know too many bands that would really be "Goth".
Actually type O negative is more metal than goth rock, though I like them myself, they are what is quaintly called "goth metal", or goth influenced metal. They are a goth friendly band, not a goth rock band. Some good goth bands are: Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, Christian Death (Rozz era only), Cruxshadows, London after Midnight, Tones on Tail, and the like.... I have a good short list on my myspace.
It is mainly spooky kids (goth poseurs, named due to the original name of Manson's band) that try and say Manson and Korn are goth..... I actually spend quite a bit of times trying to educate the spookies.
This, I knew. I lived in Germany for a few years, and had heard the story time and again., I think I got to Germany shortly after the accident, tho.
Yeah I was there for it unfortunately and knew some of the people involved in the incident
I dunno, guess it's personal taste, I actually tend to like his covers (well, his cover with Trent Rezner doing "Like a Virgin" is more than a little disturbing, which is why I use it as a means to scare people away when they've become too annoying) Of the covers, I actually like his most recent, "Tainted Love", as I think he actually did better than the original (even if it only was made for a 10-second spot in a movie). I also love the score music he did for Resident Evil.
Agreed it is a matter of opinion.... I really despise his version of tainted love, and loved the original..... never heard the like a virgin one..... the most disturbing one I saw of that song was in moulen rouge.... I did like alot of music on resident evil.... just do not like the covers.
Oh yea, it's all an act. He's strictly out for shock value. He'd have never gotten anywhere if it wasn't for Trent Rezner (and I think Nothing Records/Nine Inch Nails would not have gotten far wthout Marilyn Manson), and it's a kick when people don't think it's all an act.
Which is why most of us do not forgive trent.... he discovered manson :P
Although to be honest I feel NiN music became worse after he discovered Manson. I normally only like Trents old industrial music (basically that means just the pretty hate machine album) as he went into more rock after that.
Although to be honest I feel NiN music became worse after he discovered Manson. I normally only like Trents old industrial music (basically that means just the pretty hate machine album) as he went into more rock after that.
The CD he made after Nothing Records collapsed and he signed with Sony, which is his most recent CD called "With Teeth" is much closer to what "Pretty Hate Machine" was than any of his others were.
The CD he made after Nothing Records collapsed and he signed with Sony, which is his most recent CD called "With Teeth" is much closer to what "Pretty Hate Machine" was than any of his others were.
I would agree.... though his current CD is still more rock than industrial..... I am at heart a rivethead though.... an avid fan of industrial music..... and it just is not the same on NIN.....
I am still waiting on my copy of the Revised and expanded.... I have run a torg game virtually every weekend (the game running from saturday night till sunday night..... yes, games averaged 16 hours a weekend not including sleep time) for over a year now.... the campaign just went on hiatus starting last weekend. TORG is sweet.
You are so lucky! I haven't run a solid Torg campaign since, well, the game's heyday back in the very early 90s. There have been a few one-offs since then, but most groups were slavishly addicted to their D&D fix that getting them to try the "real d20 game" was always a real hassle. Still, my current group have expressed some interest (or, at least, some bemusement at my startling levels of obsession with a game that has been out of print for over 10 years) so hopefully I'll be able to get something up and running in the new year. If truth be told, I'd much rather play Torg than pretty much anything else... sigh...
I am now rather jealous of you... ;)
You are so lucky! I haven't run a solid Torg campaign since, well, the game's heyday back in the very early 90s. There have been a few one-offs since then, but most groups were slavishly addicted to their D&D fix that getting them to try the "real d20 game" was always a real hassle. Still, my current group have expressed some interest (or, at least, some bemusement at my startling levels of obsession with a game that has been out of print for over 10 years) so hopefully I'll be able to get something up and running in the new year. If truth be told, I'd much rather play Torg than pretty much anything else... sigh...
I am now rather jealous of you... ;)
hey my group ended recently so dont be jealous..... I have no torg game now
Torg? Never heard of it! [ducks behind cover to increase miss chance of items thrown my way]
don't worry we do not attack those who have not seen the wonder that is Torg.... we pity them.
TORG is the game of the infiniverse..... a battle for the very reality of the world that is invaded by other worlds (cosms) and how you survive in the changes of not only allies, but of keeping your very reality and surpassing it.
Made by West End Games a long time ago...... The Storm has ended.... for the now and the here at least
don't worry we do not attack those who have not seen the wonder that is Torg.... we pity them.
TORG is the game of the infiniverse..... a battle for the very reality of the world that is invaded by other worlds (cosms) and how you survive in the changes of not only allies, but of keeping your very reality and surpassing it.
Made by West End Games a long time ago...... The Storm has ended.... for the now and the here at least
Interesting- I may have to look into it. My group has been playing with the idea of setting up another game that would be on the same schedule as my DS one so I could get a break from DMing and get some play time in. We were thinking of looking at Iron Heros (<= I think that is what it is called), but so far nothing has come up- other then EQ and I have a slight dislike for that setting.
Interesting- I may have to look into it. My group has been playing with the idea of setting up another game that would be on the same schedule as my DS one so I could get a break from DMing and get some play time in. We were thinking of looking at Iron Heros (<= I think that is what it is called), but so far nothing has come up- other then EQ and I have a slight dislike for that setting.
Torg differs from many other multi-genre games in that is assumes that the various genres will mix on a frequent basis. The game is built around and wholly embraces the idea that your elven dragonrider will be adventuring alongside a gothic horror werewolf, laser-toting cyberpriest, contract ninja, and crazed pulp scientist. The system melds them together beautifully.
There is a Torg 2nd Edition supposedly planned for GenCon 2006, but you can get the 1st edition books for 50% off the listed catalog price from West End Games, as well as a really lovely revised & expanded hardcover rulebook to go with them. Check out their Torg catalog. Well worth a look.
I liked the article. I think you guys did a great job :D ! Of course it doesn't fit perfectly, but I don't think that's really possible in the framework of a single PrC without a seperate transformational process. Without the two feats included it would be a bit limited as an epic caster/manifester, but including them helps tremendously.
Incidentally, which two feats were included? When I was editing the article, there were three... ;)
Arcane Augmentation and Metamixture. What was the other one that you wanted included?
Metapotency was the third. I dunno if it was in the final, submitted version, but it was still there when I was doing my bit. Just curious, that's all. My copy of the magazine will be along in a short while, I guess...