Pre-review feedback for the Guide - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Pre-review feedback for the Guide

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Pennarin
Nov 08, 2005 12:40:24 Hi everyone!

Me and Meth are soon to release the current version of the Equipment Guide to a reviewer/playtester. In the mean time, we still need to get feedback on a few details.

1. We invented Fighting Tattoos, psionic items similar to psionic tattoos, but they contain powers higher than 3rd-level (in fact up to 9th). They are used to create a single Astral Construct, and after their use evaporate.
My question is, should these tattoos, when containing a power of higher than 3rd-level, take more space on the body? (i.e. take more tattoo space.)
A bit like this: A Fighting Tattoo of 1-3 level takes one normal tattoo space; 4-6 takes a 3 tattoo space; and 7-9 takes a 5 tattoo space.

2. There's the same question for an item that allows its user to transform a magic scroll into a form that can be applied to skin, forming a scar. The person with the scar can later on touch it to tap its power, just like if he were using the scroll. Since scrolls can contain spells as high as 9th-level, should they also take more body space? Should the magic of this item create more elaborate scar tissue that takes more and more space on the body?

Maybe more questions later.
#2
Kamelion
Nov 08, 2005 13:31:01 My feeling on this is no, they shouldn't take up more space. The power of the items should be balanced by their cost, not their size. Just as you can have a ring of protection +1 or a ring of protection +5 both taking up the same amount of space, you can have tattoos of differing power taking up the same amount of space.
#3
kalthandrix
Nov 08, 2005 14:02:01 I disagree with Kam on this issue a little. IMO the physical body of a person can only hold so much latent power and I think that regardless of the size of the tatoo/scroll scar there should be a limit on the amount of stuff that can be stored. I think that the body should have a number limit of the number of levels of spells/powers that can be stored on it- it could be something like the character level or something else, but I think there should be a limit. To use Kams own example, a ring of protection +1 and a ring of protection +5 takes up the same amount of space, but everyone is limited to two rings. And so there should be a limit on the amount of power that can be stored on someone's body via scars or tatoos.
#4
Kamelion
Nov 08, 2005 14:24:55 To clarify - you should limit the number of magic item slots on a person's body, but I don't think that you should limit the power of an item that any given slot can contain. The Expanded Psionic Handbook limits the total number of psionic tattoos any one person can have to 20. Attempting to add more than this maximum causes all previously scribed tattoos to simultaneously active (which would actually be pretty funny to see...)

Psionic tattoos are basically psionic potions so with Fighting Tattoos, you are doing the psionic equivalent of allowing for the creation of potions of higher than 3rd level. This should be balanced in some way other than through the use of more tattoo slots, imho. I would be tempted to say that psionic tattoos of above 3rd-level are something of a no-no, unless there is precedence for that kind of thing (such as potions above 3rd level in a WotC book, for example) - but that just imho and bears further thought. You might wish to make them a kind of psionic skin instead, for example, or other kind of universal item. At the very least, I would require something like Fighting Tattoos to be dependent on a feat other than just Scribe Tattoo, if for no other reason than the low cost of scribing tattoos.
#5
zombiegleemax
Nov 08, 2005 20:29:01 Maybe you should make the tattoos above 3rd level require special exotic ingredients and require the alchemy skill to properly mix them together before they can even accept the magic or pisonic energy. This adds a monetary cost, a skill point cost, and gives possible adventuring hooks. To make sure that you can not just go to the shadow square and pick up already mixed ink you should make the items very rare or dangerous to get beyond that it is up to the DM to give it to them or make them go get it.

A few more ideas I also think that the monetary cost and skill cost are a bit easy. I would also make a second feat that requires the scribe tattoo feat because I mean we are talking about powers or spells up to 9th level that’s pretty powerful to have in a tattoo

So pay two feats, lots of money for exotic ingredients, and skill points.
Say DC to make the ink is 4 * level of the power?
That would be a DC 12 for a 3rd level and a DC 36 for a 9th.
If you set it to 5 * level of power.
That would make the DC 15 for a 3rd level and a DC 45 for a 9th

I do not think the tattoos should be limited by size but there should be a cost.
#6
Pennarin
Nov 08, 2005 23:29:35
To clarify - you should limit the number of magic item slots on a person's body, but I don't think that you should limit the power of an item that any given slot can contain. The Expanded Psionic Handbook limits the total number of psionic tattoos any one person can have to 20. Attempting to add more than this maximum causes all previously scribed tattoos to simultaneously active (which would actually be pretty funny to see...)

Its already so: Fighting Tattoos are said to take body space like a psionic tattoo, XPH page reference included.

Psionic tattoos are basically psionic potions so with Fighting Tattoos, you are doing the psionic equivalent of allowing for the creation of potions of higher than 3rd level. This should be balanced in some way other than through the use of more tattoo slots, imho. I would be tempted to say that psionic tattoos of above 3rd-level are something of a no-no, unless there is precedence for that kind of thing (such as potions above 3rd level in a WotC book, for example) - but that just imho and bears further thought. You might wish to make them a kind of psionic skin instead, for example, or other kind of universal item. At the very least, I would require something like Fighting Tattoos to be dependent on a feat other than just Scribe Tattoo, if for no other reason than the low cost of scribing tattoos.

Mmm, Fighting Tattoos only look like psionic tattoos, but actually use the Craft Universal Item feat, since the psionic tattoo rules do not allow for powers of higher than 3rd-level to be inscibed.
As of a few weeks back, Bengeldorn came up with a PrC, the Tattooist, which is partially a version of FR's Master Alchemist PrC (the one that gives the ability to create potions of higher and higher level the more you take level in it). His PrC is listed in the Archive.
Fighting Tattoos are unrelated to the Tattooist and are grounded in official XPH material. They are basically...charms that you can drop down on the ground and who will scurry towards the enemy and turn into a big bad creature and try and kill it, and failing that or reaching the duration, evaporates. I made them look and behave like psionic tattoos because...well, its cool, and it balances in the fact it takes psionic tattoo space.

Btw, the magic item that turns scrolls into scars also counts towards those maximum 20 tattoos a person can have on his body.

Ok thanks everyone, I will go with the option of keeping the "tattoos" count as one tattoo each, no matter their power, since there are already other controls like how many you can have on your person, and the fact that fighting tattoos, crawling tattoos, psionic tattoos, and those magic scars all share the same skin space.
#7
master_ivan
Nov 09, 2005 6:38:54 I don't think that it should take more space just because it's a 9th lvl spell, it should depend on the spell itself, if the spell is big the tattoo should be big and if it's small, then it should be small. You know what I mean? A superior invisibility tattoo should be tiny, and a lightning bolt tattoo should be big. So it should depend on range of effect and the damage it deals.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Pennarin Nov 08, 2005 12:40:24	Hi everyone! Me and Meth are soon to release the current version of the Equipment Guide to a reviewer/playtester. In the mean time, we still need to get feedback on a few details. 1. We invented Fighting Tattoos, psionic items similar to psionic tattoos, but they contain powers higher than 3rd-level (in fact up to 9th). They are used to create a single Astral Construct, and after their use evaporate. My question is, should these tattoos, when containing a power of higher than 3rd-level, take more space on the body? (i.e. take more tattoo space.) A bit like this: A Fighting Tattoo of 1-3 level takes one normal tattoo space; 4-6 takes a 3 tattoo space; and 7-9 takes a 5 tattoo space. 2. There's the same question for an item that allows its user to transform a magic scroll into a form that can be applied to skin, forming a scar. The person with the scar can later on touch it to tap its power, just like if he were using the scroll. Since scrolls can contain spells as high as 9th-level, should they also take more body space? Should the magic of this item create more elaborate scar tissue that takes more and more space on the body? Maybe more questions later.
#2 Kamelion Nov 08, 2005 13:31:01	My feeling on this is no, they shouldn't take up more space. The power of the items should be balanced by their cost, not their size. Just as you can have a ring of protection +1 or a ring of protection +5 both taking up the same amount of space, you can have tattoos of differing power taking up the same amount of space.
#3 kalthandrix Nov 08, 2005 14:02:01	I disagree with Kam on this issue a little. IMO the physical body of a person can only hold so much latent power and I think that regardless of the size of the tatoo/scroll scar there should be a limit on the amount of stuff that can be stored. I think that the body should have a number limit of the number of levels of spells/powers that can be stored on it- it could be something like the character level or something else, but I think there should be a limit. To use Kams own example, a ring of protection +1 and a ring of protection +5 takes up the same amount of space, but everyone is limited to two rings. And so there should be a limit on the amount of power that can be stored on someone's body via scars or tatoos.
#4 Kamelion Nov 08, 2005 14:24:55	To clarify - you should limit the number of magic item slots on a person's body, but I don't think that you should limit the power of an item that any given slot can contain. The Expanded Psionic Handbook limits the total number of psionic tattoos any one person can have to 20. Attempting to add more than this maximum causes all previously scribed tattoos to simultaneously active (which would actually be pretty funny to see...) Psionic tattoos are basically psionic potions so with Fighting Tattoos, you are doing the psionic equivalent of allowing for the creation of potions of higher than 3rd level. This should be balanced in some way other than through the use of more tattoo slots, imho. I would be tempted to say that psionic tattoos of above 3rd-level are something of a no-no, unless there is precedence for that kind of thing (such as potions above 3rd level in a WotC book, for example) - but that just imho and bears further thought. You might wish to make them a kind of psionic skin instead, for example, or other kind of universal item. At the very least, I would require something like Fighting Tattoos to be dependent on a feat other than just Scribe Tattoo, if for no other reason than the low cost of scribing tattoos.
#5 zombiegleemax Nov 08, 2005 20:29:01	Maybe you should make the tattoos above 3rd level require special exotic ingredients and require the alchemy skill to properly mix them together before they can even accept the magic or pisonic energy. This adds a monetary cost, a skill point cost, and gives possible adventuring hooks. To make sure that you can not just go to the shadow square and pick up already mixed ink you should make the items very rare or dangerous to get beyond that it is up to the DM to give it to them or make them go get it. A few more ideas I also think that the monetary cost and skill cost are a bit easy. I would also make a second feat that requires the scribe tattoo feat because I mean we are talking about powers or spells up to 9th level that’s pretty powerful to have in a tattoo So pay two feats, lots of money for exotic ingredients, and skill points. Say DC to make the ink is 4 * level of the power? That would be a DC 12 for a 3rd level and a DC 36 for a 9th. If you set it to 5 * level of power. That would make the DC 15 for a 3rd level and a DC 45 for a 9th I do not think the tattoos should be limited by size but there should be a cost.
#6 Pennarin Nov 08, 2005 23:29:35	To clarify - you should limit the number of magic item slots on a person's body, but I don't think that you should limit the power of an item that any given slot can contain. The Expanded Psionic Handbook limits the total number of psionic tattoos any one person can have to 20. Attempting to add more than this maximum causes all previously scribed tattoos to simultaneously active (which would actually be pretty funny to see...) Its already so: Fighting Tattoos are said to take body space like a psionic tattoo, XPH page reference included. Psionic tattoos are basically psionic potions so with Fighting Tattoos, you are doing the psionic equivalent of allowing for the creation of potions of higher than 3rd level. This should be balanced in some way other than through the use of more tattoo slots, imho. I would be tempted to say that psionic tattoos of above 3rd-level are something of a no-no, unless there is precedence for that kind of thing (such as potions above 3rd level in a WotC book, for example) - but that just imho and bears further thought. You might wish to make them a kind of psionic skin instead, for example, or other kind of universal item. At the very least, I would require something like Fighting Tattoos to be dependent on a feat other than just Scribe Tattoo, if for no other reason than the low cost of scribing tattoos. Mmm, Fighting Tattoos only look like psionic tattoos, but actually use the Craft Universal Item feat, since the psionic tattoo rules do not allow for powers of higher than 3rd-level to be inscibed. As of a few weeks back, Bengeldorn came up with a PrC, the Tattooist, which is partially a version of FR's Master Alchemist PrC (the one that gives the ability to create potions of higher and higher level the more you take level in it). His PrC is listed in the Archive. Fighting Tattoos are unrelated to the Tattooist and are grounded in official XPH material. They are basically...charms that you can drop down on the ground and who will scurry towards the enemy and turn into a big bad creature and try and kill it, and failing that or reaching the duration, evaporates. I made them look and behave like psionic tattoos because...well, its cool, and it balances in the fact it takes psionic tattoo space. Btw, the magic item that turns scrolls into scars also counts towards those maximum 20 tattoos a person can have on his body. Ok thanks everyone, I will go with the option of keeping the "tattoos" count as one tattoo each, no matter their power, since there are already other controls like how many you can have on your person, and the fact that fighting tattoos, crawling tattoos, psionic tattoos, and those magic scars all share the same skin space.
#7 master_ivan Nov 09, 2005 6:38:54	I don't think that it should take more space just because it's a 9th lvl spell, it should depend on the spell itself, if the spell is big the tattoo should be big and if it's small, then it should be small. You know what I mean? A superior invisibility tattoo should be tiny, and a lightning bolt tattoo should be big. So it should depend on range of effect and the damage it deals.