Elves versys Shadow Elves... Allies for the Elves? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Elves versys Shadow Elves... Allies for the Elves?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Nov 09, 2005 8:51:51 Suppose, just for a moment, that you're running a post Shadow Elf Invasion game, so you're some time after AC1010 in Mystara. Suppsoe you're a good thirty years on from there.

Suppose also that the surviving Alfheim elves have been festering their hatred of the shadow elves for all of that time, and that Elves from Wendar, Karameikos and even further afield want rid of the Shadow Elves; they want to reclaim Alfheim as their ancestral land; their holy land, you might say.

Who would they be willing to do a deal with to achieve this?

Obvious candidates may be Darokin (who may ultimately find that the shadow elves have been a threat), but that hasn't panned out in my campaign. The Dwarves up in Rockhome may be ideal, but they've just been soundly thrashed by Shadow Elves when fighting over the city of Oekenmar.

Would King Doriath consider an alliance with the master in Hule? Could he sell out Darokin to the Master in return for the Masters help in defeating the Shadow Elves?

I'm thinking on this as a way to bring the Desert Nomads modules into play in my camopaign. Intuitively, this seems right. But does this work for the elves?
#2
gazza555
Nov 09, 2005 9:03:07 On thing to note is that, of course, Alfheim is surronded by Darokin. So any ally of the elves who need Darokins permission to march their troops through, otherwise the Shadowelves may find that they have Darokin as an unexpected ally in repulsing the invaders.

[edit]What if the other members of the Western Defense League support Darokin against the incursions into Darokin?

Then again IMC I'm hoping for a peaceful diplomatic solution with the joining together of the surface elves and the Shadowelves. In fact, a member of the party (Shadowelf) is already having dreams about the corruption of the Canolbarth. In the long run, restoring the Canolbarth will be part of his path to immortality (jointly sponsored by Mealiden and Rafiel).

Regards,
Gary
#3
zombiegleemax
Nov 09, 2005 11:43:03 I guess I need to add some more information here.

In my campaign, Hule seized Sind a few years ago.

Doriath, ruler of Alfheim, still leads his people, but now he is based in the lowland woods of Atruaghin.

An alliance between Wendar, Hule and Doriaths elves would be dangerous for Darokin. Suppose the Master struck right at Darokin City, moving his forces (with the help of Doriath) through the woods to the border, that's within 100 miles of the capital.

The elves supply logistical support for Hule, which in turn acts as a smokescreen for them, as they themselves march in the wake of the Masters army, straight past Darokin and towards Canolbarth.

Meanwhile, a second force of Elves, from Wendar, aided by one of the Glantrian Elven factions (haven't decided which yet, but probably the more typically 'treehugging' one) march across Glantri and into the broken lands. They know that the Shadow Elves are very much aware of what happens in the broken lands, they'll hear about this army coming and they will act to fortify their Northern border. That leaves their Southern flank weakened, giving Doriath his chance to strike in the chaos caused by the Master invading Darokin. Doriath may also call upon the support of other factions; particularly Vyalia elves may support his invasion, as may Rockhome.

So we have a scenario here in which because of their lack of support for the elves, and because of their efforts to appease the shadow elves (not something the dwarves supported!) the demi-humans of the Known World region sell out Darokin to the Master, and invade Canolbarth.

The scale of this war is potentially massive; you could imagine the Shires, Glantri, and Karameikos being dragged in, and there's no way Thyatis could sit back and watch their Western flank become dominated by Hule. You could imagine this conflict splitting Minrothaddan elves right down the middle, and you could even see the Shire Lawr elves of Aplhatia (which was rescued from sinking in my campaign) agitating to actively support one side or the other.
#4
spellweaver
Nov 10, 2005 4:52:56 I find it very unlikely that Doriath would ever ally with the Master. Of course, in your campaign you can have it any way you want, but originally Doriath is a wise and lawful king and he should know better than to ally with the devil.

What is he going to do, when he takes Alfheim back, the forest is blighted and devoid of food to feed his people, and they are surrounded by the Master who conquered Darokin? Not a very wise position.

I could see the Shadow Elves using manipulation, Second Shadow agents and threats to gain human allies, but Doriath also has a lot of support abroad, as you mention, not least in Karameikos, Glantri and the elven parts of Thyatis even.

:-) Jesper
#5
agathokles
Nov 10, 2005 6:28:38
The Dwarves up in Rockhome may be ideal, but they've just been soundly thrashed by Shadow Elves when fighting over the city of Oekenmar.

The Dwarves are still the most likely candidate -- the dwarves being stubborn enough to come back for a vengeance.

Darokin has too long a border with the SE, so it can't risk a war with them, especially when the Master is so close.

Hule is too far, and Rafiel does not oppose openly the entropic immortals, so the Huleans aren't likely to be interested in an alliance with the Alfheimers -- except maybe to corrupt them.

The Orcs would be another choice, because the Orclands border with the SE territories both above and below ground. But they have the same problems as the Dwarves, and they're traditional enemies of the surface elves as well.

Glantri, Thyatis and the HK have the military/magical ability to help, but they've got their own expansionistic plans to carry on.
Moreover, Glantri's army is mostly defensive, and the Erewan have been losing power steadily.

Thyatis is held in check by Alphatia, until WotI. After that, if they are able to rebuild and to absorb former Alphatian holdings, than they could be interested in taking a direct interest in the KW events. The only problem is that they would have to move armies through Karameikos and Darokin, which would be all but impossible.

The HK have the same problems as Thyatis in reaching Alfheim, and in addition to that they have less interest in controlling the KW region.

Ylaruam would certainly see the SE as demons or demon-worshippers, but they'd have problems dealing with the surface elves as well.

All in all, it doesn't look the elves are going to find any help...
#6
zombiegleemax
Nov 10, 2005 7:28:19
I find it very unlikely that Doriath would ever ally with the Master. Of course, in your campaign you can have it any way you want, but originally Doriath is a wise and lawful king and he should know better than to ally with the devil.

You see, that's the snag. The Master is not in any way a natural ally for Doriath. But suppose Doriath has spent 35 years trying to drum up support amongst civilised nations to help him re-take his land, his holy land, and got nowhere?

What is he going to do, when he takes Alfheim back, the forest is blighted and devoid of food to feed his people, and they are surrounded by the Master who conquered Darokin? Not a very wise position.

I could see the Shadow Elves using manipulation, Second Shadow agents and threats to gain human allies, but Doriath also has a lot of support abroad, as you mention, not least in Karameikos, Glantri and the elven parts of Thyatis even.

:-) Jesper

You think those nations might take up arms against the shadow elves?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Nov 09, 2005 8:51:51	Suppose, just for a moment, that you're running a post Shadow Elf Invasion game, so you're some time after AC1010 in Mystara. Suppsoe you're a good thirty years on from there. Suppose also that the surviving Alfheim elves have been festering their hatred of the shadow elves for all of that time, and that Elves from Wendar, Karameikos and even further afield want rid of the Shadow Elves; they want to reclaim Alfheim as their ancestral land; their holy land, you might say. Who would they be willing to do a deal with to achieve this? Obvious candidates may be Darokin (who may ultimately find that the shadow elves have been a threat), but that hasn't panned out in my campaign. The Dwarves up in Rockhome may be ideal, but they've just been soundly thrashed by Shadow Elves when fighting over the city of Oekenmar. Would King Doriath consider an alliance with the master in Hule? Could he sell out Darokin to the Master in return for the Masters help in defeating the Shadow Elves? I'm thinking on this as a way to bring the Desert Nomads modules into play in my camopaign. Intuitively, this seems right. But does this work for the elves?
#2 gazza555 Nov 09, 2005 9:03:07	On thing to note is that, of course, Alfheim is surronded by Darokin. So any ally of the elves who need Darokins permission to march their troops through, otherwise the Shadowelves may find that they have Darokin as an unexpected ally in repulsing the invaders. [edit]What if the other members of the Western Defense League support Darokin against the incursions into Darokin? Then again IMC I'm hoping for a peaceful diplomatic solution with the joining together of the surface elves and the Shadowelves. In fact, a member of the party (Shadowelf) is already having dreams about the corruption of the Canolbarth. In the long run, restoring the Canolbarth will be part of his path to immortality (jointly sponsored by Mealiden and Rafiel). Regards, Gary
#3 zombiegleemax Nov 09, 2005 11:43:03	I guess I need to add some more information here. In my campaign, Hule seized Sind a few years ago. Doriath, ruler of Alfheim, still leads his people, but now he is based in the lowland woods of Atruaghin. An alliance between Wendar, Hule and Doriaths elves would be dangerous for Darokin. Suppose the Master struck right at Darokin City, moving his forces (with the help of Doriath) through the woods to the border, that's within 100 miles of the capital. The elves supply logistical support for Hule, which in turn acts as a smokescreen for them, as they themselves march in the wake of the Masters army, straight past Darokin and towards Canolbarth. Meanwhile, a second force of Elves, from Wendar, aided by one of the Glantrian Elven factions (haven't decided which yet, but probably the more typically 'treehugging' one) march across Glantri and into the broken lands. They know that the Shadow Elves are very much aware of what happens in the broken lands, they'll hear about this army coming and they will act to fortify their Northern border. That leaves their Southern flank weakened, giving Doriath his chance to strike in the chaos caused by the Master invading Darokin. Doriath may also call upon the support of other factions; particularly Vyalia elves may support his invasion, as may Rockhome. So we have a scenario here in which because of their lack of support for the elves, and because of their efforts to appease the shadow elves (not something the dwarves supported!) the demi-humans of the Known World region sell out Darokin to the Master, and invade Canolbarth. The scale of this war is potentially massive; you could imagine the Shires, Glantri, and Karameikos being dragged in, and there's no way Thyatis could sit back and watch their Western flank become dominated by Hule. You could imagine this conflict splitting Minrothaddan elves right down the middle, and you could even see the Shire Lawr elves of Aplhatia (which was rescued from sinking in my campaign) agitating to actively support one side or the other.
#4 spellweaver Nov 10, 2005 4:52:56	I find it very unlikely that Doriath would ever ally with the Master. Of course, in your campaign you can have it any way you want, but originally Doriath is a wise and lawful king and he should know better than to ally with the devil. What is he going to do, when he takes Alfheim back, the forest is blighted and devoid of food to feed his people, and they are surrounded by the Master who conquered Darokin? Not a very wise position. I could see the Shadow Elves using manipulation, Second Shadow agents and threats to gain human allies, but Doriath also has a lot of support abroad, as you mention, not least in Karameikos, Glantri and the elven parts of Thyatis even. :-) Jesper
#5 agathokles Nov 10, 2005 6:28:38	The Dwarves up in Rockhome may be ideal, but they've just been soundly thrashed by Shadow Elves when fighting over the city of Oekenmar. The Dwarves are still the most likely candidate -- the dwarves being stubborn enough to come back for a vengeance. Darokin has too long a border with the SE, so it can't risk a war with them, especially when the Master is so close. Hule is too far, and Rafiel does not oppose openly the entropic immortals, so the Huleans aren't likely to be interested in an alliance with the Alfheimers -- except maybe to corrupt them. The Orcs would be another choice, because the Orclands border with the SE territories both above and below ground. But they have the same problems as the Dwarves, and they're traditional enemies of the surface elves as well. Glantri, Thyatis and the HK have the military/magical ability to help, but they've got their own expansionistic plans to carry on. Moreover, Glantri's army is mostly defensive, and the Erewan have been losing power steadily. Thyatis is held in check by Alphatia, until WotI. After that, if they are able to rebuild and to absorb former Alphatian holdings, than they could be interested in taking a direct interest in the KW events. The only problem is that they would have to move armies through Karameikos and Darokin, which would be all but impossible. The HK have the same problems as Thyatis in reaching Alfheim, and in addition to that they have less interest in controlling the KW region. Ylaruam would certainly see the SE as demons or demon-worshippers, but they'd have problems dealing with the surface elves as well. All in all, it doesn't look the elves are going to find any help...
#6 zombiegleemax Nov 10, 2005 7:28:19	I find it very unlikely that Doriath would ever ally with the Master. Of course, in your campaign you can have it any way you want, but originally Doriath is a wise and lawful king and he should know better than to ally with the devil. You see, that's the snag. The Master is not in any way a natural ally for Doriath. But suppose Doriath has spent 35 years trying to drum up support amongst civilised nations to help him re-take his land, his holy land, and got nowhere? What is he going to do, when he takes Alfheim back, the forest is blighted and devoid of food to feed his people, and they are surrounded by the Master who conquered Darokin? Not a very wise position. I could see the Shadow Elves using manipulation, Second Shadow agents and threats to gain human allies, but Doriath also has a lot of support abroad, as you mention, not least in Karameikos, Glantri and the elven parts of Thyatis even. :-) Jesper You think those nations might take up arms against the shadow elves?