He is a earth cleric and psionic (shaper). I was trying to revise the one from DK into 3.5. I think eventually transforming into a full elemental is nice but not powerful enough to stand up against a Dragon. Does anyone have any ideas that would balance the transformation "scale" alittle more?
Also the Dragon Prc gains duplex. What do you think the elementalist prc class would gain? Especially if he can already gate in material, egnore element and the other things that the clerics in 2nd edition could do.
Or better yet, if you have your own version would you be so kind as to share it with me? :D
I could also foresee them with the ability to gate in their elemental material...
Technically summoning of a cleric's raw element should have been a non-epic ability. I'm surprised that it was never turned into a domain power.
Technically summoning of a cleric's raw element should have been a non-epic ability. I'm surprised that it was never turned into a domain power.
I know that there were those of us who wanted it to be a granted or domain power- but it never came to be
. I was just hypothesizing when I said that it would be an AB ability- I really have no clue but I would like to see it make a come back in any form.
I know that there were those of us who wanted it to be a granted or domain power- but it never came to be
I was just hypothesizing when I said that it would be an AB ability- I really have no clue but I would like to see it make a come back in any form.
Pretty sure it's part of the actual class in Xlorep's version of the cleric (which I plan on using as well).
Are you basing the transformation on a greater elemental or a epic primal elemental? I'd suggest maybe using the primal type.
I dont remember coming across anything about epic primal elementals.
Originaly I was basing the transformation on a greater elemental. Could you please direct me to info pertaining to the primal elemental?Kalthandrix- My version of the cleric can already gate in material at an early level. I like the idea of controling elemental creatures, though! That is a new granted power that i can add to the list for the epic prc class
Any one else???
I dont remember coming across anything about epic primal elementals.
The primal elemental is an epic level creature that appears in the Epic Level Handbook. If you don't have that book, you can find its stats in
this document from the SRD.
The primal elemental is an epic level creature that appears in the Epic Level Handbook. If you don't have that book, you can find its stats in
this document from the SRD.
I have the book. The primal elementalist is indeed a better choice. Thank's guys.
kind of an energy/material substitution feat in a way it would be a vortex of air for air elementals, fire for fire, etc..a kinetic could use blasts of concentrated air rather than force... but that's not much difference.. perhaps a sonic descriptor rather than force...
clairsentients wouldn't have much to show off.. but a psychometabolist could have his powers (some) affect his body in interesting ways.. powers that grant AC could turn his body into or coat his body with hardened rock or crystal.. stuff like that..
these are mostly fluff / flair ideas.. but it would be nice if they could be incorporated.... (water on the brain sir? yes, but what did you expect from a water cleric...)
you know, it wouldn't necessarily work with all discliplines, but at least as a shaper, it would be great if his metacreativity powers were instead of ectoplasm/astral goup.. if they were made of earthen materials.. sort of making temporary elementals and such
a kinetic could use blasts of concentrated air rather than force... but that's not much difference.. perhaps a sonic descriptor rather than force...
clairsentients wouldn't have much to show off.. but a psychometabolist could have his powers (some) affect his body in interesting ways.. powers that grant AC could turn his body into or coat his body with hardened rock or crystal.. stuff like that..
these are mostly fluff / flair ideas.. but it would be nice if they could be incorporated.... (water on the brain sir? yes, but what did you expect from a water cleric...)
Interesting idea. It would really mean combining both elemental and psionic powers, something that I always felt psienchantments should have been.
we could have some of the tech types who love pouring over powers in the lists take a look at powers they think could be molded to one element or another.. or tweaked..
we could even make it part of an epic spell to be able to use the powers that way.. just so people could take it or leave it. You could use the leadership feat charts and make the cleric's leadership score about ten levels below his/her caster level. The followers would be elementals and/or outsiders of appropriate types with corrisponding HD or ECLs. This would provide a little "army" or host of creatures that are at the beck and call of the epic elemental clerics.
I'm not sure if you should use this as an epic feat or a epic class ability, but it might add something to the class.
One other ability that I think would be cool would be to give the epic clerics, that transcend into elemental beings, an elemental blast ability that would be usable x times/day or once every 1d4 rounds (like a dragon). Make the damage 1d8/2 levels if a saving throw is allowed or 1d8/4 levels if there is no save but you have to make a ranged touch attack.
though, there should be something similar for each element..Would you just modify the element and tweak a few things and just run off the PrC for the pyrokinetic? would you use that other version that is instantly adaptable to any of the five categories? (sonic, fire, acid, cold, electricity) I forget the name of the prc... or would you craft something from scratch?
I've been waiting around for the advanced being elemental rules, so I could make a pyrokinetic/fire cleric.. I think that would be quite fitting
Would you just modify the element and tweak a few things and just run off the PrC for the pyrokinetic? would you use that other version that is instantly adaptable to any of the five categories? (sonic, fire, acid, cold, electricity) I forget the name of the prc... or would you craft something from scratch?
I think that a PrC based off of each element would be called for- just due to the fact that it would make them cooler then having carbon copies of the same PrC running around.
Like the heat lash or whatever that the pyro has- it would not really fit or be as cool calling it a wind lash. I think they should get something like a projectile attack of sonic energy and the earth based one get a version of a slam attack that.
The only problem that I see is that Athas deals with more then the basic elements- you also have the paraelements- so I think a PrC could be build that was the same at the core, but with slightlyd different abilities for each element- kind of like how I ended up doing the Arcane Specialist PrC.
Hummmm- I may have to look into this idea and do a write up of it. I already have several cool ideas that I think would work pretty well for this. Hey Lyric, if you would like I will do something with this idea and send it to you and we can work on it from there if you have time- I think the earliest I may be able to get to is would be this weekend though.
) I'm there send away for a project like that, I'll make time! :DI've wanted a variation like this for some time, (somewhere on this board I have a preliminary for one of the elements.. I don't recall which one though
Cool- I will tryto do some stuff on this during the weekend, but it will have to see what comes up. This should be fun!
Another idea might be to incorporate the Elemental Archon class from FR Faiths & Pantheons. It is a regular ten-level prestige class that turns the cleric into an elemental.
One other ability that I think would be cool would be to give the epic clerics, that transcend into elemental beings, an elemental blast ability that would be usable x times/day or once every 1d4 rounds (like a dragon). Make the damage 1d8/2 levels if a saving throw is allowed or 1d8/4 levels if there is no save but you have to make a ranged touch attack.
Elemental blast ability! Elemental followers! great stuff. :D Is there a link to the Elemental Archon Prc (in FR F+P) that details the advancement???
The earth elemental would gain all the elemental immunities and special abilities that all elementals have. It would increase in height by 4 increments (m to c), gain a DR 35/+8, stand around 65' tall, weigh around 100,000 lbs, 4d10 slam attack, push attack, +48 AC, +30 con (16 from size, 14 from the "spell"), +54 str (32 from size, 22 from the "spell"), -4 dex from size.
I am thinking about adding an elemental blast (d10 per 2 HD), constrict, trample.
Versus a dragon who gains +29 str, -4 dex, 17 con, +33 AC, 3 size increments, wings 2d6, burrow, breath d12 per 2 HD, claws 2d8, bite 4d6, tail 2d8, DR 15/epic metal, SR/PR = HD +11, freightened aura.
questions of balance:
1. I think the elemental is more powered physically over the dragon and should be because the dragon could drain the earth elementals HD (life energy) away within 2/3 minutes from its store energy ability. Do you?
2. The epic spells DC is 31 (seed:transformation DC21, +10 for change type to elemental. What about 5 stages instead of 10?
3. Would there be any other factors to the epic spell seed that i haved missed?
So using the dragon PrC advancement as a guide for advanced elemental beings they would gain an elemental secert (Primordial Lore?) at every even numbered level. The character could select one ability from one of several elmental secert lists based on their patron element.
Just my two bits.
One other question regarding the enhancement.. does that merely make them match an equivalent elemental? or do their abilities (innate abilities, spells asside) give them an edge, as they should, in comparison to other elementals of their patron? They should be exemplary characters of the element..
Example: I'm reminded of something my brother pointed out from LotR.. Gandalf, when he fought the Bal Roc.. (sp??) said he was a servant of the sacred fire, and then, after he came back to life, he was a master of the sacred fire...
I think of it similarly for the elemental AB's, they were the servants before.. now, as AB's, they are the Lord's
(but no granting spellcasting, of course). And they should at least slightly outdo a pure elemental of the respective plane.. (after all, they have psionics )Oh, and in regards to the balance between dragon and earth elemental described above.. don't forget, the dragon can fly.. and burrow.. while I wouldn't recomend burrowing through an elemental of earth :P as he's likely to constrict you ;) the earth elemental would be at disadvantage against an airborn creature, also, I didn't see any SR/PR on the side of the elemental, that's a big factor as well.. so trying to use spells to ground a dragon, are very limited.. while the dragon, can use a spell to do nothing more than enhance his defiling radius/potency.. and severely cripple the earth elemental..
Question.. I've always wondered how a fire and water AB sustains itself on Athas, do they take damage away from a suitable environment? or are they self sustaining? does the water elemental suffer from the heat and lack of moisture in the desert? or is it too so pure and in tune with its element, that its immune to all but supernatural/magical alterations to its environment.. (e.g. heat, dehydration/evaporation, etc).
Oh, and I prefer the ten stage requirement, but, I think it should be modeled after the old style, where you progress from lesser to greater elemental form
add in nifty bonuses for lower levels.. in 2e, lesser elementals were (somehow) immune to psionics! :D find something that would balance out and give flair to being a lesser elemental...And I would recomend that like before, if possible, its an instantaneous, yet, temporary transformation, lasting longer and longer each day, until the change is permanent
(unless its already decided they aren't doing it that way..)these are my thoughts
keep up the good work!Is there a link to the Elemental Archon Prc (in FR F+P) that details the advancement???
Unfortunately no. The class has ten levels. It gives increasing elemental immunity (to the patron element only), mephit servants who grow more powerful, increased divine caster level, and focused abilities in tune with the patron element. At tenth level the character becomes a medium elemental of the patron type.
Dealing with the epic transformation, perhaps the elementals could gain immunity to mind-affecting effects at some point. Reasoning being that the caster becomes less and less human (or whatever) and more of a pure elemental fount. Going along this line, the advanced elementalists do not need to remain in their element (they would probably prefer to do so) because they are almost a living, moving elemental conduit. As they become more powerful they prefer more and more to live on the specific elemental plane (which explains why the existing ones [elemental lords or what not] do not often physically come to Athas; perhaps there can only be a finite number of these beings).
Everything looks good so far though. Keep up the good work.
I think that sounds great, both of you... did you add in some requirement of having psionics of a certain calibur?
When the character advances in the elemental prc class he will have psionics (psi enchantment stuff like the dragons and avangions). I was just currently working on the transformation templet for the elemental AB. Because a wizard could change into a dragon without qualifying for the dragon prc class.
One other question regarding the enhancement.. does that merely make them match an equivalent elemental? or do their abilities (innate abilities, spells asside) give them an edge, as they should, in comparison to other elementals of their patron? They should be exemplary characters of the element..
Yes. They are way better. This is based off of a primal elemental, way stronger and bigger then a normal elemental. The primal elemental creature is the AB elemental. There are no primal elementals floating around unless another a cleric has tranformed into one. All other elementals are just elementals.
I think of it similarly for the elemental AB's, they were the servants before.. now, as AB's, they are the Lord's
Absolutly. They have moved up in rank. Why wouldnt they be able to grant elemental spells?
Oh, and in regards to the balance between dragon and earth elemental described above.. don't forget, the dragon can fly.. and burrow.. while I wouldn't recomend burrowing through an elemental of earth :P as he's likely to constrict you ;) the earth elemental would be at disadvantage against an airborn creature, also, I didn't see any SR/PR on the side of the elemental, that's a big factor as well.. so trying to use spells to ground a dragon, are very limited.. while the dragon, can use a spell to do nothing more than enhance his defiling radius/potency.. and severely cripple the earth elemental..
Earth elementals can burrow to. PF/MR... oops. :P . Thanks, I missed that.
Question.. I've always wondered how a fire and water AB sustains itself on Athas, do they take damage away from a suitable environment? or are they self sustaining? does the water elemental suffer from the heat and lack of moisture in the desert? or is it too so pure and in tune with its element, that its immune to all but supernatural/magical alterations to its environment.. (e.g. heat, dehydration/evaporation, etc).
I believe elemental AB, elementals, elementalist (clerics) sustain themselves, being tied in with the elemental plane and the positve or negative (undead) plane. So only supernatural/magical alterations would effect it based on the environment.
Oh, and I prefer the ten stage requirement, but, I think it should be modeled after the old style, where you progress from lesser to greater elemental form
Absolutly. The stats that I made earlier are over a 10 stage progression (similiar to a dragons). So you could consider it to be a progression of lesser-normal-greater-primal. I am considering the immunity to psionics but may leave it for undead elementals (since most undead seem to have special defences for psionics). I run elements with quasi elements. For example a live (positive plane) AB earth elemental would be rich w/ minerals. A undead earth elemental (negative plane) would be just made of dust. Another example: a live AB sun elemental would be radiance and its negative side would be ash.
And I would recomend that like before, if possible, its an instantaneous, yet, temporary transformation, lasting longer and longer each day, until the change is permanent
I thought growing threw the transformation stages was enough. I wanted the character to lose his complicated human multi elements and quasi elements (positve,eart,air,fire,water) composition as soon as possible. I believe that to become an AB elemental you must give up the elements that compose you and only keep your chosen element and of course the positive or negative that sustains life or unlife.
these are my thoughts
thanks, keep the thoughts comeing :D
Dealing with the epic transformation, perhaps the elementals could gain immunity to mind-affecting effects at some point. Reasoning being that the caster becomes less and less human (or whatever) and more of a pure elemental fount.
Hmmm... I like that logic. Are basic elementals immune to psionics???
Going along this line, the advanced elementalists do not need to remain in their element (they would probably prefer to do so) because they are almost a living, moving elemental conduit. As they become more powerful they prefer more and more to live on the specific elemental plane (which explains why the existing ones [elemental lords or what not] do not often physically come to Athas; perhaps there can only be a finite number of these beings).
I cant see them leaving and chillin in their elemental planes (although I like the idea). According the the old 2nd ed. EAFW book Athas's elements sustains (feeds) the inner planes. I think an earth AB would be roaming athas battling silt and magma, trying to bring down their substance so more earth substance could exist. Is this the same for 3.5? or has this changed???
I like the idea of a finite number of these beings. Something like the old normal druid heiarchy.
Thanks... :D
I have a suggestion in regards to this PrC. Rather than coming up with several different PrCs for each element and para-element you could keep it as one PrC but at predetermined levels they would learn an "elemental secret" based on the character's patron element.
So using the dragon PrC advancement as a guide for advanced elemental beings they would gain an elemental secert (Primordial Lore?) at every even numbered level. The character could select one ability from one of several elmental secert lists based on their patron element.
Just my two bits.
Your 2 bits add up :D . (I like the idea of Primordial Lore) When I create the Elemental AB prc class I will use that on odd levels (instead of duplex) and psienchaments on even levels. :D
Thanks.