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Scarlet Brotherhood

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
lord_zeb_02
Nov 10, 2005 20:10:51 Hey folks, I bought the Scarlet Brotherhood PDF over @ Paizo's site and have been thinking about using them. I don't run GH currently, but as a GM always on the lookout for good ideas, or potentially running in the 'hawk universe.

Any other sources that would be useful to track down? Novels?

Anybody ever play as monks of the Scarlet Brotherhood?

Thanks!
Zeb
#2
Mortepierre
Nov 11, 2005 2:09:54 The novel Artifact of Evil (By E.G. Gygax) has a good description of a castle defended by the Brotherhood. Other than that, none that I can think of.

As for other sources of info, Jason Zavoda's GH Index lists them as:
Scarlet Brotherhood (20,000+/-)[KNG][ORG]
(Scarlet Sign, Brethren, Red Abomination, Scarlet Tyranny)
A1-4 - 122
A3 - 20
A4 - 22
AOE - 27,50-52,58,68,83,88,96,103-105,188,193,230,231
ATG - 66,68
CED - 11,38,240
COG:C# - 5,11
COG:FFF - 3,82
COH - 359
DOD - 11,42,47
DRG#52 - 22
DRG#55 - 18
DRG#57 - 13
DRG#88 - 8,9,11
DRG#89 - 21
DRG#164 - 19
DRG#189 - 13
DRG#191 - 64,65,67,68
DRG#200 - 70
DRG#206 - 35,38,40,41
DRG#230 - 12
DRG#233 - 92
DRG#241 - 44,80,95
DRG#243 - 91
DRG#256 - 47,48,50,51
DRG#263 - 51
DRG#270 - 60
DRG#281 - 38,39,41,42,44
DRG#292 - 100,101
DRG#293 - 5,92,93
DRG#299 - 98,99
DRG#301 - 89
DRG#302 - 7,99
DRG#AN3 - 19,20
DUN#41 - 50
DUN#42 - 34
DUN#72 - 12
FTAA - 2,3,5-7,9,10,12,13,16,19,20,27,28,30-32,
,35-37,39,43,46-49,52,55,58-60,74,77,79,92,93
FTAC - 1,3,6-10,12,19,22,60,65-69,77,79
FTAR#1
FTAR#2
FTAR#10
FTAR#12
GA - 3,40,44-46
GW:ADV - 1,5,6,15,17,22-24,26-29,32
GW:RB - 8
IVID
LGG - 6,8,12,15,16,18,21,24,25,45,51,52,54,55,58,59,63,66,
,68-70,72,73,75,78-80,87,88,91-93,95,97-102
,106,110-112,119,130,133,134,146-150
,153,160,163,181,184,187,190,IBC
LGJ#0 - 8,11,12
LGJ#1 - 13,19,30
LGJ#2 - 19,26,30
LGJ#3 - 14,23,28-30
LGJ#4 - 10,16,20,29,30
LGJ#5 - 7,30
LOG - Dis,1,6,8,11-13,15,17,20,21,24-29,31,32,34,36-48,50-69
,73-85,88-90,93,94,96-99,101-109,111,112
NA Pg # - 398
ONW1-01 - 2-15
ONW1-02 - 4,5,11
ONW1-03 - 4-8,12,14-17
ONW1-04 - 4,5
ONW1-05 - 3-7
ONW1-06 - 4,5,8,10
ONW1-07 - 4-10
ONW1-08 - 5,6,12,13
PGTG - 4,5,7,10-12,22,24,25,36,37,45,46,49
RTO8 - 2,59,60
SAG1 - 61
SLV - 3,18,34,35,37,53,87,89,92,93,99,103,104,107
,116,119,121-123
SOD - 21,23-25,27,28,59,68,81,88-90,255,386,389
T1-4 - 99
TAB - 3,12,16,18,19,24-38,62,64,79,80,86,96,119,123
TOH - 5
TSB
WG8 - 8,13,21,40,46,50,53,57,88-90,92,104,105,107-114,116-119,125
WGG - IBC,2,5,7,15
WGM1 - 10
WGR1 - 82
WGR3 - 4,6,7
WGR4 - 9,10,36,63,64,73,74,89
WGR5 - 6
WGS1 - 3
WGS2 - 5
WOGA - 9,13,33,IBC
WOGG - 11,17

Oh, and some people will tell you the SB accessory was bad because it didn't live up to their expectations but when you have only limited material at your disposal, it's still a lot better than nothing.

I doubt you'll find many people having played a SB monk in an actual game. See, unlike the FR where people think it's cool to play the bad guys (Zhentarim spy, Thayan wizard, etc..), this is GH. The SB is one of the most evil organizations around. Sure, they may appear friendly and helpful and they'll always be eager to lend you a hand. The problem comes with the price tag...

Basically, since the end of the GH Wars, no one trust them and since they have a near-monopoly on monkhood (is there such a word?) people tend to get suspicious rather quickly if you start doing some funky move with your body to win any fight. It doesn't help the rare (other) (Bakluni mainly) monks out there but then life was never fair.

I guess one could play an undercover SB agent but to what purpose? If the other members of your team discover who you are, you're finished. And if they dont, betraying them continuously would get old after a while. Unless your DM is in for an "all-evil" campaign of course, in which case I imagine a whole team of SB adventurers could be created. Might even be fun, if you found the right type of players to pull it off
#3
lord_zeb_02
Nov 11, 2005 12:11:11 Thanks!

I have the Dragon CD compilation, so I'll have to do some digging into that since I don't own very much GH material. I've been a homebrew, OA and FR GM for D&D over the years, and a player in most of the settings (mostly in homebrew).

Interesting about the PC as villains, which I have seen quite a bit, and played a couple of times myself. I could definitely see how a mixed party with a SB monk would be hard to pull off / keep up believability, but an all SB group could be fun to GM for.

From my reading of the SB PDF, their ideology might hit a bit too close to Earth racism for my group to really get into it, but I am curious if someone else has pulled it off before.

OTOH, the Earth-like racism makes them appealing as clear cut bad guys for a group of Good/Neutral PCs.

Thanks again.
#4
crag
Nov 11, 2005 13:07:46 Well I personally don't generally enjoy an all "evil" game for the PCs, unless they are very good roleplayers since in my experience the game quickly degenerates into back-biting and homocidal bloodlust with the excuse "but I'm evil".

There is a difference between evil and stupid, which if played right the SB is a perfect example to illustrate this point.

As shown in the SB supplement, SB does send out adventuring parties to acquire magic, wealth and experience and with their over-arching philosophy, as repugnant as it is, it should eliminate the greed, betrayal and mindless violence that hampers most "evil" parties simply because all the PCs have the same core goal and will be held accountable by the organisation if their actions endangered the groups success - SB isn't known for it's merciful understanding of failure.
#5
lord_zeb_02
Nov 11, 2005 13:17:16 I have a great group of guys, and we've never spiraled down into the backstabbing type of games.

"Evil people can still have friends" is our philosophy. Especially in a tough as nails D&D world, allies are a good thing.

The fact that the SB are a smart group is what is appealing, and I'm slowly coming off my Bard kick and beginning to have a Monk one, hence the interest in monkly bad guys.
#6
ajs
Nov 15, 2005 22:14:52 I've been having fun with the idea of evil in Greyhawk recently. I have a character that tends to go around detecting evil everywhere he can and attacking whenever he gets a positive.

As an offset for that, I've constructed a scenario where the fate of some very helpless people depends on a group of evil folks who have been defending them in return for supplies, medical support, etc. They ARE evil (most of them, anyway), but they're also needed. It will be interesting to see what the good paladin does when faced with this situation. If he's not carefull, he might end up having a town to protect ;)

On the other hand, I was also thinking on introducing the Brotherhood as an antagonist. I have a player that has some ties to them, and was going to play that up as a problem for the party... should be interesting.

What's the best reference for the Brotherhood, if I specifically want to know what they've been up to since the Wars?
#7
zombiegleemax
Nov 16, 2005 1:10:25 The SB I have found is a great addition to a "secret" evil that can heighten a sense of paranoia. You never know who can be SB, a rescued princess, the local blacksmith, whomever. You can have the SB an everpresent opponent but rarely have to ever meet one.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lord_zeb_02 Nov 10, 2005 20:10:51	Hey folks, I bought the Scarlet Brotherhood PDF over @ Paizo's site and have been thinking about using them. I don't run GH currently, but as a GM always on the lookout for good ideas, or potentially running in the 'hawk universe. Any other sources that would be useful to track down? Novels? Anybody ever play as monks of the Scarlet Brotherhood? Thanks! Zeb
#2 Mortepierre Nov 11, 2005 2:09:54	The novel Artifact of Evil (By E.G. Gygax) has a good description of a castle defended by the Brotherhood. Other than that, none that I can think of. As for other sources of info, Jason Zavoda's GH Index lists them as: Scarlet Brotherhood (20,000+/-)[KNG][ORG] (Scarlet Sign, Brethren, Red Abomination, Scarlet Tyranny) A1-4 - 122 A3 - 20 A4 - 22 AOE - 27,50-52,58,68,83,88,96,103-105,188,193,230,231 ATG - 66,68 CED - 11,38,240 COG:C# - 5,11 COG:FFF - 3,82 COH - 359 DOD - 11,42,47 DRG#52 - 22 DRG#55 - 18 DRG#57 - 13 DRG#88 - 8,9,11 DRG#89 - 21 DRG#164 - 19 DRG#189 - 13 DRG#191 - 64,65,67,68 DRG#200 - 70 DRG#206 - 35,38,40,41 DRG#230 - 12 DRG#233 - 92 DRG#241 - 44,80,95 DRG#243 - 91 DRG#256 - 47,48,50,51 DRG#263 - 51 DRG#270 - 60 DRG#281 - 38,39,41,42,44 DRG#292 - 100,101 DRG#293 - 5,92,93 DRG#299 - 98,99 DRG#301 - 89 DRG#302 - 7,99 DRG#AN3 - 19,20 DUN#41 - 50 DUN#42 - 34 DUN#72 - 12 FTAA - 2,3,5-7,9,10,12,13,16,19,20,27,28,30-32, ,35-37,39,43,46-49,52,55,58-60,74,77,79,92,93 FTAC - 1,3,6-10,12,19,22,60,65-69,77,79 FTAR#1 FTAR#2 FTAR#10 FTAR#12 GA - 3,40,44-46 GW:ADV - 1,5,6,15,17,22-24,26-29,32 GW:RB - 8 IVID LGG - 6,8,12,15,16,18,21,24,25,45,51,52,54,55,58,59,63,66, ,68-70,72,73,75,78-80,87,88,91-93,95,97-102 ,106,110-112,119,130,133,134,146-150 ,153,160,163,181,184,187,190,IBC LGJ#0 - 8,11,12 LGJ#1 - 13,19,30 LGJ#2 - 19,26,30 LGJ#3 - 14,23,28-30 LGJ#4 - 10,16,20,29,30 LGJ#5 - 7,30 LOG - Dis,1,6,8,11-13,15,17,20,21,24-29,31,32,34,36-48,50-69 ,73-85,88-90,93,94,96-99,101-109,111,112 NA Pg # - 398 ONW1-01 - 2-15 ONW1-02 - 4,5,11 ONW1-03 - 4-8,12,14-17 ONW1-04 - 4,5 ONW1-05 - 3-7 ONW1-06 - 4,5,8,10 ONW1-07 - 4-10 ONW1-08 - 5,6,12,13 PGTG - 4,5,7,10-12,22,24,25,36,37,45,46,49 RTO8 - 2,59,60 SAG1 - 61 SLV - 3,18,34,35,37,53,87,89,92,93,99,103,104,107 ,116,119,121-123 SOD - 21,23-25,27,28,59,68,81,88-90,255,386,389 T1-4 - 99 TAB - 3,12,16,18,19,24-38,62,64,79,80,86,96,119,123 TOH - 5 TSB WG8 - 8,13,21,40,46,50,53,57,88-90,92,104,105,107-114,116-119,125 WGG - IBC,2,5,7,15 WGM1 - 10 WGR1 - 82 WGR3 - 4,6,7 WGR4 - 9,10,36,63,64,73,74,89 WGR5 - 6 WGS1 - 3 WGS2 - 5 WOGA - 9,13,33,IBC WOGG - 11,17 Oh, and some people will tell you the SB accessory was bad because it didn't live up to their expectations but when you have only limited material at your disposal, it's still a lot better than nothing. I doubt you'll find many people having played a SB monk in an actual game. See, unlike the FR where people think it's cool to play the bad guys (Zhentarim spy, Thayan wizard, etc..), this is GH. The SB is one of the most evil organizations around. Sure, they may appear friendly and helpful and they'll always be eager to lend you a hand. The problem comes with the price tag... Basically, since the end of the GH Wars, no one trust them and since they have a near-monopoly on monkhood (is there such a word?) people tend to get suspicious rather quickly if you start doing some funky move with your body to win any fight. It doesn't help the rare (other) (Bakluni mainly) monks out there but then life was never fair. I guess one could play an undercover SB agent but to what purpose? If the other members of your team discover who you are, you're finished. And if they dont, betraying them continuously would get old after a while. Unless your DM is in for an "all-evil" campaign of course, in which case I imagine a whole team of SB adventurers could be created. Might even be fun, if you found the right type of players to pull it off
#3 lord_zeb_02 Nov 11, 2005 12:11:11	Thanks! I have the Dragon CD compilation, so I'll have to do some digging into that since I don't own very much GH material. I've been a homebrew, OA and FR GM for D&D over the years, and a player in most of the settings (mostly in homebrew). Interesting about the PC as villains, which I have seen quite a bit, and played a couple of times myself. I could definitely see how a mixed party with a SB monk would be hard to pull off / keep up believability, but an all SB group could be fun to GM for. From my reading of the SB PDF, their ideology might hit a bit too close to Earth racism for my group to really get into it, but I am curious if someone else has pulled it off before. OTOH, the Earth-like racism makes them appealing as clear cut bad guys for a group of Good/Neutral PCs. Thanks again.
#4 crag Nov 11, 2005 13:07:46	Well I personally don't generally enjoy an all "evil" game for the PCs, unless they are very good roleplayers since in my experience the game quickly degenerates into back-biting and homocidal bloodlust with the excuse "but I'm evil". There is a difference between evil and stupid, which if played right the SB is a perfect example to illustrate this point. As shown in the SB supplement, SB does send out adventuring parties to acquire magic, wealth and experience and with their over-arching philosophy, as repugnant as it is, it should eliminate the greed, betrayal and mindless violence that hampers most "evil" parties simply because all the PCs have the same core goal and will be held accountable by the organisation if their actions endangered the groups success - SB isn't known for it's merciful understanding of failure.
#5 lord_zeb_02 Nov 11, 2005 13:17:16	I have a great group of guys, and we've never spiraled down into the backstabbing type of games. "Evil people can still have friends" is our philosophy. Especially in a tough as nails D&D world, allies are a good thing. The fact that the SB are a smart group is what is appealing, and I'm slowly coming off my Bard kick and beginning to have a Monk one, hence the interest in monkly bad guys.
#6 ajs Nov 15, 2005 22:14:52	I've been having fun with the idea of evil in Greyhawk recently. I have a character that tends to go around detecting evil everywhere he can and attacking whenever he gets a positive. As an offset for that, I've constructed a scenario where the fate of some very helpless people depends on a group of evil folks who have been defending them in return for supplies, medical support, etc. They ARE evil (most of them, anyway), but they're also needed. It will be interesting to see what the good paladin does when faced with this situation. If he's not carefull, he might end up having a town to protect ;) On the other hand, I was also thinking on introducing the Brotherhood as an antagonist. I have a player that has some ties to them, and was going to play that up as a problem for the party... should be interesting. What's the best reference for the Brotherhood, if I specifically want to know what they've been up to since the Wars?
#7 zombiegleemax Nov 16, 2005 1:10:25	The SB I have found is a great addition to a "secret" evil that can heighten a sense of paranoia. You never know who can be SB, a rescued princess, the local blacksmith, whomever. You can have the SB an everpresent opponent but rarely have to ever meet one.