Iron Heroes and Dark Sun - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Iron Heroes and Dark Sun

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Nov 17, 2005 13:55:15 Has anyone here successfully implemented Iron Heroes into the Dark Sun setting? I've been kicking the idea around and wanted to hear some feedback.
#2
Pennarin
Nov 18, 2005 4:11:41 Try EN World, they have threads on that.
#3
nytcrawlr
Nov 18, 2005 7:38:06
Has anyone here successfully implemented Iron Heroes into the Dark Sun setting? I've been kicking the idea around and wanted to hear some feedback.

I will probably be using the feat progression as well as the way skills are done, and probably the stunt system, but leaving the classes the way athas.org has them done with a few twists here and there.

Oh, and I'm definately using the idea that the characters have to rely on their abilities more than what equipment they have and just have the equipment compliment them instead of define them.
#4
frankthedm
Sep 24, 2006 2:14:11 Same thought i had. Iron heroes has a lot more sword and sorcery feel than the D&D rulesets. To me if a character can't say **** magic after what arcanists did to Athas without being crippled in power, there is something lost. The assumptions Wotc built into D&D mean a character that does not have thier body laden with every enchanted they can scrounge up is far behind the power curve.

The over the top iron heroes damage bonuses can be checked by a world where most weapons are peices of crap that snap whe you hit too hard with them. [Quickdraw just got real valuable, as it should be]

Armor as DR and worse movement hits on heavy armor helps equalize armor vs no armor. To draw a quality destinction, the revised DR for metal armor, the IH Book DR value for non metal armor.

The Iron Heoes Poison lore helps take care of the the DS bard being the odd man out [the only person with toxins by the normal rules].

The untrustable magic of iron heroes works well in conjuntion with the Defiler concept. Since iron heroes arcanists are assumed to be a bit weak compared to thier other counterparts, they could snag modest channalling bonuses by defiling.:D

The Psionics would be tricky, but I think the trouble would be worth it.

The Evil NPC spellcaster get to import thier magic abilities from where the DM wants them to. If the DM wants the Sorcerer Kings to reign unchallenged, just give them broken magic abilities from other systems, like damage reflecting [ouch] rather than using complex builds trying to shoehorn godlike power from a system built to avoid allow that.

Sidenote: A skill based psi system might be fun to tack on.
#5
Ramar_Aulinvox
Dec 24, 2007 10:08:28 Has anyone used Iron Heroes in their campaign? frankthedm, the skill based psi system that you mention, do you mean the Psychic's Handbook by Greenronin? I've been playing around with the idea of implementing these changes. I would appreciate any imput that anyone can give.
#6
kelsen
Dec 27, 2007 9:39:55 frankthedm,

I would like to see a psionics system based on skills (e.g. five base skills Clairsentient, Psychokinetic, Psychometabolic, Psychoportive, and Telepathic) and feats (each feat related to a different power, linked to one of the five psionic skills and activated by a skill check). The psionic primary discipline would work as his class skill, while all the others psionic skills would be considered as cross-class skills. I would adopt a mechanic similar to the presented in the STAR WARS game, so instead of power points, psionic powers would cost by vitaly points (e.g. take little non-lethal hp damage).

PSIONIC COMBAT. For psionic combat I like one of the old´s athas.org ideas of using psionic harbingers. I would use the "astral construct" templates (from the EPHB) to represent HOW psionic trained minds appear in the mindscape. In the other hand, wild talents and non-psionic minds would appear in the mindscape just as they are (using the normal character stats and equipment). When psionic minds ("astral constructs templates") combat non-psionic minds in the mindscape, their astral constructs would be treated as incorporeal creatures. Thus, psionic astral construct attacks ignore non-psionic creature´s armor, even magic armor (unless it has the the "psionic touch ability", wich would work as the "ghost touch" ability but related to the mindscape). As incorporeal creatures in the mindscape, astral constructs would only be harmed by other astral constructs, and they would be immune to all nonmagical attack forms (e.g. mundane weapons or natural attacks) from non-psionic creatures (wild talents could take PSIONIC TOUCH FEAT, and spend a "psionic focus" to make their next attack roll deal damage against a psionic astral constructs). Even when struck by magic or magic weapons, a psionic astral construct in the mindscape would have 50% chance to ignore any damage from a non-psionic source - except for force effects, such as magic missile, or damage dealt by a "psionic touch weapon".
#7
Ramar_Aulinvox
Dec 27, 2007 12:31:26 Check out the Psychic's Handbook by Greenronin to see a "psionic" system based on skills.

Mindscapes from Malhavoc Press has a varient psionic combat system.
#8
kelsen
Dec 28, 2007 20:32:39 Thanks Ramar,

I don´t like mindscapes, but I think I will try the Psychic's Handbook.

I have been reading Iron Heroes recently and find their skills system (specially the challenges system and the rule for extended checks) very nice.

The Feat mastery system is cool, but very complicated for my taste.

Personally, I don´t like armor as DR, because it makes very complicated to adapt the role system (monsters, spells, etc.) just to make armor as DR. In the other hand, the Iron Heroes concept of a variable DR reduction for each armor (for instance, 1d3 DR for studded leather, 1d4 DR for scalemail), instead of a fixed value (as presentend at Unearthed Arcana) makes a lot of sense for me.

In DS campaings with severe magical item scarcity (such as mine), I have being testing a successful mixed system that combines Base Defense Bonus progression (BDB) with equipment armor bonus.

I adopt base defense bonus progressions of +9 for classes with top BAB +20 (such as gladiators), BDB +6 for classes with top BAB +15 (such as rogues), and BDB +3 for classes with top BAB +10 (such as wizards).

Armor bonus stack with BDB progression, but medium and heavy armor use is severy restricted by the Athasian heat.

Most characters use light non-armor (armor bonus +3) or piecemeal armor (thanks to the excelent piecemeal rules recently added by Athasian Emporium Acessory). Also, since most medium armor and heavy armor must be made of metal (exception for Scalemail, medium armor AC +4, and Chitinmail, heavy armor, AC +5) the price is also a severe obstacle for using heavy armors.

For metal armor in specific, beyond the Heat dangers rules presented by athas.org, I also rule that a character using metal armor can fight normally only for a number of rounds equal to one-half his Constitution Score (rounded down). After that period, a character must make a Fort Save DC 10, +1 for each previous check or become fatigued (or exhausted, if already fatigued). Similar to the rules for running presented in the PHB. DS 2e also used a similar mechanic.

This system has been working well so far, at least for me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Nov 17, 2005 13:55:15	Has anyone here successfully implemented Iron Heroes into the Dark Sun setting? I've been kicking the idea around and wanted to hear some feedback.
#2 Pennarin Nov 18, 2005 4:11:41	Try EN World, they have threads on that.
#3 nytcrawlr Nov 18, 2005 7:38:06	Has anyone here successfully implemented Iron Heroes into the Dark Sun setting? I've been kicking the idea around and wanted to hear some feedback. I will probably be using the feat progression as well as the way skills are done, and probably the stunt system, but leaving the classes the way athas.org has them done with a few twists here and there. Oh, and I'm definately using the idea that the characters have to rely on their abilities more than what equipment they have and just have the equipment compliment them instead of define them.
#4 frankthedm Sep 24, 2006 2:14:11	Same thought i had. Iron heroes has a lot more sword and sorcery feel than the D&D rulesets. To me if a character can't say **** magic after what arcanists did to Athas without being crippled in power, there is something lost. The assumptions Wotc built into D&D mean a character that does not have thier body laden with every enchanted they can scrounge up is far behind the power curve. The over the top iron heroes damage bonuses can be checked by a world where most weapons are peices of crap that snap whe you hit too hard with them. [Quickdraw just got real valuable, as it should be] Armor as DR and worse movement hits on heavy armor helps equalize armor vs no armor. To draw a quality destinction, the revised DR for metal armor, the IH Book DR value for non metal armor. The Iron Heoes Poison lore helps take care of the the DS bard being the odd man out [the only person with toxins by the normal rules]. The untrustable magic of iron heroes works well in conjuntion with the Defiler concept. Since iron heroes arcanists are assumed to be a bit weak compared to thier other counterparts, they could snag modest channalling bonuses by defiling.:D The Psionics would be tricky, but I think the trouble would be worth it. The Evil NPC spellcaster get to import thier magic abilities from where the DM wants them to. If the DM wants the Sorcerer Kings to reign unchallenged, just give them broken magic abilities from other systems, like damage reflecting [ouch] rather than using complex builds trying to shoehorn godlike power from a system built to avoid allow that. Sidenote: A skill based psi system might be fun to tack on.
#5 Ramar_Aulinvox Dec 24, 2007 10:08:28	Has anyone used Iron Heroes in their campaign? frankthedm, the skill based psi system that you mention, do you mean the Psychic's Handbook by Greenronin? I've been playing around with the idea of implementing these changes. I would appreciate any imput that anyone can give.
#6 kelsen Dec 27, 2007 9:39:55	frankthedm, I would like to see a psionics system based on skills (e.g. five base skills Clairsentient, Psychokinetic, Psychometabolic, Psychoportive, and Telepathic) and feats (each feat related to a different power, linked to one of the five psionic skills and activated by a skill check). The psionic primary discipline would work as his class skill, while all the others psionic skills would be considered as cross-class skills. I would adopt a mechanic similar to the presented in the STAR WARS game, so instead of power points, psionic powers would cost by vitaly points (e.g. take little non-lethal hp damage). PSIONIC COMBAT. For psionic combat I like one of the old´s athas.org ideas of using psionic harbingers. I would use the "astral construct" templates (from the EPHB) to represent HOW psionic trained minds appear in the mindscape. In the other hand, wild talents and non-psionic minds would appear in the mindscape just as they are (using the normal character stats and equipment). When psionic minds ("astral constructs templates") combat non-psionic minds in the mindscape, their astral constructs would be treated as incorporeal creatures. Thus, psionic astral construct attacks ignore non-psionic creature´s armor, even magic armor (unless it has the the "psionic touch ability", wich would work as the "ghost touch" ability but related to the mindscape). As incorporeal creatures in the mindscape, astral constructs would only be harmed by other astral constructs, and they would be immune to all nonmagical attack forms (e.g. mundane weapons or natural attacks) from non-psionic creatures (wild talents could take PSIONIC TOUCH FEAT, and spend a "psionic focus" to make their next attack roll deal damage against a psionic astral constructs). Even when struck by magic or magic weapons, a psionic astral construct in the mindscape would have 50% chance to ignore any damage from a non-psionic source - except for force effects, such as magic missile, or damage dealt by a "psionic touch weapon".
#7 Ramar_Aulinvox Dec 27, 2007 12:31:26	Check out the Psychic's Handbook by Greenronin to see a "psionic" system based on skills. Mindscapes from Malhavoc Press has a varient psionic combat system.
#8 kelsen Dec 28, 2007 20:32:39	Thanks Ramar, I don´t like mindscapes, but I think I will try the Psychic's Handbook. I have been reading Iron Heroes recently and find their skills system (specially the challenges system and the rule for extended checks) very nice. The Feat mastery system is cool, but very complicated for my taste. Personally, I don´t like armor as DR, because it makes very complicated to adapt the role system (monsters, spells, etc.) just to make armor as DR. In the other hand, the Iron Heroes concept of a variable DR reduction for each armor (for instance, 1d3 DR for studded leather, 1d4 DR for scalemail), instead of a fixed value (as presentend at Unearthed Arcana) makes a lot of sense for me. In DS campaings with severe magical item scarcity (such as mine), I have being testing a successful mixed system that combines Base Defense Bonus progression (BDB) with equipment armor bonus. I adopt base defense bonus progressions of +9 for classes with top BAB +20 (such as gladiators), BDB +6 for classes with top BAB +15 (such as rogues), and BDB +3 for classes with top BAB +10 (such as wizards). Armor bonus stack with BDB progression, but medium and heavy armor use is severy restricted by the Athasian heat. Most characters use light non-armor (armor bonus +3) or piecemeal armor (thanks to the excelent piecemeal rules recently added by Athasian Emporium Acessory). Also, since most medium armor and heavy armor must be made of metal (exception for Scalemail, medium armor AC +4, and Chitinmail, heavy armor, AC +5) the price is also a severe obstacle for using heavy armors. For metal armor in specific, beyond the Heat dangers rules presented by athas.org, I also rule that a character using metal armor can fight normally only for a number of rounds equal to one-half his Constitution Score (rounded down). After that period, a character must make a Fort Save DC 10, +1 for each previous check or become fatigued (or exhausted, if already fatigued). Similar to the rules for running presented in the PHB. DS 2e also used a similar mechanic. This system has been working well so far, at least for me.