Do you think half-dragons fit into the setting as representing the offspring or descendants of the Dragon-Kings?
Since the Dark Sun is influenced by Elemental forces so much, I kind of like the idea of planetouched-genasi as a player race. Has anyone tried this?
Do you think half-dragons fit into the setting as representing the offspring or descendants of the Dragon-Kings?
I've thought of using genasi but could never decide how they could or would fit on Athas. I was toying around with the idea that elemental clerics could become genasi thru some special pact made with their patron element. It would be gift or blessing that elemental lords would grant to those characters especially devoted to their element.
Half-dragon's I've never really thought about. I think the only way I'd allow them would be thru an altered version of the dragon disciple PrC.
Since the Dark Sun is influenced by Elemental forces so much, I kind of like the idea of planetouched-genasi as a player race. Has anyone tried this?
Rather than Genasi, I've been planning on integrating the Elemental-variant races from Unearthed Arcana as a possibility -- mainly as decendants of Cleric-Elementals and stuff.
Just like I've considered using the Environmental-variant races as decendants of Spirits of the Land.
Do you think half-dragons fit into the setting as representing the offspring or descendants of the Dragon-Kings?
Not really. Half-dragons just don't feel right to me. I have Sorcerers be the decendants of the arcane Advanced Beings (either Dragons or Avangions, but there are no decendants of Avangions in my campaigns). Dragons on Athas just aren't naturally-occuring beings, and I don't think that the mutations caused by th Arcane spells would have any strong hereditary qualities that physically manefest. However the amount of power within a Dragon could spark a natural, innate ability to use arcane magic. 'Course I have most Sorcerers end up as Defilers because they are untrusted by Wizards, and aren't prone to needing training (they tend to figure everything out on their own).
In fact, I actually have the majority of Preservers be Wizards, while the majority of Sorcerers be Defilers in my setting. There's no real mechanical reasoning for this -- it's purely flavor. Wizards are trained, and Preservers can teach apprentice Wizards how to control the flow of energy. There are a number of Wizards that are Defilers, in my setting, but the majority of the Preservers are actually Wizards. The flip-side is Sorcerers, who usually figure everything out on their own. and most frequently find the lure of Defiling to be too great, and don't usually have a master there to show them the importance of Preserving. This would tend to make most Sorcerers be Defilers.
I've also more or less gotten close to completing my rules for the "New Races" -- those cursed by the mutagenic abiliy of the Pristine Tower leaving people twisted, malformed, and sometimes radicaly different from what they once were. Combined with Elemental and Environmental variant races, I think that will provide a ton of variety for players to deal with in my games.
Plus, I've been strongly considering "fleshing out" the list of sentient races into full Race write-ups for players to choose from in my campaigns. And possibly trying to find some way to provide a few more crossbreed variants (probably through adaption of Bastards & Bloodlines).
Just can't see halfdragon's workin', however. Although whatever floats your boat, I suppose.
I am somewhat interested in seeing a few other races involved, though. The dromites seem like a good fit, to me, as do Penn's illithids, but only in distant lands.
I would like to see additional things like tareks as PCs and stuff- I think I will be including a New Race's or something like that in the NPC Guide that will have a few NPC's with stats that are not from the 'core' races.
Yah there are a number of non-standard races already created for or included in the setting that just haven't seen very much attention as potential player character races.
The following are particularly appealing:
Tari, Tareks, Bvanen, Dray 1st and 2nd generation (which make a suitable stand in for half-dragons by the way), Half-Elementals (which make a suitable stand in for the less potent genasi), Jozhals, Athasian Lizardfolk, Nikaal, Ssurran, and Villichi
These could races could also make for interesting characters, but could pose greater difficulties:
Anakore (Dune Freaks), Gith, Hej-kin, Reggelid, Silt Runners, Trin, Tul'k
The following are particularly appealing:
Tari, Tareks, Bvanen, Dray 1st and 2nd generation (which make a suitable stand in for half-dragons by the way), Half-Elementals (which make a suitable stand in for the less potent genasi), Jozhals, Athasian Lizardfolk, Nikaal, Ssurran, and Villichi
I actually made a tari PrC awhile back located here. Scroll to the bottom of the thread for the final version.
I think if you can accept the fact that there are half-elementals, then you can accept the fact there are genasi (though somewhat further down the "family tree").
Half-drakes and half-elementals are indeed strong standins for half-dragons and genasis.
In fact, I actually have the majority of Preservers be Wizards, while the majority of Sorcerers be Defilers in my setting. There's no real mechanical reasoning for this -- it's purely flavor. Wizards are trained, and Preservers can teach apprentice Wizards how to control the flow of energy. There are a number of Wizards that are Defilers, in my setting, but the majority of the Preservers are actually Wizards. The flip-side is Sorcerers, who usually figure everything out on their own. and most frequently find the lure of Defiling to be too great, and don't usually have a master there to show them the importance of Preserving. This would tend to make most Sorcerers be Defilers.
Great post here (if I may diverge from the main thread)
I'd be inclined to think the same, i.e. that Defilers are mostly sorcerors taking a quick and easy route to power.
Under 2nd Ed. there was an obvious reason why one would choose the path of the defiler (faster progression) to preserver but the 3rd Ed balances these out more. I'm not saying this is a bad thing but there's gotta be a credible reason to choose to become a defiler over a preserver in the first place, given the wide-spread hatred of them and other disadvantages. Perhaps a way around this is to allow them to choose the sorceror or wizard/specialist path but preservers can only be wizards or specialists. Or has anyone come up with a better solution?
To keep on track with the main thread: I'd also go with half-elementals being some kind of plane touched descendents of cleric-elementals. To me, half-dragons just don't seem to fit right.
Just a thought. I may try and put together a rule set for this over the weekend.
Great post here (if I may diverge from the main thread)
I'd be inclined to think the same, i.e. that Defilers are mostly sorcerors taking a quick and easy route to power.
Under 2nd Ed. there was an obvious reason why one would choose the path of the defiler (faster progression) to preserver but the 3rd Ed balances these out more. I'm not saying this is a bad thing but there's gotta be a credible reason to choose to become a defiler over a preserver in the first place, given the wide-spread hatred of them and other disadvantages. Perhaps a way around this is to allow them to choose the sorceror or wizard/specialist path but preservers can only be wizards or specialists. Or has anyone come up with a better solution?
First, I don't allow for specialist Wizards. They just don't fit with the setting for me. Second, I let the players choose if they want to slip into Defiling or stick to Preserving. I tend to use a variation of Noonian's Defiling rules (about the only real useful thing to come from Dim Sun), only I've integrated the addiction rules from the Book of Vile Darkness to make it even more worrysome.
I feel that half dragons would fit if it were something a character had to work up to rather than starting off as a full blown half dragon. What if there was feat that was able to be taken at character creation which gave a being lineage to one of the SKs? Lets call it Bloodline of Kings. This feat could be a prereq for a altered version of the Dragon Disciple PrC which rewards the character at the final level of the PrC by granting them the half dragon template.
Just a thought. I may try and put together a rule set for this over the weekend.
That is a rather sweet idea Sysane- maybe make it a layered feat progression with each feat granting a cool bonus- you could, and I do not know if this is allowed- but you could make three 3 level PrCs (like the 9 stages of the defiler metamorphasis) that build of one another with the final benefit being the half-dragon template.
I would be willing to help you out with this if you would like an additional brain thrown in the mix!
That is a rather sweet idea Sysane- maybe make it a layered feat progression with each feat granting a cool bonus- you could, and I do not know if this is allowed- but you could make three 3 level PrCs (like the 9 stages of the defiler metamorphasis) that build of one another with the final benefit being the half-dragon template.
I would be willing to help you out with this if you would like an additional brain thrown in the mix!
I'll send you an e-mail with what I come up with over the weekend. I don't have anything super elaborate planned (I don't feel that there really needs to be). I just need to write up the Bloodline of Kings feat and change the Dragon Disciple PrC some what to reflect that there is only one dragon type vs multicolored (i.e. red, gold, copper, etc...) along with some of the prereqs for the PrC.
If you wold like some additional help with the writing then just let me know and I will do what I can.
Thanks for letting me in on this! :D
A half-elemental and a genasi are not the same thing. A half-elemental is the result of a union between an elemental and a human, while a genasi is a humanoid with a trace of elemental in his ancestry that manifests itself in that character--just like an aasimar is not a half-celestial or a tiefling is not a half-fiend.
I don't think you're telling anyone anything they don't already know
.I think if you can accept the fact that there are half-elementals, then you can accept the fact there are genasi (though somewhat further down the "family tree").
You could easily allow half-elementals without allowing genasi. The main problem I have with genasi is that they aren't a template and so only represent humans with elemental ancestry. Also, the genasi are horribly unbalanced in relation to eachother. The Air genasi is by far the most powerful, they can levitate and don't even need to breathe. The Fire genasi has a completely useless special ability "Control Flames", it doesn't actually control the flames it just makes them brighter or dimmer. Not worth a level adjustement at all. The Water ones pretty decent, breath underwater, swim speed... but not so much on Athas. And the Earth genasi sucks almost as much as the fire one, but at least Pass Without Trace is a useful spell. Honestly, if you want to have some connection to the elements that isn't very strong you might as well just take a level in cleric.
I would be happy to allow genasi into my game if they were worth allowing.
These could races could also make for interesting characters, but could pose greater difficulties: Anakore (Dune Freaks), Gith, Hej-kin, Reggelid, Silt Runners, Trin, Tul'k
We actually considered including gith as a core race in DS 3.5, but decided to stick with the original races.
You could easily allow half-elementals without allowing genasi. The main problem I have with genasi is that they aren't a template and so only represent humans with elemental ancestry. Also, the genasi are horribly unbalanced in relation to eachother. The Air genasi is by far the most powerful, they can levitate and don't even need to breathe. The Fire genasi has a completely useless special ability "Control Flames", it doesn't actually control the flames it just makes them brighter or dimmer. Not worth a level adjustement at all. The Water ones pretty decent, breath underwater, swim speed... but not so much on Athas. And the Earth genasi sucks almost as much as the fire one, but at least Pass Without Trace is a useful spell. Honestly, if you want to have some connection to the elements that isn't very strong you might as well just take a level in cleric.
I would be happy to allow genasi into my game if they were worth allowing.
Indeed this is a problem. Since the people who brought us ToA invented their own version of a certain elemental creature (because the original wasn't OGC), it goes to think they could come up their own - wrothwhile to play - version of the genasis.
All genasis could come from the Silt Archipelago where, due to the presence of Euripis' elemental inhabitants, humans or some other race has mixed with them to produce genasi.
I know it is vague, but it made me think- now here is a race that would be interesting to play. I will look in the book when I get home and give some better details. :embarrass
The entry you are describing is the Ruvoka, said to be planar travelers. In addition, Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix III had an entry for the Ruvoka, which explains they come from Athas and are created when druids travel to an inner plane and kinda become natives of the place.
The revised boxed set mentions Ukoven, the half-elemental inhabitants of Euripis, in the Silt Archipelago.
Probably that, due to their description, Ruvoka will be epic creatures. It would be fun if one were able to become such a creature à la advanced beings, i.e. a druid casts an epic spell while on an elemental plane and voilà he's a Ruvoka.
I discussed with someone lately that there should be - outside of the Tablelands - other forms of "advanced beings" that are less powerful but that do not require psionics. Transforming into a Ruvoka might be one.
Add the following abilities to each of the other genasi:
Water: Unthirsting- A water genasi need never drink water to avoid dehydration.
Fire: Inner Flame- A fire genasi is uneffected by extremes in temperature effectively gaining fire and cold resistance 10
Earth: Rockskin- An Earth genasi has rocklike skin that grants DR 2/-
imagine the templars that first 'volunteered' the SK's new 'training' program.
... one could also introduce draconic humans/elves/muls/dwarves this way
Once again I propose, rather than Genasi, use the Elemental Variants rules from Unearthed Arcana. Then you could end up with Earth Dwarves, Fire Humans, and Air Elves. WHo needs a single race, when you can just modify any existing race to have elemental qualities?
That would be preferable.
In the mean time I started a thread on the races board on fixes to hte genasi, if you all care to visit it from time to time, to see what comes of it:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7915893#post7915893