(pg.79). Here is the text: "...Elder Elves standing in the largest city of
an Elder empire located in what is not a sunken island chain known as the
Lost Realm of Olefin."
My first thought is that Olefin was the name of the Elder empire. However,
the text could be read to say that the island chain where said empire once
was is now known as "The Lost Realm of Olefin." I've done WWW searches,
including in the GREYHAWK-L archives, and have found no reference to Olefin
in GREYHAWK. That leads me to believe Olefin is the empire, as I originally
thought.
Anyone able to steer me in the right direction?
It is a way cool module, although it would require some significant tweaks to make it 3.5 compatible. (Particularly with the psionics and changes to the base racial abilities of the main critter in the first section.)
And several elements from it appear in other Bruce Cordell works that have a Greyhawk element. (Like Return to White Plume Mountain.)
But Gates itself is not a specifically Greyhawk module, nor is the background specifically Greyhawk related, or acknowledged as canon.
So if you want direction to Greyhawk references, I am pretty sure none exist.
If you want direction to other elements, I would think looking in D20 products Bruce Cordell has written would be the place to start. Having to buy most all the WotC stuff, I don't have the cash for such, so I don't know if there are more references in any of them, but that's where I'd go looking.
As for sunken island chains on Oerth, there are two known: the Isles of Woe in what is now the Nyr Dyv once had a nation on them. There is also the Sinking Isle near the Sea Barons, about which Greyhawk Adventures said "The earliest Oeridian tribes to fish the Solnor there knew of it; the Flan before them had legends of it; the seagoing elves of Lendore Isle have tales yet more ancient. Neither our own civilization nor even that of the Elvenfolk was the first in the Flanaess; there were others in times so far past that the very shape of the lands has since changed. The Sinking Isle is a reminder of them." It seems very possible the Sinking Isle was once part of a chain, though it would be slightly odd (though not impossible) if a civilization that preceded the elves was an even older group of elves or proto-elves. The Sinking Isle does have the ruins of a city on it, and it's certainly Lovecraftian enough to fit with Gates of Firestorm Peak (though its inspiration is probably more immediately Fritz Lieber). It doesn't seem unreasonable to think that a civilization of elves or elflike beings living on an archipelago north of what are now Asperdi summoned something unspeakable, sank their islands, and perhaps devolved into sahuaghin long before the present elven civilizations entered the region.
Note that Bruce Cordell's d20 material is not connected with the themes developed in his D&D/AD&D modules; he starts a whole new cycle of ghastliness that winds its way through the Malhavoc Press stuff. However, in Dragon #330 Cordell revisits the Far Realm and its background.
Olefin isn't mentioned by name, but we learn that the Elder Elves were "a recondite culture that thrived ages ago" but are now "gone, and all that remains of their works are fragmented stories, myths, and a terrible legacy." These people "sought to understand every facet of the planar cosmology they inhabited" and developed new arcane sciences to do so, with the obvious disastrous results.
Actually, that isn't really anything new, is it? They just phrased it in a different way. Still, I think the identification of Olefin with the Sinking Isle works pretty well.
It could also be that Olefin had a number of different races on it, including both Elder Elves and Vasharan.
Why not direct yourselves to his site, or Malhavoc's in which he might have a chance to answer the question?
I've often written Andy Collins with questions about something he's written and received a response - sometimes not what I was looking for and sometimes he has no idea what he was planning or if he was at all. Lots of times the writers don't have any potential reasoning for something, they're just writting and often times things need some sort of one line history - which then causes endless conversations, bickering, name calling, and Greyhawk quitting in general (ok, at least for GH fans it does) all due to some cool name and idea that doesn't really fit.
Or here's a cool plan. Since you're evidently interested, why don't you make the GoFP canonical. Don't worry about 3.5 stating it, Editions Change, Greyhawk Endures (canonfire), so write up a canonical historical aspect which gives exampels (some of which were posted above), with your reasons, sources and such as to why GoFP should be considered GH canonical - or if not itself, but the backgrounds - and submit it to CanonFire.com. Post to their message boards and get ideas, thoughts and concepts from your peers. Even better, use the forums there to tighten up your writting and submit it to the Oerth Journal (oerthjournal.com). The OJ is of course not canonical, as it's not produced by WotC (even RPGA isn't considered canonical to most, it's just another campaign) but it is peer reviewed - before the stories are published. Thus you'll have a hand in shaping what many people will use in their campaigns.
Rick is the editor, and he'll be more than happy to help you along the way. If you need books, sources and what not, I'll be happy to help there as well. A PDF copy of the pages is an easy task. Asking others for a Dragon Mag article or what they've thought, same with a Dungeon that takes place in GH and invovles ancient Olves, are all great sources to use when writing an article and help the GH Fanation to take your article seriously and make it canonical. (now, if we could just get those id10t5 (skr) at WotC to do some research before publishing we wouldn't have to take half the modules and re-work them to fit with history).
Be Well.
And, No, I'm Not Back.
Theocrat Issak
www.GreyhawkOnline.com
www.OerthJournal.com
www.ThePale.org
www.HealersUnion.com
I always assumed GoFP had been written for GH, just as Night Below had been. There simply wasn't any "GH" tag on it, that's all
The sequel, Sea of Blood, goes into a bit more detail on the Elder Elves, explaining that this is the name given to the united elven race before the split between surface elf and drow. The association with sahuagin (and the Elder Elves tampered with sahuagin quite a bit in their day) is another point in favor of associating Olefin with the Sinking Isle.
Man, can you believe how long it's been since this thread went up?
Some people have been noted as saying that Gary Holian is a computer program. I'm begining to belive that RipVanWormer is one as well. I mean, he's had to have been searching his PDF indexes and search "Finds" since this thread died in 2005. That's nearly 2 years. I mean, how does he find this stuff? And then on top of it to find a thread that you know was buried - esp. with the switch over to GleeMax. I'm telling you, I can feel him searching my vast collection of LG Modules via the WiFi!
Be Well. Be Well Protected from RVW Searches.
Theocrat Issak
Some people have been noted as saying that Gary Holian is a computer program. I'm begining to belive that RipVanWormer is one as well.
Perhaps there's a reason for the "Wormer" part?
