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#1zombiegleemaxDec 09, 2005 15:53:57 | Im new to ravenloft, I have the core books and am now getting ready to DM in Ravenloft however one of my players has asked about the warlock class. what im wondering is if anyone can give me a good disadvantage to the class like how other classes acumulate powerchecks. |
#2zombiegleemaxDec 09, 2005 20:34:48 | I actually know nothing of this class. Sounds interesting though. I however have the Quintessential Witch book and I've used Witch NPC's. Flavor wise its nice since so many places fear magic or don't believe it exists. |
#3MortepierreDec 10, 2005 3:42:00 | what im wondering is if anyone can give me a good disadvantage to the class like how other classes acumulate powerchecks. Do yourself a favor and drop that particular rule. That was the worst thing they did when they converted the RLPHB from 3.0 to 3.5. Frankly, do you find it honest that a guy would have a fixed chance of going corrupt just because he belongs to class X and happens to level up? Most RL DMs I know refuse to touch it with a 10 ft pole (and most players will refuse to play once they become aware of it). RL is about fighting the corruption in your soul and staying on the right path no matter how hard it is. It isn't about being cursed automatically because of a career choice! (except if you go for evil PrC such as Blackguard, etc...) As for the Warlock, treat him exactly as any other class. In other words: judge the PC on his actions. If he starts blasting around indiscriminately, 'reward' him by power checks. If he wounds/kills innocents, power check. You get the drift. Even if he is CE (which I wouldn't allow but that's just me), he is bound to fail checks and start on the path of damnation. Once he ends up a darklord, end of his career. Now, looking more deeply at the class, what do we see? Fiendish ancestors. Access to some fiendish abilities. A predisposition towards Chaos and Evil. Oooh boy! Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Creatures of evil (fiends in particular) will seek him out to try to recruit/convert him. If he resists, he'll be hunted down and killed before he can become a menace. Every time he uses a 'blast' or a class ability with the words 'fiend', 'hell', or 'dark' in it, I would impose a power check since those come as a legacy from fiendish ancestors. And if he does fail power checks, make him start to look more fiendish (horns, a tail, forked tongue, red eyes, ...). We'll see how long he appreciates his powers when he is run out of every town and village by fearful natives. |
#4zombiegleemaxDec 10, 2005 14:53:03 | I like the power check rules only in the fact that there is a way out, its hard but I like that struggle to become pure once again when your already on the path to damnation. for me it embodys bolth the phisical and mental stuggle against evil outside and inside the mind. the best Idea I have for the warlock class is to leave them alone for now and not add a penalty however when he does do something to result in a power check he does so at a double penalty because of the dual evils trying to corupt him. if pulled off right this will please my player because hes all about the inner stuggle against evil while battleing evil on the outside as well. I really like the idea of the fiends in ravenloft trying to corrupt him and when he resists trying to distroy him im sure ill have to use that when hes a higher level. im still looking for more ideas, so if anyone has some better ideas i would still love to hear them. |
#5thanaelDec 11, 2005 9:39:48 | I think he meant to drop the "automatic power check when advancing a level" rule. Not all power checks. Power checks should be triggered by actions of the PC, not by simply advanvcing a level. |
#6MortepierreDec 11, 2005 13:33:49 | Exactly (else I wouldn't have advised to use them for Warlocks..) |
#7zombiegleemaxDec 12, 2005 1:03:58 | Whoops, sorry, I agree with you there. I have decided to keep that rule if only because it keeps the players working for good and not walking a thin line of netrality. |
#8kintireDec 12, 2005 10:47:07 | Now, looking more deeply at the class, what do we see? Fiendish ancestors. Access to some fiendish abilities. A predisposition towards Chaos and Evil. Oooh boy! Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. A leetle harsh on the poor little warlock... he doesn't HAVE to be descended from fiends. Fae or other powers can work too. And it is Chaos OR Evil... While making his life difficult is just par for the course, having fiends show up with "join or die" demands is going to end in death. Also, many players migth get a little tetchy if you debar half their class abilities. What, after all, is wrong with dark? |
#9zombiegleemaxDec 12, 2005 12:18:29 | Many of his invocations mimic spells, so base the Powers Checks and Changes on the spells he's mimicing (like, "Dead that Walk" is a 3% Powers check...when the spell has multiple levels, either use the lowest or bas it off the power grade). Dark's should always call a Powers Check. The Rest depends on what it is and/or how it's used (curses, etc. = Powers Checks, while eldritch Blast is like any other attack spell...so it'd be target dependent). If an Invocation is evil but does not mimc a spell (or you chosse to go with this rule instead), then Least = 1%, Lesser =3%, Greater = 5%, and Dark = 8%. In general, if it calls for a Powers Check by nature of it's use alone, it should also be MORE effective than in a standard world...the Dark Powers like thier Evil Magic. Also, as an example, in the "Least" List, only Miasmatic Cloud is blatently evil (fatigues, hence necromantic, hence powers check) unless specific spell descriptions say otherwise (i'm lazy) |
#10Prof._PacaliDec 12, 2005 20:17:35 | One possibility is to increase a Warlock's Outcast Rating by +1 in areas that magic is feared, like Tepest or Barovia. Even Hazlani wizards will abhor a warlock for not casting spells "normally". Another possibility is to tie Warlocks into the Church of Hala, namely the Hallowed Witches found in Van Richten's Arsenal, and the 2E product Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendium Vol. III (Guide to Witches). This way, non-evil Warlocks can exist who draw on the Weave and Hala for their powers, rather than on a demonic or infernal heritage. |
#11MortepierreDec 13, 2005 3:34:08 | A leetle harsh on the poor little warlock... he doesn't HAVE to be descended from fiends. Fae or other powers can work too. And it is Chaos OR Evil... Sorry but I don't recall the Warlock being treated like a Sorcerer in CA. Given the kind of powers he wields, clearly his ancestors weren't happy-go-lucky brownies (or even redcaps). To quote: Many warlocks are champions of dark and chaotic powers. Long ago, they (or their ancestors) forged grim pacts with dangerous extraplanar powers, trading portions of their souls in exchange for supernatural power I am not saying you can't meet a "Good" warlock, only that no matter how hard they try, they have an inner darkness in (what's left of) their soul that is always trying to drag them towards Evil. Take a look at the pic in CA. Not exactly the kind of guy you would trust your life with, is he? If this were a "normal" setting, I wouldn't advise having fiends showing up all the time. But this is RL where there is only a limited few of these so it's not as if he was going to meet them every other day. However, IF he happens to be using his warlock powers AND one of the few "local" fiends is nearby, then you can bet your soul the fiend will come looking. Warlock is an option, not a core class. If a player asked me to play one, I would clearly outline the risks before allowing him to. If he still went on with it, then he would have to live (and - quite possibly - die) with it. As for "dark", just read the quote above. Do you seriously think it isn't used as a synonym of "evil"? Darkness/Evil has always been used as a symbolic adversary of Light/Good, and RL is all about symbolism. |
#12zombiegleemaxDec 15, 2005 14:41:34 | Complete Arcane pg 6 In fact, many Warlocks are created by nonevil powers wild or fey forces that can be every bit as dangerous as demons or devils. |
#13MortepierreDec 16, 2005 3:27:04 | Right.. and those "wild/fey" powers taught him to use something called "Hellrime Blast"? That line sounds suspiciously like something the author added as an afterthought when he realized just how "dark" and "evil" his new pet class would look. But, hey, to each his own. Have him descended from the Shadow Fey. At least, that'll explain the "dark" blast. Not that it will make him any safer given there are a lot more SF than fiends in RL... |
#14tykusDec 16, 2005 15:02:07 | Now, looking more deeply at the class, what do we see? Fiendish ancestors. Access to some fiendish abilities. A predisposition towards Chaos and Evil. Oooh boy! Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Don't forget that forces of Chaos are just as likely for warlocks as Evil ones. Hence, the cold-iron DR class ability. The fey and eladrin can host warlocks as well as any demon. |