Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2005 0:39:03	Nearly 1000 years ago, the Guvners formally met and decided what qualifications determine a Faction. Many groups had existed for many centuries, but this effort marked the first attempt to express what it meant to be a faction as opposed to a religion, sect, or organization. My question is: what are the qualifications for a faction? Here are some qualifications I have thought up: 1) Must believe in a philosophy that is independent from any Deity. 2) Must have substancial membership. 3) The prime philosophy for any faction be encompassing enough to privide debate among members concerning proper implementation of said philosophy. 4) The primary philosophy must attempt to explain the nature of the multiverse in one way or another. ... that's all I have upon initial thought of the matter. Case Study: Incantifiers The Incantifiers were a group of mages who absorbed magic in order to sustain life. They could use magic items, or abosorb spells straight from a caster in order to accomplish their goal. According to Sigilian history, the Incantifiers were once a faction. The question is, does this group meet the qualifications of an official Faction?
#2 ripvanwormer Dec 16, 2005 0:57:27	There's a great explanation of the difference between sects and factions at http://www.mimir.net/sects/sects.shtml To reverse engineer it, the definition of a faction is something like: 1. Must be influential on many planes, rather than just one local area. 2. Must be based in Sigil. 3. Must have a specific role to play in Sigil's society (for example, the Godsmen are blacksmiths, the Doomguard are weaponsmiths, and the Harmonium are the cops). 4. Must have a philosophy, an explanation for the meaning of existence (or lack thereof) and the problem of Pain. 5. This philosophy should be inclusive enough to encompass a lot of different alignments (this ties into criterion #1). The Sons of Mercy and Sodkillers are a little iffy, given criterion #5, but their only restrictions are "any good" and "any non-good," so that's still a pretty big area. The Incanterium was just a group of cutters who believed magic was the true power of the multiverse; everything comes from magic, everything is made of magic. Problems resulted from a lack of control and understanding of magic, and magic could solve them. They were primary mage's guild in Sigil, which was as easily as important a job as the Doomguard's role forging weapons. They were open to "any mage of any alignment," and were popular on all planes where magic worked. They were, by all definitions, a faction. The Incantifer transformation was something they resorted to after their base in Sigil had been destroyed, as a way of surviving long enough to carry on their beliefs after they no longer had a central place to store them.
#3 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2005 1:19:09	Okay, I guess I am having a bit of a confusion. I accept that the Incatifiers were different from the Incanifieram (mispelled). However, I brought them up because of the Dragon Mag. In Dragon, they are described as Mages that absorb magic, which goes along with the later form of the Incantifiers. This form, in my opinion could never have survivied as a Faction. But that goes along with your version that this form is just a sect of the once mighty Incantifieram. I can see this. A faction that believed that magic was the basis of all the multiverse would be powerful indeed. What do you think brought them down? Was it just that they became too powerful?
#4 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2005 2:48:20	you have to be orange, to own a parrot, to wear a top hat (or to wear a parrot, be a top hat and own an orange? and what do you do with an orange, berk? are you a grocer?...so, anyway welcome to the Xaositects
#5 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2005 2:52:25	LOL Diaboloc attorney. Never have the Xaositects been in question as a faction... whatever form they may take...
#6 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2005 3:40:54	LOL Diaboloc attorney. Never have the Xaositects been in question as a faction... whatever form they may take... Ah, are we a faction?..i believed we were a group of bagpiper's players...or a Chinese Takeaway in the Hive? Naturally, this is only my opinion, i don't speak for all the faction...even'cause i can't command the mouths of all Chaosmen..,or yes? maybe i'm a ventriloquist and i've never knew it until now....or maybe i've got an ivory skeleton ora a radar..i could be a whale! a whale who play a bagpipe, and can make bitonal concerts with its bagpipe and its blowhol! a bardic whale! ......ehy you blekers! what are you doing.? don't take me to the Madhouse!!!
#7 ripvanwormer Dec 16, 2005 10:28:37	In Dragon, they are described as Mages that absorb magic, which goes along with the later form of the Incantifiers. I'll have to see the article, but I may be leaning toward your earlier description of it. This is an outrage!
#8 ripvanwormer Dec 18, 2005 12:28:25	I'll have to see the article, but I may be leaning toward your earlier description of it. This is an outrage! Ah, shame on me for doubting! I thought Inarus was saying that the article described the old Incanterium as "magic-eating mages." After finally seeing the article, I'm relieved to see that it doesn't - it says that after the faction was destroyed, then former members reappeared in their transformed shape. It's less ambiguous about this than the old PSMCII, in fact. Yeah, it looks like a pretty great article to me. And I'm glad that my Amaggel theory has been semi-canonized. And the interior illustrations are beautiful! I especially love the Sigilscape and the Expansionist bariaur.