Avangion from Lynn Abbey - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Avangion from Lynn Abbey

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Dec 18, 2005 3:33:27 Was the representation of the avangion by Lynn Abbey a correct presentation of the metamorphosis or is it considered non-canonical.

If so does that mean that the avangion was using magical items to fuel the metamorphosis, he took that one chain mail thingy in the one book cant remember which one.

If so is that neccesary at every step of the metamorphosis? to assimilate a magical item that is.
#2
zombiegleemax
Dec 18, 2005 4:41:06 the lynn abbey example of amiska is probably the best written-out example of an avangion. the things she gathered and the parts of the ceremony, one could say were just various quest items that were considered material components.

the example of the sage from the sorak books, that's not such a great example, really.

i would say you could reasonably expect amiska to be canonical (packaged as it was with a canon adventure), but the simon hawke books are riddled with inconsistencies and i would suggest taking them as authorities with a pinch of salt.
#3
kalthandrix
Dec 18, 2005 8:17:30 I would have to say that I have always liked the idea of a potential avangion questing to recover items of power to use while going through their transformation- I think it shows how they approach the process with a greater amount of care and stuff.

It would also seem like a good way to mitigate some of the burn/backlash by using "power components" in the spell.
#4
Pennarin
Dec 18, 2005 14:49:35
Was the representation of the avangion by Lynn Abbey a correct presentation of the metamorphosis or is it considered non-canonical.

If so does that mean that the avangion was using magical items to fuel the metamorphosis, he took that one chain mail thingy in the one book cant remember which one.

If so is that neccesary at every step of the metamorphosis? to assimilate a magical item that is.

You are confusing the Amiska character ("Service" by Lynn Abbey, in Black Flames) with the Sage character (Tribe of One trilogy by Simon Hawk).
IIRC both are good examples of avangionhood (lots of people don't like the idea that the Sage is an avangion because of other reasons, IIRC too).

Both use items to facilitate the casting of their epic spell, Amiska even going as far as using conjunct moons - a rare happening - to cast hers. IIRC that was not part of the 2E avangion writeup in DK, but its being worked in the 3E one to add flavor.

The Sage did more than absorb, or just use (its not clear), the power of a few items, he also aborbed the multiple personalities of Sorak - and their inherent powers.

So it seems that there should be a mechanic to allow for ad hoc mitigating factors to be added to the casting of epic metamorphosis spells: items, conjunct moons, and unpredictable unique happenings.
#5
zombiegleemax
Dec 19, 2005 2:19:01 Where do I get this Amiska stuff from, really interested
#6
zombiegleemax
Dec 19, 2005 2:19:50 Heh i meant Hawke just put Lynn Abbey cuz I just read the RaFoaDK
#7
Zardnaar
Dec 19, 2005 3:40:23
Where do I get this Amiska stuff from, really interested

Short story in Black Flames adventure. Neat story and if official thats Avangion number 4. I bought mine from RPGnow.com
#8
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Dec 19, 2005 9:25:28 I personally like the idea of an Avangion using magic items as material components for the metamorphosis spells. In fact, that's what I see as the alternative Avangions use rather than the life-energy that Dragons use for the spells, potentially building up the wellspring of energy I see Avangions eventually having resulting in them always treating any terrain as the best terrain, but never drawing energy from outside of themselves for their own spells.
#9
ruhl-than_sage
Dec 19, 2005 20:54:31 So they gather the life energy indirectly, but in predistilled form... that makes a lot of sense actually. Though I think you might need to look a little further to explain the limitlessness of their energy.
#10
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Dec 19, 2005 21:19:48
So they gather the life energy indirectly, but in predistilled form... that makes a lot of sense actually. Though I think you might need to look a little further to explain the limitlessness of their energy.

I was figuring that they basically would build someelements of what a Tree of Life has, only internally to themselves. As such, I'd not be adverse to Avangions potentially needing some assistance from Druids...
#11
ruhl-than_sage
Dec 19, 2005 23:13:24
I was figuring that they basically would build someelements of what a Tree of Life has, only internally to themselves. As such, I'd not be adverse to Avangions potentially needing some assistance from Druids...

It could be really cool to develop these ideas in more depth for the avaingion transformation spell descriptions. I really like the connection your making and the direction this is headed in.
#12
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Dec 19, 2005 23:58:47
It could be really cool to develop these ideas in more depth for the avaingion transformation spell descriptions. I really like the connection your making and the direction this is headed in.

It's something I've had simmering for a while on a back burner, so to speak. The Avangion does need a little help mechanically. Remember -- they will be balanced with Dragons in power. Bear in mind though, I'd rather an exponential power progression through the different stages for an Avangion, as opposed to the linear progression the Dragons have -- with both of them meeting (becoming equal/equivalent in power) at stage-10. This means the Avangion might be a bit weaker at the beginning, with a much less noticeable difference between the first few stages, but with there being a much more steep boost at the later stages.
#13
Pennarin
Dec 20, 2005 0:26:45 If this is of any help...in the Arcane Shadows adventure Fevil is said to have sent his apprentice Hespulto to capture Korgunard because in his current state (either as a prisonner of his own arcane shadows, or midway within the casting of the metamorphosis spell, which one is not clear) the avangion can be used as a tree of life.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Dec 18, 2005 3:33:27	Was the representation of the avangion by Lynn Abbey a correct presentation of the metamorphosis or is it considered non-canonical. If so does that mean that the avangion was using magical items to fuel the metamorphosis, he took that one chain mail thingy in the one book cant remember which one. If so is that neccesary at every step of the metamorphosis? to assimilate a magical item that is.
#2 zombiegleemax Dec 18, 2005 4:41:06	the lynn abbey example of amiska is probably the best written-out example of an avangion. the things she gathered and the parts of the ceremony, one could say were just various quest items that were considered material components. the example of the sage from the sorak books, that's not such a great example, really. i would say you could reasonably expect amiska to be canonical (packaged as it was with a canon adventure), but the simon hawke books are riddled with inconsistencies and i would suggest taking them as authorities with a pinch of salt.
#3 kalthandrix Dec 18, 2005 8:17:30	I would have to say that I have always liked the idea of a potential avangion questing to recover items of power to use while going through their transformation- I think it shows how they approach the process with a greater amount of care and stuff. It would also seem like a good way to mitigate some of the burn/backlash by using "power components" in the spell.
#4 Pennarin Dec 18, 2005 14:49:35	Was the representation of the avangion by Lynn Abbey a correct presentation of the metamorphosis or is it considered non-canonical. If so does that mean that the avangion was using magical items to fuel the metamorphosis, he took that one chain mail thingy in the one book cant remember which one. If so is that neccesary at every step of the metamorphosis? to assimilate a magical item that is. You are confusing the Amiska character ("Service" by Lynn Abbey, in Black Flames) with the Sage character (Tribe of One trilogy by Simon Hawk). IIRC both are good examples of avangionhood (lots of people don't like the idea that the Sage is an avangion because of other reasons, IIRC too). Both use items to facilitate the casting of their epic spell, Amiska even going as far as using conjunct moons - a rare happening - to cast hers. IIRC that was not part of the 2E avangion writeup in DK, but its being worked in the 3E one to add flavor. The Sage did more than absorb, or just use (its not clear), the power of a few items, he also aborbed the multiple personalities of Sorak - and their inherent powers. So it seems that there should be a mechanic to allow for ad hoc mitigating factors to be added to the casting of epic metamorphosis spells: items, conjunct moons, and unpredictable unique happenings.
#5 zombiegleemax Dec 19, 2005 2:19:01	Where do I get this Amiska stuff from, really interested
#6 zombiegleemax Dec 19, 2005 2:19:50	Heh i meant Hawke just put Lynn Abbey cuz I just read the RaFoaDK
#7 Zardnaar Dec 19, 2005 3:40:23	Where do I get this Amiska stuff from, really interested Short story in Black Flames adventure. Neat story and if official thats Avangion number 4. I bought mine from RPGnow.com
#8 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Dec 19, 2005 9:25:28	I personally like the idea of an Avangion using magic items as material components for the metamorphosis spells. In fact, that's what I see as the alternative Avangions use rather than the life-energy that Dragons use for the spells, potentially building up the wellspring of energy I see Avangions eventually having resulting in them always treating any terrain as the best terrain, but never drawing energy from outside of themselves for their own spells.
#9 ruhl-than_sage Dec 19, 2005 20:54:31	So they gather the life energy indirectly, but in predistilled form... that makes a lot of sense actually. Though I think you might need to look a little further to explain the limitlessness of their energy.
#10 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Dec 19, 2005 21:19:48	So they gather the life energy indirectly, but in predistilled form... that makes a lot of sense actually. Though I think you might need to look a little further to explain the limitlessness of their energy. I was figuring that they basically would build someelements of what a Tree of Life has, only internally to themselves. As such, I'd not be adverse to Avangions potentially needing some assistance from Druids...
#11 ruhl-than_sage Dec 19, 2005 23:13:24	I was figuring that they basically would build someelements of what a Tree of Life has, only internally to themselves. As such, I'd not be adverse to Avangions potentially needing some assistance from Druids... It could be really cool to develop these ideas in more depth for the avaingion transformation spell descriptions. I really like the connection your making and the direction this is headed in.
#12 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Dec 19, 2005 23:58:47	It could be really cool to develop these ideas in more depth for the avaingion transformation spell descriptions. I really like the connection your making and the direction this is headed in. It's something I've had simmering for a while on a back burner, so to speak. The Avangion does need a little help mechanically. Remember -- they will be balanced with Dragons in power. Bear in mind though, I'd rather an exponential power progression through the different stages for an Avangion, as opposed to the linear progression the Dragons have -- with both of them meeting (becoming equal/equivalent in power) at stage-10. This means the Avangion might be a bit weaker at the beginning, with a much less noticeable difference between the first few stages, but with there being a much more steep boost at the later stages.
#13 Pennarin Dec 20, 2005 0:26:45	If this is of any help...in the Arcane Shadows adventure Fevil is said to have sent his apprentice Hespulto to capture Korgunard because in his current state (either as a prisonner of his own arcane shadows, or midway within the casting of the metamorphosis spell, which one is not clear) the avangion can be used as a tree of life.