SK familiars/psicrystals? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

SK familiars/psicrystals?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ruhl-than_sage
Dec 20, 2005 9:54:45 The question is simple. Do you think any of the SKs would have a familiar or psycrystal? If so, which ones and what kinds?
#2
Sysane
Dec 20, 2005 10:11:26 If they did, I don't think they would be your average run-of-the-mill familiars or psycrystals. I'd think they would have something more long the lines of the blackguard's Fiendish Servant ability.

They may even have a special hybrid of a familiar/psycrystal.
#3
ruhl-than_sage
Dec 20, 2005 13:36:51
If they did, I don't think they would be your average run-of-the-mill familiars or psycrystals. I'd think they would have something more long the lines of the blackguard's Fiendish Servant ability.

Considering that the familiar is a free class feature of any Wizard, I thought it odd that none of the SKs had one in any of the descriptions. Also, with their levels, Saving Throws, Hit Points (especially for those far along in their draconic transformation), etc the could have hellasious Improved Familiars.

They may even have a special hybrid of a familiar/psycrystal.

That sounds like a possible tie into the True Cerebramancer PrC
#4
Sysane
Dec 20, 2005 14:22:40 In the Draconomicon it talks about dragon familiars. Perhaps some of those mechanics could be ported over to DS dragons.
#5
Pennarin
Dec 20, 2005 14:54:30
In the Draconomicon it talks about dragon familiars. Perhaps some of those mechanics could be ported over to DS dragons.

Not much DS-ish, IMHO.
#6
Sysane
Dec 20, 2005 15:05:55
Not much DS-ish, IMHO.

It more than likely could be tailored to be though.
#7
nytcrawlr
Dec 20, 2005 15:13:19 Use drakes and such instead of dragons.

Not too hard to change, heh.
#8
ruhl-than_sage
Dec 20, 2005 20:18:45
In the Draconomicon it talks about dragon familiars. Perhaps some of those mechanics could be ported over to DS dragons.

I think Rajaat had one of those :D
#9
kalthandrix
Dec 20, 2005 20:20:53 The one problem with SK's hving a familiar ot psicrystal is the fact that, from what we have seen on the Who's Who and other recent threads, the SKs are highly mulitclassed with out a real heavy concentration as a straight Wizard or Psionicist- which is a requirement for good familiar progression.

So for them to have a familiar or psicrystal is actually a liability.

Thats my anyways.
#10
schizoidray
Dec 20, 2005 21:16:22 My take on the familiar issue is that most of the SK's are far too detatched to attract such an intimate relationship to themselves that would ultimately prove to be a liability anyway. They are too paranid to accept such a bond. No matter how powerfull such a creature became, it would be simple for a rival to use them to their own advantage, not only through xp drain upon its death, but using it as a conduit for scrying or spellcraft to affect it's master.
#11
elonarc
Dec 21, 2005 0:56:33 Of course, everyone knows about Nibenay's familiar. It's name is Dhojakt.
#12
Pennarin
Dec 21, 2005 1:04:14 None of the SKs seem to demonstrate in the novels that they boast psicrystals (not that there were any in 2E) or familiars, although Nibenay did have a favorite son he sorcerously tempered with, and Hamanu had several weirdos he kept under his wing (seen in all three novels by Abbey).
#13
ruhl-than_sage
Dec 21, 2005 1:41:01
The one problem with SK's hving a familiar ot psicrystal is the fact that, from what we have seen on the Who's Who and other recent threads, the SKs are highly mulitclassed with out a real heavy concentration as a straight Wizard or Psionicist- which is a requirement for good familiar progression.

So for them to have a familiar or psicrystal is actually a liability.

Thats my anyways.

That's not really true. A psicrystal gains in power dependant on levels in psionic classes. It is not a class feature, but a feat and would scale in power with levels in classes like Cerebramancer and Dragon as well as any other class that grants manifester levels.

On top of that many of a familiars abilities are dependant on things that are outside the purview of its wizard/sorcerer level chart. Hit points, saving throws, etc. are determined based on the master irreguardless of how they are obtained. Additional if you'll look at the improved familiar feat in the Complete warrior, you will see that having a high BAB can help you equally in gaining a powerful familiar as a high caster level can, plus caster level for the various improved familiar feats doesn't specify that that caster level must be in a class that grants the familiar class feature.

So really you're not losing out on much of anything as far as Psicrystals are concerned (only those levels that are taken in wizard or wizard PrCs only), and are only missing out on some of the abilities on the familiar chart, but not most of the features of familiars or the ability to gain more powerful creatures as familiars.
#14
seker
Dec 21, 2005 5:39:43 Actually all SK's have a special form of familiar...... they are called templars. Look at what the templars do for the SK's....... pretty much everything a familiar does plus a whole bunch. So why would they want lesser allies?
#15
Sysane
Dec 21, 2005 7:12:34 Here's an odd theory. What if in some crazy way Sacha and Wyan were a sort of familiar(s) to Kalak?
#16
ruhl-than_sage
Dec 21, 2005 7:23:57
Here's an odd theory. What if in some crazy way Sacha and Wyan were a sort of familiar(s) to Kalak?

LOL! I was thinking the same thing, but for Rajaat.
#17
zombiegleemax
Dec 21, 2005 14:15:37 I would think that the whole powering spells off of animal energy would kinda put animals off of bing familiars for a DS dragon... unless the familiar was immune to the aniaml drain effect of the dragons magic. beyod that issue what kinds of animals would be familiars the small animal department for DS is kinda low on stock. if you ported an animal would it have to be altered? how would it be altered?
#18
kalthandrix
Dec 21, 2005 14:38:11 Oooow, Oooow- I know the answer to this question!

You could use the great and ingenious Athasian Creature template that just happens to have been created by none other then the great and mighty Kalthandrix!
#19
zombiegleemax
Dec 22, 2005 11:42:41
Oooow, Oooow- I know the answer to this question!

You could use the great and ingenious Athasian Creature template that just happens to have been created by none other then the great and mighty Kalthandrix!

All hail the great and mighty Kalthandrix! umm yea...

LOL j/k
#20
Sysane
Dec 22, 2005 11:48:47 I actually got this idea from the Psionics board. What about using the Crysmal from XPH? Maybe not so much for dragon's but for hybrid arcane/manifester characters (i.e. cerebrmancer).
#21
Pennarin
Dec 22, 2005 15:18:59
I actually got this idea from the Psionics board. What about using the Crysmal from XPH? Maybe not so much for dragon's but for hybrid arcane/manifester characters (i.e. cerebrmancer).

IIRC the psionocus from ToA is a familiar that houses a psicrystal, so it serves both purposes.
Maybe a greater psionocus could be written and be put on the list for improved familiars.
#22
kalthandrix
Dec 22, 2005 15:30:21
IIRC the psionocus from ToA is a familiar that houses a psicrystal, so it serves both purposes.
Maybe a greater psionocus could be written and be put on the list for improved familiars.

OOOOOO- I like that idea. I would be more then willing to do a write up on a greater psionocus if no one has any objections.
#23
ruhl-than_sage
Dec 22, 2005 16:50:36 The improved Familiar feat that appears in the Complete Warrior has Winter Wolf Listed as a familiar that a Arcane caster can aquire with an Arcane Caster Level of 7th and a Base Attack bonus of +7. If the feat continues to scale up at this rate (The Winter Wolf is Large-Sized, with a challenge rating of 5) than I would assume that at Arcane Caster Level 20th and Base Attack bonus of +20 that you could have something like a Challenge Rating 15 familiar of gargantuan size! Like a Fire Drake for instance.
#24
kalthandrix
Dec 23, 2005 8:37:50 I was looking at the requirements needed to build a psionocus and I was a bit put off. Of the three powers, only one of them is in the open psion/wilder list- while the other two are only dscipline powers which means to make one you would need to take the craft construct feat and at least one expnaded knowledge feat, perhaps twice you are not a egoist or a kineticist. Ad the level requirement is 4th level too- not too high but it would be very rare to have all of the requirements at 4th level.

So my question is this- have the requirements to make a psionocus been looked at since the XPH came out?
#25
Kamelion
Jan 04, 2006 9:26:35
So my question is this- have the requirements to make a psionocus been looked at since the XPH came out?

This issue has ben raised as something to look at for the next version of ToA - I'll double-check to make sure that it gets addressed for the imminent release.
#26
kalthandrix
Jan 04, 2006 11:48:07
This issue has ben raised as something to look at for the next version of ToA - I'll double-check to make sure that it gets addressed for the imminent release.

Hey - If I got off my arse and whipped out a greater version of the psionocus, would it have time to get reviewed and maybe added to the next release of ToA?
#27
Kamelion
Jan 04, 2006 12:34:57
Hey - If I got off my arse and whipped out a greater version of the psionocus, would it have time to get reviewed and maybe added to the next release of ToA?

Yes, there would be time for that - thanks for the offer . I'll keep an eye out for a mail from you in a few days.
#28
kalthandrix
Jan 04, 2006 17:38:10
Yes, there would be time for that - thanks for the offer . I'll keep an eye out for a mail from you in a few days.

Cool - I will get cracking tonight then.
#29
kalthandrix
Jan 04, 2006 23:44:17 Hey Kam- FYI I sent you the word doc with the first draft of the greater psionocus. ( I have to say that I am personally amazed at my turn around time on this item).
#30
Kamelion
Jan 05, 2006 3:46:28
Hey Kam- FYI I sent you the word doc with the first draft of the greater psionocus. ( I have to say that I am personally amazed at my turn around time on this item).

Cool - I got it and replied. Cheers .

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ruhl-than_sage Dec 20, 2005 9:54:45	The question is simple. Do you think any of the SKs would have a familiar or psycrystal? If so, which ones and what kinds?
#2 Sysane Dec 20, 2005 10:11:26	If they did, I don't think they would be your average run-of-the-mill familiars or psycrystals. I'd think they would have something more long the lines of the blackguard's Fiendish Servant ability. They may even have a special hybrid of a familiar/psycrystal.
#3 ruhl-than_sage Dec 20, 2005 13:36:51	If they did, I don't think they would be your average run-of-the-mill familiars or psycrystals. I'd think they would have something more long the lines of the blackguard's Fiendish Servant ability. Considering that the familiar is a free class feature of any Wizard, I thought it odd that none of the SKs had one in any of the descriptions. Also, with their levels, Saving Throws, Hit Points (especially for those far along in their draconic transformation), etc the could have hellasious Improved Familiars. They may even have a special hybrid of a familiar/psycrystal. That sounds like a possible tie into the True Cerebramancer PrC
#4 Sysane Dec 20, 2005 14:22:40	In the Draconomicon it talks about dragon familiars. Perhaps some of those mechanics could be ported over to DS dragons.
#5 Pennarin Dec 20, 2005 14:54:30	In the Draconomicon it talks about dragon familiars. Perhaps some of those mechanics could be ported over to DS dragons. Not much DS-ish, IMHO.
#6 Sysane Dec 20, 2005 15:05:55	Not much DS-ish, IMHO. It more than likely could be tailored to be though.
#7 nytcrawlr Dec 20, 2005 15:13:19	Use drakes and such instead of dragons. Not too hard to change, heh.
#8 ruhl-than_sage Dec 20, 2005 20:18:45	In the Draconomicon it talks about dragon familiars. Perhaps some of those mechanics could be ported over to DS dragons. I think Rajaat had one of those :D
#9 kalthandrix Dec 20, 2005 20:20:53	The one problem with SK's hving a familiar ot psicrystal is the fact that, from what we have seen on the Who's Who and other recent threads, the SKs are highly mulitclassed with out a real heavy concentration as a straight Wizard or Psionicist- which is a requirement for good familiar progression. So for them to have a familiar or psicrystal is actually a liability. Thats my anyways.
#10 schizoidray Dec 20, 2005 21:16:22	My take on the familiar issue is that most of the SK's are far too detatched to attract such an intimate relationship to themselves that would ultimately prove to be a liability anyway. They are too paranid to accept such a bond. No matter how powerfull such a creature became, it would be simple for a rival to use them to their own advantage, not only through xp drain upon its death, but using it as a conduit for scrying or spellcraft to affect it's master.
#11 elonarc Dec 21, 2005 0:56:33	Of course, everyone knows about Nibenay's familiar. It's name is Dhojakt.
#12 Pennarin Dec 21, 2005 1:04:14	None of the SKs seem to demonstrate in the novels that they boast psicrystals (not that there were any in 2E) or familiars, although Nibenay did have a favorite son he sorcerously tempered with, and Hamanu had several weirdos he kept under his wing (seen in all three novels by Abbey).
#13 ruhl-than_sage Dec 21, 2005 1:41:01	The one problem with SK's hving a familiar ot psicrystal is the fact that, from what we have seen on the Who's Who and other recent threads, the SKs are highly mulitclassed with out a real heavy concentration as a straight Wizard or Psionicist- which is a requirement for good familiar progression. So for them to have a familiar or psicrystal is actually a liability. Thats my anyways. That's not really true. A psicrystal gains in power dependant on levels in psionic classes. It is not a class feature, but a feat and would scale in power with levels in classes like Cerebramancer and Dragon as well as any other class that grants manifester levels. On top of that many of a familiars abilities are dependant on things that are outside the purview of its wizard/sorcerer level chart. Hit points, saving throws, etc. are determined based on the master irreguardless of how they are obtained. Additional if you'll look at the improved familiar feat in the Complete warrior, you will see that having a high BAB can help you equally in gaining a powerful familiar as a high caster level can, plus caster level for the various improved familiar feats doesn't specify that that caster level must be in a class that grants the familiar class feature. So really you're not losing out on much of anything as far as Psicrystals are concerned (only those levels that are taken in wizard or wizard PrCs only), and are only missing out on some of the abilities on the familiar chart, but not most of the features of familiars or the ability to gain more powerful creatures as familiars.
#14 seker Dec 21, 2005 5:39:43	Actually all SK's have a special form of familiar...... they are called templars. Look at what the templars do for the SK's....... pretty much everything a familiar does plus a whole bunch. So why would they want lesser allies?
#15 Sysane Dec 21, 2005 7:12:34	Here's an odd theory. What if in some crazy way Sacha and Wyan were a sort of familiar(s) to Kalak?
#16 ruhl-than_sage Dec 21, 2005 7:23:57	Here's an odd theory. What if in some crazy way Sacha and Wyan were a sort of familiar(s) to Kalak? LOL! I was thinking the same thing, but for Rajaat.
#17 zombiegleemax Dec 21, 2005 14:15:37	I would think that the whole powering spells off of animal energy would kinda put animals off of bing familiars for a DS dragon... unless the familiar was immune to the aniaml drain effect of the dragons magic. beyod that issue what kinds of animals would be familiars the small animal department for DS is kinda low on stock. if you ported an animal would it have to be altered? how would it be altered?
#18 kalthandrix Dec 21, 2005 14:38:11	Oooow, Oooow- I know the answer to this question! You could use the great and ingenious Athasian Creature template that just happens to have been created by none other then the great and mighty Kalthandrix!
#19 zombiegleemax Dec 22, 2005 11:42:41	Oooow, Oooow- I know the answer to this question! You could use the great and ingenious Athasian Creature template that just happens to have been created by none other then the great and mighty Kalthandrix! All hail the great and mighty Kalthandrix! umm yea... LOL j/k
#20 Sysane Dec 22, 2005 11:48:47	I actually got this idea from the Psionics board. What about using the Crysmal from XPH? Maybe not so much for dragon's but for hybrid arcane/manifester characters (i.e. cerebrmancer).
#21 Pennarin Dec 22, 2005 15:18:59	I actually got this idea from the Psionics board. What about using the Crysmal from XPH? Maybe not so much for dragon's but for hybrid arcane/manifester characters (i.e. cerebrmancer). IIRC the psionocus from ToA is a familiar that houses a psicrystal, so it serves both purposes. Maybe a greater psionocus could be written and be put on the list for improved familiars.
#22 kalthandrix Dec 22, 2005 15:30:21	IIRC the psionocus from ToA is a familiar that houses a psicrystal, so it serves both purposes. Maybe a greater psionocus could be written and be put on the list for improved familiars. OOOOOO- I like that idea. I would be more then willing to do a write up on a greater psionocus if no one has any objections.
#23 ruhl-than_sage Dec 22, 2005 16:50:36	The improved Familiar feat that appears in the Complete Warrior has Winter Wolf Listed as a familiar that a Arcane caster can aquire with an Arcane Caster Level of 7th and a Base Attack bonus of +7. If the feat continues to scale up at this rate (The Winter Wolf is Large-Sized, with a challenge rating of 5) than I would assume that at Arcane Caster Level 20th and Base Attack bonus of +20 that you could have something like a Challenge Rating 15 familiar of gargantuan size! Like a Fire Drake for instance.
#24 kalthandrix Dec 23, 2005 8:37:50	I was looking at the requirements needed to build a psionocus and I was a bit put off. Of the three powers, only one of them is in the open psion/wilder list- while the other two are only dscipline powers which means to make one you would need to take the craft construct feat and at least one expnaded knowledge feat, perhaps twice you are not a egoist or a kineticist. Ad the level requirement is 4th level too- not too high but it would be very rare to have all of the requirements at 4th level. So my question is this- have the requirements to make a psionocus been looked at since the XPH came out?
#25 Kamelion Jan 04, 2006 9:26:35	So my question is this- have the requirements to make a psionocus been looked at since the XPH came out? This issue has ben raised as something to look at for the next version of ToA - I'll double-check to make sure that it gets addressed for the imminent release.
#26 kalthandrix Jan 04, 2006 11:48:07	This issue has ben raised as something to look at for the next version of ToA - I'll double-check to make sure that it gets addressed for the imminent release. Hey - If I got off my arse and whipped out a greater version of the psionocus, would it have time to get reviewed and maybe added to the next release of ToA?
#27 Kamelion Jan 04, 2006 12:34:57	Hey - If I got off my arse and whipped out a greater version of the psionocus, would it have time to get reviewed and maybe added to the next release of ToA? Yes, there would be time for that - thanks for the offer . I'll keep an eye out for a mail from you in a few days.
#28 kalthandrix Jan 04, 2006 17:38:10	Yes, there would be time for that - thanks for the offer . I'll keep an eye out for a mail from you in a few days. Cool - I will get cracking tonight then.
#29 kalthandrix Jan 04, 2006 23:44:17	Hey Kam- FYI I sent you the word doc with the first draft of the greater psionocus. ( I have to say that I am personally amazed at my turn around time on this item).
#30 Kamelion Jan 05, 2006 3:46:28	Hey Kam- FYI I sent you the word doc with the first draft of the greater psionocus. ( I have to say that I am personally amazed at my turn around time on this item). Cool - I got it and replied. Cheers .