Mind Mage from Dragon #313 - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Mind Mage from Dragon #313

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Dec 26, 2005 14:58:42 In its prerequesits it lists any 2 psi-spell feats. Does that mean you have to take 2 of the ones they have listed in the magazine there or does that mean that you have to have any 2 feats from the PHB or EPH that are considered spell and psi feats to match the criteria?

Really hoping it is the later than the former but I could see that being the one draw back of making that character.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any helpful responses
#2
zombiegleemax
Dec 26, 2005 16:08:15 no answers?

ok guess I will have to house rule it then.

going with the latter.
#3
Pennarin
Dec 26, 2005 19:08:34 You are on the Dark Sun boards, Cerberys, you should repost on the PrC boards or the Psionics boards.
#4
zombiegleemax
Dec 26, 2005 19:31:04 good call, just figures since it was one of the faster ways t oget tothe DS advanced beings that someone would know about the peticulars of this prc
#5
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Dec 27, 2005 11:03:10
good call, just figures since it was one of the faster ways t oget tothe DS advanced beings that someone would know about the peticulars of this prc

Never heard of the PrC. A good rule of thumb is to not assume everyone gets those magazines -- because from my experience, in the Dark Sun forum, it really isn't all that many who do actually get them. And the Paizo "Dim Sun" fiasco actually tended to make the numbers of people who regularly post here who get Dragon or Dungeon magazines, even less.
#6
nytcrawlr
Dec 27, 2005 11:16:14
And the Paizo "Dim Sun" fiasco actually tended to make the numbers of people who regularly post here who get Dragon or Dungeon magazines, even less.

That's pretty much why I am not renewing. Though I will miss the ecology stuff they were doing on every monster, and some of the old monster conversions.

Ah well, 3 more issues to go...
#7
milo_hobo
Dec 27, 2005 15:46:40 What is this "Dim Sun fiasco" you speak of?
#8
Zardnaar
Dec 27, 2005 16:21:54
What is this "Dim Sun fiasco" you speak of?

Dragon/Dugeon magazine had a crossover issue and had rules on Darksun 3.5. They advanced the timeline from the Prism Pentad by about 300 years. The rules were simplified probably due to space restraints. It seemed to me to return the setting to the 1st boxed set style- each city had a sorceror king (apart from Tyr). Dregoth took over Raam, Andropinis escaped from the black, Drajs ruler becomes a full fledged Sorceror King.

It did have some ideas worth mining for the setting though.

1. The Elan were created by the order.

2. Andropinis escaped (not a surprise really)

3. New Sorceror kings can be created. IMC this means an elemental vortice to a dead SK can be given to someone else via an epic spell.

A few other ideas were there as well. Overall to me it felt like a rush job but at least someone made the effort (this was before I found Athas.org) and I liked a few of the ideas at the time. Clerics for example picked an elemental domain from the players handbook and one other domain. Templars were like a PHB cleric and each Sorceror King had a list of domains. Overall I would regard it as DS lite. Its enough to play a simplified DS campaign set in the future. I do use the Dragon/Dungeon monsters though.
#9
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Dec 27, 2005 16:26:29
What is this "Dim Sun fiasco" you speak of?

A series of Dragon and Dungeon magazine articles that were made, and were supposed to "bring back" the "classic" campaign setting of Dark Sun, written by David Noonian. The first article was about Defilers, and was decent enough, with a wierd little thing about Defilers becoming T'liz that needs to be edited out a bit. The later "Player's Handbook" and "DMG" articles that were released, were.... well.... extraordinarily watered down. Paizo's editors chopped up Noonian's articles and threw in elements that don't belong in Dark Sun, with rules that were made to be more appealing to a wider player base, but effectively twisted and weakened the feel of Dark Sun considerably. While pushing to 300 years into the future, there are a number of things that are mentioned as being around in the world at that point, which simply doesn't make sense.

For a long while, I was calling it "Bizarro Dark Sun" -- because it really was.... bizarre. However, a friend of mine suggested the term "Dim Sun", and I kinda liked it.
#10
zombiegleemax
Dec 27, 2005 17:23:14 With regards to the Mind Mage prc, I would be very particular about what feats I allowed in substitution of the psi-spell feats in that article, they would need to be specifically designed to mix arcane and psionic abilities.

And I would agree about the class, not only is it very useful in a pre-AB build, it offers a range of abilities that are very much in-line with what I think an advanced being should be capable of.

As a stand alone prc though, it's probably overpowered, I would have encouraged the inclusion of many of it's abilities in the advanced being prc's instead and the exclusion of the class from the setting.
#11
zombiegleemax
Dec 28, 2005 1:14:49 After reading over the article more fully I realize that taking their feats is the basic drawback to the PrC and is very neccesary. If you want the PrC you cant have the feats that you may want for your caster/manifester.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Dec 26, 2005 14:58:42	In its prerequesits it lists any 2 psi-spell feats. Does that mean you have to take 2 of the ones they have listed in the magazine there or does that mean that you have to have any 2 feats from the PHB or EPH that are considered spell and psi feats to match the criteria? Really hoping it is the later than the former but I could see that being the one draw back of making that character. Anyway, thanks in advance for any helpful responses
#2 zombiegleemax Dec 26, 2005 16:08:15	no answers? ok guess I will have to house rule it then. going with the latter.
#3 Pennarin Dec 26, 2005 19:08:34	You are on the Dark Sun boards, Cerberys, you should repost on the PrC boards or the Psionics boards.
#4 zombiegleemax Dec 26, 2005 19:31:04	good call, just figures since it was one of the faster ways t oget tothe DS advanced beings that someone would know about the peticulars of this prc
#5 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Dec 27, 2005 11:03:10	good call, just figures since it was one of the faster ways t oget tothe DS advanced beings that someone would know about the peticulars of this prc Never heard of the PrC. A good rule of thumb is to not assume everyone gets those magazines -- because from my experience, in the Dark Sun forum, it really isn't all that many who do actually get them. And the Paizo "Dim Sun" fiasco actually tended to make the numbers of people who regularly post here who get Dragon or Dungeon magazines, even less.
#6 nytcrawlr Dec 27, 2005 11:16:14	And the Paizo "Dim Sun" fiasco actually tended to make the numbers of people who regularly post here who get Dragon or Dungeon magazines, even less. That's pretty much why I am not renewing. Though I will miss the ecology stuff they were doing on every monster, and some of the old monster conversions. Ah well, 3 more issues to go...
#7 milo_hobo Dec 27, 2005 15:46:40	What is this "Dim Sun fiasco" you speak of?
#8 Zardnaar Dec 27, 2005 16:21:54	What is this "Dim Sun fiasco" you speak of? Dragon/Dugeon magazine had a crossover issue and had rules on Darksun 3.5. They advanced the timeline from the Prism Pentad by about 300 years. The rules were simplified probably due to space restraints. It seemed to me to return the setting to the 1st boxed set style- each city had a sorceror king (apart from Tyr). Dregoth took over Raam, Andropinis escaped from the black, Drajs ruler becomes a full fledged Sorceror King. It did have some ideas worth mining for the setting though. 1. The Elan were created by the order. 2. Andropinis escaped (not a surprise really) 3. New Sorceror kings can be created. IMC this means an elemental vortice to a dead SK can be given to someone else via an epic spell. A few other ideas were there as well. Overall to me it felt like a rush job but at least someone made the effort (this was before I found Athas.org) and I liked a few of the ideas at the time. Clerics for example picked an elemental domain from the players handbook and one other domain. Templars were like a PHB cleric and each Sorceror King had a list of domains. Overall I would regard it as DS lite. Its enough to play a simplified DS campaign set in the future. I do use the Dragon/Dungeon monsters though.
#9 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Dec 27, 2005 16:26:29	What is this "Dim Sun fiasco" you speak of? A series of Dragon and Dungeon magazine articles that were made, and were supposed to "bring back" the "classic" campaign setting of Dark Sun, written by David Noonian. The first article was about Defilers, and was decent enough, with a wierd little thing about Defilers becoming T'liz that needs to be edited out a bit. The later "Player's Handbook" and "DMG" articles that were released, were.... well.... extraordinarily watered down. Paizo's editors chopped up Noonian's articles and threw in elements that don't belong in Dark Sun, with rules that were made to be more appealing to a wider player base, but effectively twisted and weakened the feel of Dark Sun considerably. While pushing to 300 years into the future, there are a number of things that are mentioned as being around in the world at that point, which simply doesn't make sense. For a long while, I was calling it "Bizarro Dark Sun" -- because it really was.... bizarre. However, a friend of mine suggested the term "Dim Sun", and I kinda liked it.
#10 zombiegleemax Dec 27, 2005 17:23:14	With regards to the Mind Mage prc, I would be very particular about what feats I allowed in substitution of the psi-spell feats in that article, they would need to be specifically designed to mix arcane and psionic abilities. And I would agree about the class, not only is it very useful in a pre-AB build, it offers a range of abilities that are very much in-line with what I think an advanced being should be capable of. As a stand alone prc though, it's probably overpowered, I would have encouraged the inclusion of many of it's abilities in the advanced being prc's instead and the exclusion of the class from the setting.
#11 zombiegleemax Dec 28, 2005 1:14:49	After reading over the article more fully I realize that taking their feats is the basic drawback to the PrC and is very neccesary. If you want the PrC you cant have the feats that you may want for your caster/manifester.