Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rhialto Dec 29, 2005 20:41:44	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8112529#post8112529 Virtual reality in javascript. My first project was a spelljammer ship, so I posted it in that forum. But I could just as easily do any location. I even have a program set up to do wilderness locations, so in theory I could map out Mystara. Would anyone be interested in this? Either making graphics, as an end user, or just suggesting priorities for my next target? That spelljammer ship took 2 lazy afternoons btw.
#2 johnbiles Dec 30, 2005 3:56:24	Pretty slick! I'd love to see a wilderness area done with this, maybe part of Karameikos.
#3 rhialto Dec 30, 2005 7:22:52	I have an engine for drawing wilderness too. The main thing limiting me right now is a serious lack of talent for making graphics (every single one of those you saw was derived from original or fan-art for the FRUA computer game), and lack of decisiveness at choosing the next target for this project. To start a new target, I basically need a map or floor plan, and a decent idea of what the wall/landscape art should look like. Mostly, my art library is sufficient to improvise something that looks close enough. Although I am lacking decent eye socket and tooth art for that skullship. Depending on how easy it is to adapt existing art, that can either delay things a few days or indefinitely.
#4 Hugin Dec 30, 2005 11:17:10	I'll second the wilderness area motion. I've always thought it would be cool to see a Mystaran map in 3D.
#5 rhialto Dec 30, 2005 18:12:31	Ok, pick a location for me. Actually, the wilderness one might take a bit more time, as the map editing tools I've got for editing that is considerably more primitive. The existing wilderness maps I have online were created by importing a data table directly rather than typing it in. Index page: http://www.lajzar.co.uk/virt/index.html Lords of Midnight (with location text): http://www.lajzar.co.uk/virt/out/lom1.html http://www.lajzar.co.uk/virt/out/lom2.html (alternate graphics set) http://www.lajzar.co.uk/virt/out/lom_jp.html (in Japanese) Doomdark's Revenge (no location text) http://www.lajzar.co.uk/virt/out/ddr.html That should give you a rough idea of what they will look like. One additional problem with converting D&D wilderness maps to this system is: - Hex maps would either require a complete code re-write, or some creative license to fudge them into a grid map. Converting 1 hex into a 2x2 square works. - I suspect most Mystara maps lack sufficient detail to be interesting at that scale. - I can do wide rivers that are one tile (ie about 4 miles across for 8 mile hexes) wide. Narrower rivers can't be drawn under this model. Wilderness graphics I know I lack: - massif (Atruaghin plateau and underground caverns) - lava lake (underground caverns) - fungus forest (underground caverns) - unfortified towns - jungle - pine forest - any variant of light forest or forested hill - swamp/marsh/bog/wetland - desert - badlands - cactus forest (light or heavy) - volcano - undersea anything The above lack of graphics will obviously limit choices greatly. So, suggestions on viable locations within the graphics I have, or volunteer artists? To confirm, I DO have art for the following: grasslands/plains (a default 'no graphic') low hills cave entrance high hills/broken lands mountains glaciers (but it doesn't really mesh well with the other artwork) forest (heavy, broadleaf) lake citadel fortress 'gate' (small keep set on low hills) keep ruins tower walled city village snowhall (a giant igloo) lith (celtic style standing stone) henge (think stonehenge) pyramid (egyptian style)
#6 eldersphinx Dec 30, 2005 20:51:13	(snippage) - Hex maps would either require a complete code re-write, or some creative license to fudge them into a grid map. Converting 1 hex into a 2x2 square works. - I suspect most Mystara maps lack sufficient detail to be interesting at that scale. - I can do wide rivers that are one tile (ie about 4 miles across for 8 mile hexes) wide. Narrower rivers can't be drawn under this model. Two questions: First, is it possible to fudge hexes into areas smaller than a 2x2 square? Could a 16x16 square, each square assumed to be half a mile across be used, frex? This would allow more detail (and display of rivers smaller than the Amazon! :D) without requiring code rewriting. Some creative designation of the space covered by a 'hex' might also be feasible - consider the following shape, each X representing a square area one mile on a side:
#7 rhialto Dec 30, 2005 21:08:57	Converting hexes to squares: Yes, larger scales are of course possible. 2x2 is the smallest that can be done. The next step up would be 4x4. Because keeping the 'hexes' tileable is an issue, and the resolution is getting higher, beyond that point the useful regular shapes get rather complex. There's also the slight issue that, given the amount of detail in most Mystara maps, increasing the resolution that high would either result in very dull maps, or very time consuming creative license. Thunder Rift: Looks interesting. The scale isn't actually too critical, but for aesthetic reasons this works best at about 2-5 miles on the edge per square tile, due to the horizon effect. The main issues with Thunder Rift is a) no swamp graphic, and b) no pre-existing grid on that map makes it a non-trivial map to produce. Spelljammer: Over in the other thread I just added another spelljamming ship, and changed a bit of code so the ladders now appear as part of the main image.
#8 rhialto Jan 06, 2006 2:31:39	Ok, I've started work on Karameikos for the outdoor VR thingy. The first step is to convert the map into a square grid. For this, I am taking Thorf7s excellent mapwork, and slowly putting it into grid format. I'm using a conversion scale of 1 8-mile-hex = 2x2 3-mile-squares. This is the lowest resolution I can do without making a mockery of compass directions. The main problem I have hit is that, at this scale, the map is just incredibly dull. You'll just see endless forests (or whatever) as far as the eye can see, broken by the very occassional village. A secondary problem is that, for the various places within the region, I don't really have enough information with me to know which graphics to use to best represent them. For example, which cities are walled, what is the usual architecture, what kind of ruins are Krakatos, how far are the rivers navigable, etc. So I'm looking for people to help me. For rivers, I need to know exactly how far up they are navigable to sea-going vessels. For places (cities, ruins, villages, keeps, etc), I need to know whether they are walled, typical architecture, whether a fort is just a keep or a complete castle, and so on. A few sentences of flavour text can also be attached to each location, including hyperlinks. Are there any additional places I can put on the map in order to make it more interesting? Similar information would be appreciated for those too (along with co-ordinates). I am using campaign cartographer to do the initial mockups for the maps. If anyone wants to help by editing it for added interestingness, I'd be much obliged. ijou desu.