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#1dirk00001Dec 29, 2005 21:40:07 | I've seen mention in several places here (and I think elsewhere) of Sadira's transformation into a Sun Wizard, and for whatever reason my mind keeps thinking that it was stated as if someone (athas.org or otherwise) has done a 3/3.5e write-up for it. Is this true, and if so, could someone point me in it's direction? |
#2SysaneDec 30, 2005 7:22:06 | That would be me. I came up with a template (with the help of the community) over a year ago. Its far from offical but this is what I/we came up with:Sun Wizard (Sun Touched) |
#3ruhl-than_sageDec 30, 2005 9:34:14 | Yah, it definately makes more sense as a template. The abilities were simply granted to her, she didn't learn how to preform them like a PrC. |
#4lyricDec 30, 2005 17:40:04 | Yah, it definately makes more sense as a template. The abilities were simply granted to her, she didn't learn how to preform them like a PrC. I know rise and fall of a dragon king isnt liked much on this board as being considered "non cannon" but that asside, you'll recall the account of Hamanu being transformed.. by the time he reached the bottom of the tower he was a master of magic, yet by the time he was writing his history, he had grown much in power and knowledge.. so how would you translate those? based off what you just said? some form of template and then a prc he gained later to develope his powers? |
#5ruhl-than_sageDec 30, 2005 20:24:41 | I know rise and fall of a dragon king isnt liked much on this board as being considered "non cannon" but that asside, you'll recall the account of Hamanu being transformed.. by the time he reached the bottom of the tower he was a master of magic, yet by the time he was writing his history, he had grown much in power and knowledge.. so how would you translate those? based off what you just said? some form of template and then a prc he gained later to develope his powers? You know, you probably on to something there! :D It would make sense for him to have a powerful template placed on him that grants tremendous amounts spellcasting power. Maybe he never needed to take any levels in Defiler, because it was all granted to him by Rajaat. So he's got umpteen levels in fighter as part of his build. The parameters of the template could include the unhaltable process of the Draconic Transformation described in that book too. So Hammanu is maybe Fighter 20/Pyschic Warrior 20/Dragon 4 and the template gants him Defiler Spells as a 20th level caster. |
#6zombiegleemaxDec 30, 2005 20:43:05 | why can't the champion of rajaat template have something similar to the sun magic ability? where the caster level is increased by 10 and all? for that matter, why ca't the champ template also have the same kind of spell resistance thing, with HD instead of a flat number? the sun wizard process was supposed to be like "champion lite" with the missing dark lens. the sun wizard template is really good in my opinion. the damage reduction is a bit overkill (maybe 15/epic instead?). but everything else is cool. but the champion template should be better. especially on the count of improving caster level for variables and penetrating SR, as well as basing the champ's SR on hit dice/levels instead of just being flat 32. |
#7xlorepdarkhelm_dupDec 30, 2005 20:51:18 | Umm.... because the Sun Wizard template isn't "official"? There's a lot of things that happen through the development process that Athas.org has to use, the least of which being balancing factors and sticking to the guidelines WotC gave on things. |
#8dirk00001Dec 30, 2005 23:14:49 | Awesome - I don't think I've ever seen a thread snowball this quickly before. Thanks for the reply Sysane. |
#9PennarinDec 31, 2005 2:01:35 | It would make sense for him to have a powerful template placed on him that grants tremendous amounts spellcasting power. This is blunt and hugly, but I'm thinking Hamanu was changed from human to an epic race, like the crimson from TotDL or the leshay from the ELH. Basically he becomes a humanoid-shaped monster, with lots of HD, and psionic and defiler levels equivalent to his monstrous HD. He also adds to that all the levels he independently gained through the ages, like fighter levels and arch defiler levels or the like. An extraordinary ability of his "race" is that the casting of spells and granting of templar spells causes the accumulation of "dragon points" which work like XP: when a specific amount is reached, the next step in dragon metamorphosis is reached. No components, epic spells, living beings, saves, or other elements are required for the change. |
#10ruhl-than_sageDec 31, 2005 12:15:10 | OK, I'll trust you guys to figure it out for the most part. I tend to think that all of Epic is ugly :P . If I want to play a game that reaches those heights of power I'll play exalted or some other system that was designed to handle that kind of power from the get go and doesn't require lucris numbers that are in excess of the sides on the die being rolled. Anyway it seemed simple and clean to me, rather than ugly. None of my players are ever going to advance beyond 20th level anyway so the systems I use for advanced beings don't have to be balanced or even make much sense within the rest of the system, they only have to work for their purposes within the actual game. |
#11lyricDec 31, 2005 12:18:34 | This is blunt and hugly, but I'm thinking Hamanu was changed from human to an epic race, like the crimson from TotDL or the leshay from the ELH. Basically he becomes a humanoid-shaped monster, with lots of HD, and psionic and defiler levels equivalent to his monstrous HD. He also adds to that all the levels he independently gained through the ages, like fighter levels and arch defiler levels or the like. An extraordinary ability of his "race" is that the casting of spells and granting of templar spells causes the accumulation of "dragon points" which work like XP: when a specific amount is reached, the next step in dragon metamorphosis is reached. No components, epic spells, living beings, saves, or other elements are required for the change. Well actually, that was the same thought that I had long long ago, that there were three types of dragon metamorphosis situations. #1 is what is available to PC's, the 10 stage epic spellcasting, granting the physical form and access to the PrC requiring lots of life energy and components etc... and therefore allowing a way to cheat the process if you can somehow absorb all the energy you need in one shot as kalak tried to do #2 is what Rajaat granted to other SK's, I have it that they 'may' not require a spell to transform, just lots of life energy, and hence could supercharge borys as they did, by funneling lots of energy into him. Also, they don't 'require' obsidian to cast epic level spells, but some epic level spells like the one borys uses to trap Rajaat do require the use of orbs. #3 is Hamannu, a unique situation, where, just as you said, he is like his own race. He transforms without the use of spells, by gaining experience (using magic / slaying others / granting spells / using the eyes of fire etc) and while he can be supercharged the way borys was, he tried to halt his transformation. He innately knew magic, like a sorceror, or like a dragon from other worlds. He innately knew psionics, like some monster types, and he did absorb all the memories/knowledge of Myron, the champion before him. (which could very well have been a one time use of an effect very similar to Dragon Lance's Bloodstone of Fistandantilus, making all of Myron's abilities a part of Hamannu). I see Hamannu as having the sun touched template, but with a greater version, and I see him as having also the ability to tap into shadow as well as light, for power. So the whole world around him was his to devour and shape. Light, Shadow, plant and animal. Maybe even the energy stored in undead (similar to a necromancer Prc accessing the gray). I see Hamannu as having every ability Rajaat could have tossed on him. Being that he was the last and ultimate champion. And seeing as how he was changed into a New Race.. he could easily have powers abilities and templates far beyond those of normal dragonkind. (But that's just my wanderings ;) ) Personally, I'd wonder what alterations Rajaat made to himself! if he added any templates to himself |
#12PennarinDec 31, 2005 15:40:52 | Personally, I'd wonder what alterations Rajaat made to himself! if he added any templates to himself In RaFoaDK, if Rajaat steps away from the exotic influence of the Pristine Tower, he turns into a pile of dust and bones. The tower sustains him, but also traps him in its vicinity. So I guess that's template #1. Later on, after his imprisonment, he forges himself a giant body of water, bones, and storm. Template #2. He also switches the seat of his soul from his life energy to his shadow, so as to foil the spell of the SKs. Template #3. There's also other stuff, more arcane and difficult to pin down, like Rajaat being incapable of dying, as discovered by the Champions in RaFoaDK. What that translates into is anybody's best guess. |
#13lyricJan 01, 2006 14:00:15 | In RaFoaDK, if Rajaat steps away from the exotic influence of the Pristine Tower, he turns into a pile of dust and bones. The tower sustains him, but also traps him in its vicinity. So I guess that's template #1. Rajaat's just freakin awesome isn't he ? :D |
#14jon_oracle_of_athasJan 02, 2006 9:07:09 | Personally, I'd wonder what alterations Rajaat made to himself! if he added any templates to himself None, he didn't want the LA slowing down his magic progress. :P |
#15lyricJan 02, 2006 14:47:03 | None, he didn't want the LA slowing down his magic progress. :P By the time he could have granted himself a template, do you really think it would have slowed him down all that much?? It's like saying there's a huge difference between a level 80 wizard and a level 85 wizard.. or saying there's a difference between casting 7 epic spells in one day, versus 5... once you get up to that point, it really doesn't make that much of a difference.. and a template that alters your fundamental class abilities might well be worth the 'delay'.. Edit : IMHO |