Greyhawk + eTools - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Greyhawk + eTools

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
theocratissak
Dec 31, 2005 16:39:11 Hi all -
I posted this to CF's Forums, but no reply's so either people aren't using eTools or enough people aren't reading them to impact my work.
I'm working on adding the feats from LGJ/Dungeon/Dragon's Greyhawk Feats I & II as well as some of the GH monsters from Dragon 339 into eTools for a dataset. I'm wondering if there are others out there that are working on GH things so that we could make a dataset.
Something like the GH Adventures 3.5 Spells re-write that someone posted here and I PDF'd and placed on CanonFire for download would be a niffty spell dataset that we could share and work on.
Be Well.
#2
Mortepierre
Jan 01, 2006 6:44:59 Well, I am using e-tool regularly, LGG data set included. It doesn't bring much apart from the local languages and deities (which need to be reviewed extensively for mistakes) but it was a start. I wish you luck on your endeavor and look forward to the end result.
#3
ajs
Jan 01, 2006 11:06:47
either people aren't using eTools or enough people aren't reading them to impact my work.

I've been using PCGen which works pretty well for what I need. CMP produces data sets for both tools, but I get the impression that right now, eTools is a bit better supported. That might change once PCGen 5.8.1 comes out, but for now the 5.8.0 support is a tad clunky in some places.

That said, raw SRD 3.5 support in PCGen 5.8.0 pretty darned complete. Have you used both? If so, what made you select eTools? I might consider using eTools if it's more stable for commercial datasets.
#4
theocratissak
Jan 02, 2006 1:21:28 Hi all -
I haven't used PCG since it's earliest days and it's illegal datasets.
I prefer eTools because it is better supported, has all the books (sure we're waiting on a few of them, but more or less it's pretty quick). I do think that its the same for PCG, but I don't know. Frostburn was/is the latest book dataset out.
They are planning on RPGToolKit to be released sometime before 2199. With that, I'm sure PCG will go by the way side, as will eTools. But the datasets for eTools will be exchangeable for new ones with RPGT. I'm hoping that in that same vein, any homemade sets will be convertable as well.
As for the LGG dataset, I do agree that it needs tweaking. It doesn't have the human races, and I mentioned and asked once on Greytalk if people thought that mixed races should be done. Something like Oerdian-Flan mix. I wasn't planning on giving any bonuses, but more for the variety and a truer Greyhawk feel, since many people are not pure Flan or Oerdian anymore. Few pure Suel, and that's two distinct differences between the Brotherhood and the Barbarians to the north. I was also thinking of making a nationality race, such as Keoish, Furyondish, Greyhawkian, etc. This may or may not have bonuses, like a Yeoman having a spear or shield prof.
As for the gods in LGG, I've made some changes, mostly to Pholtus and made his Church of the One True Path (LN) of the Theocracy of the Pale, and Church of the EbonGleam (LE) for the Grand Theocracy of Dimre.

Doing the GH Adventures 3.5 spellset would be very cool, but it's too much for just me to be able to do. I'd need some help. Same with the GH monsters from Dragon 339. I'm pretty good at its customization, and am active on their boards, but there again, I'd need some help. And we'd need to do half the work on each monster so that we double check each's work.

Well, let me know what you guys think.
Be Well.
#5
Ogrebear
Jan 05, 2006 9:40:56 I have an up to date E-Tools system inc the Greyhawk stuff, I am suprised to learn there might be mistakes in the files! I always thought E-Tools fairly reliable.

Any examples of broken/wrong data? Has there been any updates issued?
#6
Mortepierre
Jan 05, 2006 10:04:35
I have an up to date E-Tools system inc the Greyhawk stuff, I am suprised to learn there might be mistakes in the files! I always thought E-Tools fairly reliable.

Any examples of broken/wrong data? Has there been any updates issued?

E-Tool has never been broken but it does need constant errata. Why do you think they publish updates to most data sets once every month? Heck, they even have a special forum where users can come and post problems! (though, in all fairness, half of those turn out to be user's mistakes..)

Not to mention that official errata from WotC aren't included (yet) in these updates, so you have to "correct" data sets by yourself.

It doesn't surprise me as much as WotC sloppy editing though. After all, it's a lot of data to encode and they really are doing their best to fix all the data sets. It's just that, not being regular users themselves, they are less likely to spot problems than fans who use the software regularly.

Regarding the (converted to 3.5) LGG data set, the deities are fairly similar to the book itself, apart from some who are missing their favored weapon and one or two domains. No big deal as I already said. Since I am playing LG, I took one hour to update each deity's entry to make it similar to the (current) LG-deities pdf file and that was the end of it.

If you're using the GH deities from CD, you'll notice none of them have a favored weapon. Oh, it's in the text description but the weapon hasn't been selected in the appropriate pop-up window. Heck, Wastri doesn't even have it in his description!

Beyond that, you need to make up your mind about which version of deity X you wish to use. Zuoken and Tharizdun for instance (to name only two) have no less than 3 distinct entries each!
#7
theocratissak
Jan 05, 2006 17:26:12 Hi all -
In the latest dragon (339), they have the creature catalog, and I was just entering the Xvart and was gonna list god, but Raxivort aint in the LGG dataset.
There are some other deities that aren't listed, properly. For example, there is only one St. Cuthbert. In reality, there should be two. One for St. Cuthbert and another St. Cuthbert (LGG) since he's Greyhawk True in LGG vs the PHB version (with his stolen from Tritherion domain).
If you've done the LG gods and such into a dataset, mind passing it along to me? I've done some of my own homegame ones, such as feats, domains and such, and now am working on the ones from dragon - working on the creature collection and it's Greyhawk monsters. As I mention above, Xvarts .rac is almost done (another paragraph or two) and then I'm gonna make that warrior they have as an example as well. The GH Dragon will be a little tougher.
I'm also doing the Hexblade HEX curses - but I need help with knowing how to create a new Feat Type. I'm also doing the Imbued Staff from 338. I did the feats, but I can't figure out how to do the weapon itself. I was gonna make 10 staffs, since at lvls 1-2 you get a power, 3-4, 5-6, etc. And for the character he'd just take Staff lvl 1. If you take the feats to increase the staff, that would make it Staff lvl 1.1 and such. I'm on their boards asking for help.
Another thing that I havne't thought of until just now, is Complete Divine had a bunch of errata, and even better errata that wasn't erratised. It was discussed on a CD Errata board on EN World. I corrected the stuff in my book (using a differnt pen to show official vs unofficial yet better). Hmm, maybe that'll be next, but it's gonna be too bad when/if RPG Toolkit comes out, since it won't be able to convert homemade datasets.
#8
Mortepierre
Jan 06, 2006 2:48:21
In the latest dragon (339), they have the creature catalog, and I was just entering the Xvart and was gonna list god, but Raxivort aint in the LGG dataset.
There are some other deities that aren't listed, properly. For example, there is only one St. Cuthbert. In reality, there should be two. One for St. Cuthbert and another St. Cuthbert (LGG) since he's Greyhawk True in LGG vs the PHB version (with his stolen from Tritherion domain).
If you've done the LG gods and such into a dataset, mind passing it along to me?

Yes, Raxivort isn't in it. He isn't the only "forgotten" deity, not by a long shot (no Olman or Touv pantheon for instance). I haven't yet introduced him because I am slowly learning how to use E-Tool Helper so that whatever I change in the official data sets isn't lost (yet again) with their next update. I solved the problem of the PHB pseudo-GH deities by changing them too so that they are exactly as described in the LG Deities pdf. Still not 100% canon but will do for now.

I wouldn't mind sending you the changes but since they are encoded directly into my database mdb file, I can't. That's why I am learning to use E-Tool Helper!
#9
theocratissak
Jan 06, 2006 12:45:57 Hi all -
Yeah, eTH is a must. With etools you can use the house rules customization, enter a new god, magic item or whatever (items and such through the normal NEW button) and in eTH, you'll see a bunch of USER files. Those you can export into a dataset all your own. Like I've got some GHO datasets, and some of the files in the GHO dataset, I don't use in this current game set up. So for that DB, I delete those books, and files I don't want. Like I entered some Kingdoms of Kalamar feats, but don't want them in this database.
It's excellent for db's as well, because you can copy and clone a DB. So I've got a db with all the datasets. I then cloned that, and then added all the GHO files, and some from around the block (Dragon Mags (3.0 stuff), as well as some that I've gathered from around the other block. So I then have a 3rd game mode (3.0, 3.5 All WotC, 3.5 All WotC + GHO [includes the other stuff]). I then cloned that All WotC + GHO and edited it. So the 4th Game mode is All_Edited. So like those dragon mags' - I've removed the spells, and such. I removed all the 3.0 splat books (masters of the wild, sword and fist, etc), although they've been 3.5ified, I just don't want the duplication of feats and equip. I've also deleted much of the EQ from Stronghold builders guide and such, cause that's just too much to have to look through. Too many choices.

So editing the DB is just horrible. That's why eTH is there. You can create classes, and do other things. However, the only way you can create a new Racial Type (humanoid, goblinoid, New Racialoid), new Feat Type [Hex] from Dragon 339 and such is through the DB. And since I've not played with that aspect of things, I haven't been able to add stuff like that.
So you can use eTH to edit the gods that you want, even adding new ones. That's how I added Pholtus - Church of the One True Path (LN) and Pholtus - Church of the EbonGleam (LE).
Hmm, I'd like to see what you did to edit the DB itself. Each time I open it with Access 2003/XP, I get popups that say macros and such.
#10
Mortepierre
Jan 07, 2006 3:51:04
Hmm, I'd like to see what you did to edit the DB itself. Each time I open it with Access 2003/XP, I get popups that say macros and such.

Very interesting what you did!

To be clear, when I said what I had done was hard-coded into the .mdb file, I meant to say that all the changes I had made were done through the E-Tool software itself. Thus, they are saved directly into the data base.

That said, I've gone and modified the .mdb file directly too on occasions, using Access XP, and never had any popup problem. Hmm, methink your "macro security" setting is set too high.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 theocratissak Dec 31, 2005 16:39:11	Hi all - I posted this to CF's Forums, but no reply's so either people aren't using eTools or enough people aren't reading them to impact my work. I'm working on adding the feats from LGJ/Dungeon/Dragon's Greyhawk Feats I & II as well as some of the GH monsters from Dragon 339 into eTools for a dataset. I'm wondering if there are others out there that are working on GH things so that we could make a dataset. Something like the GH Adventures 3.5 Spells re-write that someone posted here and I PDF'd and placed on CanonFire for download would be a niffty spell dataset that we could share and work on. Be Well.
#2 Mortepierre Jan 01, 2006 6:44:59	Well, I am using e-tool regularly, LGG data set included. It doesn't bring much apart from the local languages and deities (which need to be reviewed extensively for mistakes) but it was a start. I wish you luck on your endeavor and look forward to the end result.
#3 ajs Jan 01, 2006 11:06:47	either people aren't using eTools or enough people aren't reading them to impact my work. I've been using PCGen which works pretty well for what I need. CMP produces data sets for both tools, but I get the impression that right now, eTools is a bit better supported. That might change once PCGen 5.8.1 comes out, but for now the 5.8.0 support is a tad clunky in some places. That said, raw SRD 3.5 support in PCGen 5.8.0 pretty darned complete. Have you used both? If so, what made you select eTools? I might consider using eTools if it's more stable for commercial datasets.
#4 theocratissak Jan 02, 2006 1:21:28	Hi all - I haven't used PCG since it's earliest days and it's illegal datasets. I prefer eTools because it is better supported, has all the books (sure we're waiting on a few of them, but more or less it's pretty quick). I do think that its the same for PCG, but I don't know. Frostburn was/is the latest book dataset out. They are planning on RPGToolKit to be released sometime before 2199. With that, I'm sure PCG will go by the way side, as will eTools. But the datasets for eTools will be exchangeable for new ones with RPGT. I'm hoping that in that same vein, any homemade sets will be convertable as well. As for the LGG dataset, I do agree that it needs tweaking. It doesn't have the human races, and I mentioned and asked once on Greytalk if people thought that mixed races should be done. Something like Oerdian-Flan mix. I wasn't planning on giving any bonuses, but more for the variety and a truer Greyhawk feel, since many people are not pure Flan or Oerdian anymore. Few pure Suel, and that's two distinct differences between the Brotherhood and the Barbarians to the north. I was also thinking of making a nationality race, such as Keoish, Furyondish, Greyhawkian, etc. This may or may not have bonuses, like a Yeoman having a spear or shield prof. As for the gods in LGG, I've made some changes, mostly to Pholtus and made his Church of the One True Path (LN) of the Theocracy of the Pale, and Church of the EbonGleam (LE) for the Grand Theocracy of Dimre. Doing the GH Adventures 3.5 spellset would be very cool, but it's too much for just me to be able to do. I'd need some help. Same with the GH monsters from Dragon 339. I'm pretty good at its customization, and am active on their boards, but there again, I'd need some help. And we'd need to do half the work on each monster so that we double check each's work. Well, let me know what you guys think. Be Well.
#5 Ogrebear Jan 05, 2006 9:40:56	I have an up to date E-Tools system inc the Greyhawk stuff, I am suprised to learn there might be mistakes in the files! I always thought E-Tools fairly reliable. Any examples of broken/wrong data? Has there been any updates issued?
#6 Mortepierre Jan 05, 2006 10:04:35	I have an up to date E-Tools system inc the Greyhawk stuff, I am suprised to learn there might be mistakes in the files! I always thought E-Tools fairly reliable. Any examples of broken/wrong data? Has there been any updates issued? E-Tool has never been broken but it does need constant errata. Why do you think they publish updates to most data sets once every month? Heck, they even have a special forum where users can come and post problems! (though, in all fairness, half of those turn out to be user's mistakes..) Not to mention that official errata from WotC aren't included (yet) in these updates, so you have to "correct" data sets by yourself. It doesn't surprise me as much as WotC sloppy editing though. After all, it's a lot of data to encode and they really are doing their best to fix all the data sets. It's just that, not being regular users themselves, they are less likely to spot problems than fans who use the software regularly. Regarding the (converted to 3.5) LGG data set, the deities are fairly similar to the book itself, apart from some who are missing their favored weapon and one or two domains. No big deal as I already said. Since I am playing LG, I took one hour to update each deity's entry to make it similar to the (current) LG-deities pdf file and that was the end of it. If you're using the GH deities from CD, you'll notice none of them have a favored weapon. Oh, it's in the text description but the weapon hasn't been selected in the appropriate pop-up window. Heck, Wastri doesn't even have it in his description! Beyond that, you need to make up your mind about which version of deity X you wish to use. Zuoken and Tharizdun for instance (to name only two) have no less than 3 distinct entries each!
#7 theocratissak Jan 05, 2006 17:26:12	Hi all - In the latest dragon (339), they have the creature catalog, and I was just entering the Xvart and was gonna list god, but Raxivort aint in the LGG dataset. There are some other deities that aren't listed, properly. For example, there is only one St. Cuthbert. In reality, there should be two. One for St. Cuthbert and another St. Cuthbert (LGG) since he's Greyhawk True in LGG vs the PHB version (with his stolen from Tritherion domain). If you've done the LG gods and such into a dataset, mind passing it along to me? I've done some of my own homegame ones, such as feats, domains and such, and now am working on the ones from dragon - working on the creature collection and it's Greyhawk monsters. As I mention above, Xvarts .rac is almost done (another paragraph or two) and then I'm gonna make that warrior they have as an example as well. The GH Dragon will be a little tougher. I'm also doing the Hexblade HEX curses - but I need help with knowing how to create a new Feat Type. I'm also doing the Imbued Staff from 338. I did the feats, but I can't figure out how to do the weapon itself. I was gonna make 10 staffs, since at lvls 1-2 you get a power, 3-4, 5-6, etc. And for the character he'd just take Staff lvl 1. If you take the feats to increase the staff, that would make it Staff lvl 1.1 and such. I'm on their boards asking for help. Another thing that I havne't thought of until just now, is Complete Divine had a bunch of errata, and even better errata that wasn't erratised. It was discussed on a CD Errata board on EN World. I corrected the stuff in my book (using a differnt pen to show official vs unofficial yet better). Hmm, maybe that'll be next, but it's gonna be too bad when/if RPG Toolkit comes out, since it won't be able to convert homemade datasets.
#8 Mortepierre Jan 06, 2006 2:48:21	In the latest dragon (339), they have the creature catalog, and I was just entering the Xvart and was gonna list god, but Raxivort aint in the LGG dataset. There are some other deities that aren't listed, properly. For example, there is only one St. Cuthbert. In reality, there should be two. One for St. Cuthbert and another St. Cuthbert (LGG) since he's Greyhawk True in LGG vs the PHB version (with his stolen from Tritherion domain). If you've done the LG gods and such into a dataset, mind passing it along to me? Yes, Raxivort isn't in it. He isn't the only "forgotten" deity, not by a long shot (no Olman or Touv pantheon for instance). I haven't yet introduced him because I am slowly learning how to use E-Tool Helper so that whatever I change in the official data sets isn't lost (yet again) with their next update. I solved the problem of the PHB pseudo-GH deities by changing them too so that they are exactly as described in the LG Deities pdf. Still not 100% canon but will do for now. I wouldn't mind sending you the changes but since they are encoded directly into my database mdb file, I can't. That's why I am learning to use E-Tool Helper!
#9 theocratissak Jan 06, 2006 12:45:57	Hi all - Yeah, eTH is a must. With etools you can use the house rules customization, enter a new god, magic item or whatever (items and such through the normal NEW button) and in eTH, you'll see a bunch of USER files. Those you can export into a dataset all your own. Like I've got some GHO datasets, and some of the files in the GHO dataset, I don't use in this current game set up. So for that DB, I delete those books, and files I don't want. Like I entered some Kingdoms of Kalamar feats, but don't want them in this database. It's excellent for db's as well, because you can copy and clone a DB. So I've got a db with all the datasets. I then cloned that, and then added all the GHO files, and some from around the block (Dragon Mags (3.0 stuff), as well as some that I've gathered from around the other block. So I then have a 3rd game mode (3.0, 3.5 All WotC, 3.5 All WotC + GHO [includes the other stuff]). I then cloned that All WotC + GHO and edited it. So the 4th Game mode is All_Edited. So like those dragon mags' - I've removed the spells, and such. I removed all the 3.0 splat books (masters of the wild, sword and fist, etc), although they've been 3.5ified, I just don't want the duplication of feats and equip. I've also deleted much of the EQ from Stronghold builders guide and such, cause that's just too much to have to look through. Too many choices. So editing the DB is just horrible. That's why eTH is there. You can create classes, and do other things. However, the only way you can create a new Racial Type (humanoid, goblinoid, New Racialoid), new Feat Type [Hex] from Dragon 339 and such is through the DB. And since I've not played with that aspect of things, I haven't been able to add stuff like that. So you can use eTH to edit the gods that you want, even adding new ones. That's how I added Pholtus - Church of the One True Path (LN) and Pholtus - Church of the EbonGleam (LE). Hmm, I'd like to see what you did to edit the DB itself. Each time I open it with Access 2003/XP, I get popups that say macros and such.
#10 Mortepierre Jan 07, 2006 3:51:04	Hmm, I'd like to see what you did to edit the DB itself. Each time I open it with Access 2003/XP, I get popups that say macros and such. Very interesting what you did! To be clear, when I said what I had done was hard-coded into the .mdb file, I meant to say that all the changes I had made were done through the E-Tool software itself. Thus, they are saved directly into the data base. That said, I've gone and modified the .mdb file directly too on occasions, using Access XP, and never had any popup problem. Hmm, methink your "macro security" setting is set too high.