1) everything seems much more balanced.
2) it's much easier to build on these rules to create plausible PCs, NPCs and monsters (i.e. I'm much happier with rules on Epic characters and Sorceror Kings stats than with the 2nd Ed.).
3.5 Ed rules on Clerics, Psionics, 0-level Arcane Spells, Prestige classes, the list goes on, are all brilliant!
That said, the basic concepts behind the setting and the story line is separate from the rules, and the info and ideas contained in the 2nd Ed books are timeless. It just seems to me that the rules now fit with the plot much better. I remember countless occassions where we as players could abuse the rules too easily. Not so any more it seems, or maybe I just haven't played enough 3.5 Ed!
Specifically, the AC's and to-it-rolls actually make sense now - it always felt backwards in 2e
There's more obviously... but if all you did was try a few quick games of 3.5e in a generic D&D world, I'm sure you'd like it./me runs
:bounce:
3.5 ed is such an improvement compared to 2nd. I would never go back to THAC0's and such. Luckily I am not a DM, so I don't need to convert all the monsters from 2nd to 3rd :P :D :D
[sarcasm]Hey neither did I - I just bought the MM books and downloaded the pdf from Athas.org.[/sarcasm] ;)
so how much am i going to have to spend to get all the necessary books, supplements, etc. so that i too can be one of the cool kids playing 3.5 ed.?
furthermore, what books do i need that are VITAL and what books would round out the library? obviously i need the core books - PH and DMG - how about the MM? Psionicists Handbook? your suggestions are more than welcome.
If you want physical books, get the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master Guide, Monster Manual and Expanded Psionics Handbook. That's all you need for your DS games along with athas.org materials.
The SRD can be found here (complete with psionic and epic sections), but its a bit harsh on the eyes, so a more visually-pleasing - and hypertexted, thank god! - version can be found here (sadly, without the psionic and epic sections).
For the athas.org material to download, go here.
Learning third edition rules seems like an unnecessary pain, since all of the material available (minus the Athas.org stuff) is second edition.
I have looked at the third edition stuff, and some of it looks okay (skills progression) while other stuff looks overly complicated (miniatures oriented combat system, attacks of opportunity, line of sight, etc.) In particular, I don't care to refit Dark Sun with classes that weren't there to begin with (like Paladins and Monks).
Right now I am wavering between running a second edition campaign (which I would know inside and out) or trying to incorporate new rules which I am not very motivated to do.
itf
I dunno. I just came back to D&D after about a ten year hiatus. Everything I know about D&D is second edition. All the materials I have about D&D is second edition.
Learning third edition rules seems like an unnecessary pain, since all of the material available (minus the Athas.org stuff) is second edition.
3rd edition is an easier and more elegant system. Most of that material is non-mechanical material anyway.
I have looked at the third edition stuff, and some of it looks okay (skills progression) while other stuff looks overly complicated (miniatures oriented combat system, attacks of opportunity, line of sight, etc.) In particular, I don't care to refit Dark Sun with classes that weren't there to begin with (like Paladins and Monks).
The combat system has become more complicated, but its not as hard as you might think. Though actual miniatures are nice bottle caps and coins work fine and it really makes combat more interesting and believable. The standard view is that monks and paladins don't belong in DS, no reason to include them.
You don't need to use all the rules if you don't want to. If you don't like the idea of Prestige Classes, or Attacks of Opportunity, etc. don't use them in your game.
Right now I am wavering between running a second edition campaign (which I would know inside and out) or trying to incorporate new rules which I am not very motivated to do.
itf
I personaly think that 3rd edition rules did nothing but improve the game. 2nd editon is needlessly complicated and had a sort of cobbled feal. The expirience system favors some classes over others and the skill system just falt out fails.
At the very least you should port the skill system over.
Brian Brian Brian....where have you been all this time? Too busy making art for us I would assume! :D
The SRD can be found here (complete with psionic and epic sections), but its a bit harsh on the eyes, so a more visually-pleasing - and hypertexted, thank god! - version can be found here (sadly, without the psionic and epic sections).
For the athas.org material to download, go here.
I use the Sovelior Sage SRD, which has all of the relevant sections, is frequently updated, and is downloadable as a hyperlinked document, so you can use it on your PC. It can be downloaded right here. This is the online version of the same.
The Hypertext d20 SRD is another great version of the same, and has the added benefit of including all the open material from Unearthed Arcana - a really useful site.
The combat system has become more complicated, but its not as hard as you might think.
The 2E combat system had a lot wonky optional rules, especially if you purchased the Options series, and material from different sources didn't always combine well. One of my 2E rules enigmas - how do you explain that a 1 is always a miss except if you're fighting unarmed?
Though actual miniatures are nice bottle caps and coins work fine and it really makes combat more interesting and believable.
Personally, we don't use miniatures (or substitutions) and a grid unless we're doing very important and dangerous battles. It works well 95% of the time, which is good enough for us.
I don't care to refit Dark Sun with classes that weren't there to begin with (like Paladins and Monks).
Paladins were in 2nd edition too, but you played using that rules set, so I fail to see the problem. Dark Sun 3.5 Core Rules exclude monks, paladins and sorcerers.
Seems fun, Kamelion, but how do you make the Sovelior Sage SRD work once you download it? Its just a jumble of files in a folder...
The files in the folder are all html pages. Simply open the one called "home.html" in your browser and go from there. (It actually doesn't really matter which page you open first, as they are all linked through a common menu bar, but the "home.html" is the front page of their SRD, as it were. Make sense?)
A) - how does one determine ability scores? what dice are used? what's the basic character generation guidelines?
B) - how is experience and level advancement calculated in 3.5? i can't seem to find the section on it.
C) - in determining DCs is it just something the DM arbitrarily assigns a value to based off of the situation? i'm assuming this is the case, but just wanted to clarify.
D) - if a natural roll of 20 is an automatic success, is it also an automatic critical hit? or is there another factor that determines whether the strike is a critical beyond the natural 20 roll? once determined, how is a critical hit calculated? is it double-damage? or some other system like a serious maiming, severing of a limb, etc.?
To get to your questions:
A) The standard rolling method is 4d6, drop the lowest. Generate 6 stats this way and arrange them in order of preference. This is all covered in the PHB. The DMG also has rules for creating characters using a point-buy system, so that all characters in the game will have stats of comparable power. This variant works on a scale, with higher point totals being available for games where more powerful characters are desired.
B) Very simply put, you need your current level x 1000 XP to advance to the next highest level. XP awards are calculated using a system of Challenge Ratings, which are indexed against character level as a way of measuring what a balanced challenge is for a character of any given level. The higher the Challenge Rating of the encounter, the more XP you accrue for overcoming it. You also get more XP for overcoming challenges that are of a higher level than you are, and less for overcoming challenges of a lower level than you are. The basic formula is that you get XP equal to Challenge Rating x 300 for overcoming a challenge of the same level as you, divided amongst all characters who participated in the challenge. It scales up and down from there, depending on how much variance there is between your level and that of the Challenge Rating, and there are also other considerations that will affect the precise XP award. This is all covered in the DMG.
C) Some DCs are determined by the DM, depending on his assessment of the situation. However, there are good guidelines on this in the books and I have rarely found myself having to wing DCs - there is usually a good example to follow. For spells, psionics, special abilities and the like, however, the DCs are all determined by the power of the creature generating the effect. Solid rules for this are given in all the relevant sections of the book and are easy to grasp.
D) A natural 20 is an automatic critical threat. A critical threat is a chance to inflict a critical hit. Once you have scored a critical threat, you immediately make a second attack roll using the same modifiers as the roll that scored the threat (often called a roll to confirm a critical). If this roll to confirm scores a hit, then you deal a critical hit. Note that the confirm roll doesn't need to score a natural 20 (or whatever the threat range is for the weapon), it just needs to hit the target's regular AC in order to turn the threat into an actual critical hit. Some weapons deal double damage on a critical, some deal as much as quadruple damage. There are no rules in the core books that incorporate maiming effects and the like, but variants exist here and there that provide systems for this. This is covered in the PHB, and is also in the SRD under the Equipment (weapons) and Actions in Combat sections.
Does this help? Make sense?
There is also level adjustments for various reasons, such as playing a monster character with more than 1 starting HD. Some of that can get complicated, but it's not too bad. I'm not the best one to explain it though :D
Level adjustments will affect how much XP is earned, among other things.
beat me to it
:D
Given that I am 56k dialup, it is a miracle!
Still, I did get a glimpse of your post - you mentioned a couple of things that I forgot, like Level Adjustments.
A Level Adjustment is basically a way of balancing powerful characters against weaker ones. For example, because a drow has all sorts of funky innate racial abilities, they have a +2 Level Adjustment. This means that they are treated as being 2 levels higher than normal for purposes of how much XP they need to advance a level (it also affects a couple of other things too, but that's not important right now). So, a drow 1st-level wizard is treated as being a 3rd level character, due to all his kewl drow powerz. This allows the DM to ensure that the party is balanced ("This game is for 5th-level characters, including those with Level Adjustments"). The example drow above would probably not be suited to a party of 1st-level characters, even though he is only a 1st-level wizard; his +2 level adjustment probably means that his player has to wait until the group is at 3rd level before he can join the party.
Upping the complexity of this example a bit, Level Adjustments also allow the DM to reverse-engineer a race and make a weaker version playable at lower levels. If we know that a 1st-level drow is the equivalent of a 3rd-level character, we can take the drow's racial abilities and split them over 2 "racial levels". Using this system, the example drow could join the party at 1st level, but wouldn't have all of his racial abilities. When he makes 2nd level, he gets the rest of his racial abilities. When he makes 3rd level, he can take his first level as a wizard.
This also highlights the main difference in the concept of levels between 3e and earlier editions. A human PC with no level adjustment who is a 5th-level wizard/3rd-level fighter is therefore an 8th-level character. His overall character level is 8 because he has 5 class levels in wizard and 3 class levels in fighter.
I am going to stop now, because my "Dude, you're rambling!" sensor is going off... ;)
I am going to stop now, because my "Dude, you're rambling!" sensor is going off... ;)
Funky...its not my rambling sensor that got off but my gaydar, wrong conncetions i guess...
/me runs :P
Funky...its not my rambling sensor that got off but my gaydar, wrong conncetions i guess...
/me runs :P
Well, they say it's better to give than to receive, but I'm open-minded about these things...
...
... Was that a little too much?
Sorry again. Now I must run and hide for a while. Don't disturb my rock please.
Sorry if that was too much, I'm not good at making jokes. No such comments on my part are serious, i.e. gaydar as a term comes from Seinfeld IIRC and poped into my mind when you mentionned the word sensor. Don't look further than this, no hidden meanings or suggestions.
Sorry again. Now I must run and hide for a while. Don't disturb my rock please.
No worries here. As far as I am concerned, it's all part of growing up and being British :D...
No worries here. As far as I am concerned, it's all part of growing up and being British :D...
Fausy, fausy, fausy.
Is it tea time yet? I want it in a genuine tea cup too, not one of those non-snobby coffee mugs. :P
Fausy, fausy, fausy.
Is it tea time yet? I want it in a genuine tea cup too, not one of those non-snobby coffee mugs. :P
In the British Empire, it is always tea time!
In the British Empire, it is always tea time!
I knew it!
:bounce:
who still plays darksun in 2e? As i read more and more into the system, i like little aspects of it more and more, where i have a new respect for the system before (when i was only a player). I would just like to know whom prefers 2e over 3.5 or whatever?
I prefer 2ed at this time. All of my campaigns are 2E, My brother and I are looking to combine 2e and 3.5 in some way. call it version 3.58 hahaa any way, I like 3.5 additions and Love 2e and want to combine the two for a gr8 gaming exprience. look forward to more input