So why not do it as a fan effort? Athas.org has a thriving 3.5 conversion; Planewalker.com has a similar effort for Planescape. The Kargatane kept Ravenloft running for years even before White Wolf bought the setting license. Spelljammer can potentially do the same thing.
A conversion effort isn't going to be straightforward, of course - there's going to need to be some consensus about what's being aimed for, and where the project's going. Accordingly, interested parties should post their ideas of what should be done and why it's important. I'll keep an eye out for these and collect them on a site index, that can hopefully be eventually used as a spec sheet for a core setting book.
To start things off, here are my thoughts, which I've already summarized on the index. (I can do this; I'm the guy with the Edit button to the index. :p This doesn't mean that I'll ignore anyone else's contributions, though, or demand that my thoughts be accepted if the rest of the community disagrees. That would be silly.)
Proposed core story, working off the same notion that Ryan Dancey and Mike Mearls have advanced for D&D:
Spelljammer is a game of exploring the unknown. Characters find unexpected challenges and unimaginable rewards in the depths of unexplored space and the surfaces of alien worlds. Weird creatures that have never before been seen by man, spells and magic unlike anything known to be possible, and the treasures of indescribable civilizations are all waiting to be discovered.
Other potentially useful and important points to keep in mind:
1. Spelljamming and space travel affect every adventure the PCs have. Space travel should never just be side flavor, or a way to convey characters to a dungeon that happens to be on another planet. Spelljamming will always, in some form, have a major impact on an adventure. This could take the part of a battle aboard ship, an NPC or item that's inherently linked to space, or adventure backstory that's strongly tied up in spelljamming. But the influence will always be there, in the same way that it's impossible to imagine a standard game of D&D without magic.
2. Spelljamming will have a major impact on every world, everywhere it's found. One of the main problems with 2E Spelljammer was its attempt to link together other 2E campaign settings - and then fail to explain why it had so little impact on the other settings' storylines. (Out of game, the reason was obvious - Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance had to stand on their own, and not adopt a lot of Spelljammer stuff that non-SJ players would'nt grok. In-game, though, there was absolutely no excuse for why spelljamming ships hadn't revolutionized trade, or warfare, or even cartography.) A 3E Spelljammer setting doesn't take this cop-out - the fact that space travel is possible has a real impact, thought out beforehand, on every planet and civilization that gets introduced.
3. The setting will have a map, a timeline, and iconic NPCs and locations. Coherency in 2E Spelljammer was badly hampered by a lack of overall design direction. The setting was strong on mechanical bits and keen new stuff, but much weaker on fitting disparate pieces together or identifying key material for reuse. The result was huge amounts of waste - ship designs, monsters, and entire spheres introduced for a single module, then never used again - and a player base that in many cases couldn't figure out how to make things fit together. SJ 3E will try to avoid this problem by sketching in basic boundaries for 'Known Space' ahead of time. Reusing existing material or filling in the unexplored corners of existing areas will be preferred over creating new places out of whole cloth. 'Known Space' won't necessarily be that big, or that well detailed - the core idea emphasizes mystery and exploration, after all - but the new stuff will at least be linked to something known to exist. (Think of it as a signpost.)
4. Even the weird stuff in the Spelljammer setting will be self-consistent and able to command respect. One of Spelljammer's big initial themes was weirdness - oddly shaped ships, absurd creatures and aliens, strange and bizarre worlds. This is fine, up to a point, but 'weird' quickly became 'silly', and silly generally isn't fine. D&D is fantasy adventure, after all, not slapstick comedy. SJ 3E draws a line by demanding that even the weird stuff be able to take itself seriously, even if humans don't quite manage it. Tinker gnomes are a good example - they create crazy Rube Goldberg devices, but sometimes those devices work, and send a 20d6 fireball straight towards your face. Laugh at them at your own potential peril.
5. Playability and fun are key. Old cows are not sacred if they make the game less fun. Or in short, don't assume that cruft mechanics and setting flaws will be kept just in order to make the game 'Spelljammer'. Helms, for instance, may be due for a redesign - a lot of players complain about how they take away all of a helmsman's spells, making that character useless anywhere else. A less extreme mechanic may be in order here. The goal of 3E Spelljammer is to make a fun, interesting, and innovative setting to adventure in. Keeping old-school flavor is secondary to this.
The above ideas establish where I'd like to see a Spelljammer 3.5 setting go. Anyone have opinions on these, or points of their own to add?
There's been a fair amount of discussion recently on a 3.5E version of Spelljammer. A lot of people seem to support the idea, but it doesn't seem likely that anyone will ever try to resurrect the setting in order to sell books off it. Too weird and innovative, too long without active support, too much of a risk to run a business on.
So why not do it as a fan effort? Athas.org has a thriving 3.5 conversion; Planewalker.com has a similar effort for Planescape. The Kargatane kept Ravenloft running for years even before White Wolf bought the setting license. Spelljammer can potentially do the same thing.
Just be aware that things are being worked on for SJ3.5e, if progress is slow. The index is at:
http://spelljammer.org/sj3e/
We're getting sections done as quickly as possible, but we're always looking for help ("we" is a very small group...much, much smaller than the athas or planescape teams).
The best way to handle the pre-existing campaign worlds (Oerth, Faerun, Krynn et alii) is to say that they are in crystal spheres that haven't yet had meaningful contact.
I think for Spelljammer 3E, we should create some kind of universe with a real background. I'm kind of sold on the idea of something vaguely along the lines of the Star Trek universe, but with a magical focus instead of technology. Dark Elves instead of Romulans, Orcs instead of Klingons, etc. Obviously the empires would have to be a lot smaller in order to explain how they enemy races can still meaningfully interact in core areas of each star empire.
This is of course a very different universe from 2E, where each nation was at best covering the area of a small continent. The Elves were about the only group that had a meaningful presence in multiple spheres, another aspect which strained my credulity.
The problem that the future of Spelljammer faces, however, is that it really needs more than a conversion--it needs a transformation. (Think of the differences between the 1E Manual of the Planes and the 2E Planescape setting.) And it needs an expansion--not in geography, but in imagination.
It's true, the Spelljammer campaign did some interesting things with the beholders, neogi and illithid, but for my personal taste, too much of it relied on standard D&D flavor like goblins, minotaurs, lizard men and ogres. (Centaurs in space? Well, okay, but you're not really challenging your creativity much there.)
Once again, think of the Planescape setting, which TSR designed with the lessons it had learned from Spelljammer--in Planescape, you don't primarily encounter planeswalking kobolds and gnolls; you primarily encounter demons, devas, walking triangles and guys who speak in rebuses. I'm not saying that a Spelljammer setting should focus exclusively on the exotic, but a good one should have its own sense of mind-blowing personality, not just a star-painted overlay on a standard D&D setting with a bit of weirdness thrown in.
Consider that, unlike most campaigns, Spelljammer has more than just a continent to draw upon but an entire universe, and the possibilities for creativity become incredibly appealing. Spaceborne action settings like Star Trek have been forced to rely on humanoid creatures with rubber heads, mostly because they need actual actors portraying the aliens, but in an RPG there's really nothing limiting the design.
Or, put another way, on a standard D&D world, the main cultures are races like humans, halflings, dwarves and elves--and so that's what the PC races are. (True, there are orcs as well, so then you have a PC race like the half-orc.) But if the main cultures in Spelljammer include the Illithid and the Beholders, then why aren't there mind flayer and beholder-kin PCs? Why aren't there player-character Arcane? Reigar? And so on.
I'm not saying that in all cases, this would work--and in some cases it most certainly wouldn't--but it's the type of thinking that needs to be in mind when considering a new approach.
I also think that the five points outlined by Eldersphinx are really excellent design parameters. To them, I would also add one more:
6. Don't be afraid to borrow directly from another campaign setting if it's a good concept.
Character skills started out in the exclusive province of 1E Oriental Adventures (when they had the very artful name of "nonweapon proficiencies"), but the idea made so much sense that before long they were part of mainstream D&D. Lolth began as a Greyhawk goddess, but the Realms designers took the idea and ran. Even something like our beloved Neogi just appeared as part of the mainstream D&D canon, in the Lords of Madness book. (Okay, I won't mention Krynn's much-maligned tinker gnomes trawling wildspace in a wreckship, but you get the idea.)
Should we have non-Eberron warforged PCs as part of the Spelljammer universe? Should the disbanded factions of Sigil make their way to the Crystal Spheres, after being banished by the Lady of Pain? Birthright-style scion characters, who gained traces of divine abilities from an exploded star? Again, not every idea will work, but it's the kind of thinking that needs to be applied.
...All just my two copper pieces, spend them as you will.
Pax,
KRad
Or, put another way, on a standard D&D world, the main cultures are races like humans, halflings, dwarves and elves--and so that's what the PC races are. (True, there are orcs as well, so then you have a PC race like the half-orc.) But if the main cultures in Spelljammer include the Illithid and the Beholders, then why aren't there mind flayer and beholder-kin PCs? Why aren't there player-character Arcane? Reigar? And so on.
Uh-uh. Nope. Elves, dwarves, etc are the main RACES, not CULTURES. Furyondy and Blackmoor and Thyatis and are all human in race, but the culture in each is very different.
I'd be very leery of including wierd and wonderful new races. Sure, the setting more than allows for it, but unless there is something unique in the biology of the species that requires it, they are just men in rubber suits, same as all the Star Trek aliens. And adding unfamiliar races in the spelljammer setting runs a big risk of turning it into a more SF flavour setting than fantasy.
The neogi are one such example. Replace them with a human slaver civilization that is particularly guarded about letting strangers visit their planets, and who would know the difference? not me anyway.
I'd far rather have creative design effort put into giving a culture for the aliens to come from, instead of designing a new rubber suit for the latest NPC to wear. For me, having the traditional fantasy races present is a key part of the fantasy aspect that distinguishes it from science fiction.
1) Small correction, Beyond the Moons isn't "nightdruid's site", it's Static's site. I just contribute
Static sometimes posts here as Kiirl. 2) Setting. One thing I've been working at is to give SJ its own distinct setting. I've got the outline of such a setting going, borrowing something from a friend of mine, taking his setting and expanding & modifying it to be more "production ready". Also, it won't be "all of spelljammer"; there are so many spheres out there, official and fan, that any attempt to map them all would create a huge, somewhat unwieldy setting. My preference is to go with a core set of linked spheres, about a dozen in all, and concentrate on them rather than get too spread out. Oh, and all of those spheres will definately be impacted in a big way by SJ. I even have a working timeline to boot
3) Races. Races are always tricky; when you start going outside of funny-looking humans, it gets a bit hard to balance them. Especially things like illithids & beholders...I can imagine they rank up there in LA +10 range. I do have a couple of ideas for new races, but I'm not sure we want to get that involved in new races until other projects are completed.
4) Iconic NPCs. LOL...want to know something hilarious? I just made this very same suggestion to Static the other day! I think our big limitation here is we'd need to develop good iconic concepts, and also have good artists to make 'em nice and pretty. Stick figure iconics would look a little silly (ok, neither me nor static are that bad of artists, but Lockwoods we are not!
Anyways, enough from me for now. I'll add some more later
Uh-uh. Nope. Elves, dwarves, etc are the main RACES, not CULTURES. Furyondy and Blackmoor and Thyatis and are all human in race, but the culture in each is very different.
Uh...well, okay, but I don't think you're really getting the point. The Player's Handbook doesn't have you choose a culture, it has you choose a race. If the dominant races in Spelljammer are different than the dominant races in a standard D&D setting, then why (as a matter for debate) are we still only talking primarily about the groundling races for PC classes?
And, for that matter, if you're talking about cultures, then I think you're accidentally making the point for me: Furyondy and Thyatis, for example, are dominant cultures in their campaigns; and--presto!--you get to play PCs from Furyondy and Thyatis.
Again, as I mentioned, not every idea will work, and many definitely won't; but it's the kind of thinking that needs to be applied, IMHO.
I'd be very leery of including wierd and wonderful new races. Sure, the setting more than allows for it, but unless there is something unique in the biology of the species that requires it, they are just men in rubber suits, same as all the Star Trek aliens. And adding unfamiliar races in the spelljammer setting runs a big risk of turning it into a more SF flavour setting than fantasy.
Well, let's be clear here: I'm not talking about inventing new races, but taking a new look at the ones that are already part of the game. I also understand exactly where you're coming from when you say you're "leery" about some of the possibilities; and I'd be too.
If you asked me 20 years ago, I would have said I'd be leery of a campaign where the gods came down to walk the planet, where PCs got to eventually turn into deities, where all the characters were royalty, or dragons, or where everybody, even a peasant, was psionic. And yet, those are all key elements of the Realms, Mystara, Birthright, Council of Wyrms and Dark Sun campaigns.
Heck, I would have been leery about the PCs getting on giant flying snail, and taking off for outer space to run around with gun-toting walking hippos. And yet...
The neogi are one such example. Replace them with a human slaver civilization that is particularly guarded about letting strangers visit their planets, and who would know the difference?
Hmm. Probably the slaves who didn't get eaten alive for dinner, but that's just a guess.
Pax,
KRad
So, picture a small cluster of crystal spheres... each one independantly evolved a distinct race. For [mumble] reasons, the various races explored nearby spheres before they finished getting full control of their own.
Humans, halflings, and elves quickly discovered each other and formed an alliance. Later, this alliance would discover a single crstal sphere dominated by dwarves, and heqavily fortified up the wazoo. Turns out that a couple hundred years earlier, the entire sphere was colonised by them, fleeing from a distant alien threat. the dwarves pushed out a few orc colonies that were newly established. The expanding humans and orcs meanwhile met each other and war followed due to the orcs love of enslavement.
Later, the humans met the dwarves, and the orcs were forced into an uneasy ceasefire, the humans and elves having been weakened by the long war and unable to bring the war to a strong conclusion.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the phlogiston, human-elf scouts discovered the dark elves, a secretive offshoot of the elves, or is it the other way round? The elves clearly had spelljammers long before anyone else, but no elf is saying anything. What is the elves' great secret, and why didn't they dominate before/continue to dominate? And what are the mysterious ruins on the orc homeworld that hint at a far more ancient civilization than their own? And what were the dwarves fleeing from, and when are they expected to arrive?
There. just the basic fantasy races, but a reasonably developed back story with lots of trailing plots. We don't need to have weird races, we just need a good backstory. This universe postulates the following:
3-5 orc spheres, including 1 homeworld and the rest partly explored, possibly with other humanoid races present
3 home spheres for each of human, elf, and halfling, with 3(?) more loosely colonised and very frontier-ish.
1 dwarf sphere, fortified like nothing else.
1 or more dark elf spheres, exact number very unknown
I have huge amount of faith in Night Druid's work, I have used a vast amount of his conversion/development stuff in my own campaigns for several years running.
I will happily devote as much time as I can manage to bringing this to fruition. I also think that sidebars (at the least) should be devloped for using SJ in conjunction with new products. I saw a site somewhere that fuses SJ with Ghostwalk, those sort of DM's options should be a part of it IMHO.
There are an inifinte amount of Spheres, giving you as much versatility as the Planar Array of Planescape. Lets use it!
Loki, glad to be home and ranting from the rubble!
http://www.spelljammer.org
http://www.planewalker.com
http://planejammer.blogspot.com