[QUOTE: Havard]Mystara has lots of things that set it apart from other settings, but these elements are a bit harder to define, and even fans dont seem to agree what elements define Mystara.[/quote]
I'm curious to know your opinion about what makes Mystara so unique.
Also, it is the only campaign world which evolved naturally as the game developed. All others were written as a whole from the start.
Third, is it's chaotic mix of realism and randomness. Most of the people I've played with, regardless of the setting, base their character concept on real-world history... One example, from a game I ran, is the player liked both r/w Celtic and Eastern cultures. What he wanted, was a Scottish Siao-lin (sp?) monk... Nowhere, in any other campaign world, would that fit into the world-theme... In Mystara, it works. The solution was a Hinterlander who was trained in a monastary ran by Ochleans.
One of the criticism's which non-fans clain is the lack of realism... Persian desert nomads right next to viking raiders... I think this is Mystara's strength--because you have that ability, and diversity. And it's not really that far off from r/w history... Think Mongol raiders, settling in Turkey, a stone's throw away from the most enlightened Greek cities of the time.
And as an added benifit are the Immortals... where ascention to deity is a verified, obtainable goal. In all others, a god is a god, and a man is a man... Not so with Mystara. Even then, in other campaigns, the gods really are only Immortals in disguise. How many "gods" in FR died and were replaced by mortals? The Time of Troubles series is the most Mystaran storyline FR ever produced. Same in DL? At the end of Dragons of Summer Flame, the overlord was captured in a prison, the gods were banished--THEY'RE GODS FOR VERTHANDI'S SAKE!!!--and the champions: Raistlin, Sturm, Tass, and Flint are all waiting around a tree somewhere in the planes, watching Krynn from afar. They had become Immortals... (Unfortunately, Fifth Age screwed that all up, but it would have been the best idea since DL started.)
IMO, gods are just Immortals who hide the fact that deity is obtainable from their worshippers, because of some personal conflict issues. But that's just me.
There's jsut so many things that make Mystara better than any other published campaign, that I cannot explain them all... What I've written here is only a scratch on the surface of all the awesomeness that is Mystara.
1. Variety - Any style and any flavour of game can be run in Mystara. You name it, you can play it! It isn't single-minded in this respect.
2. Flexibility - You can change the style or flavour of a campiagn without having to change campaigns. All you have to do is travel. (I call it Conanesque style - changing 'careers' and 'enviroments' throughout the character's life)
3. Base Familiarity - Since the nations are based on real world cultures it is easier for the entire group to have the same mental picture of that nation. Play can emphasis certain aspects or twists on that culture, but at least most everyone starts with the same ideas and understanding.
4. Rich History - I LOVE Mystara's history, contradictions and all! Although it may be piece-mail, it gives alot of background support for the present and things to discover. (I have never yet done this, but I'd love to have campaigns placed at various points in Mystara's history: Think how cool it would be to run PCs through times like Glantri's founding, Traladara's battle with the Beastmen, the first Great War between Alphatia and Thyatis in BC 2, the Silver Purge in Minrothad... I could go on forever!)
5. Immortals - Of course! One for everthing imaginable (almost :D ). Not squashing everyone... but neither do they not get 'involved'. Also, there's the many 'co-operative' relations of the Immortals as they work together (and secretly against) members within various pantheons. It's just as complexe as real world politics!
6. Good? Evil? - This isn't clear-cut, black and white, there-it-is defined! It exists, but often 'evil' is just the 'other side'. This creates a need for more motives and complexities than 'destroying the evil [insert noun here]'. The elements are there to use, but allows for the possibility that what you thought was 'evil', just isn't the case... now what?
7. The community - This probably doesn't count, but I include it nonetheless... :D
I recently had the Master of the Desert Nomads, an evil alignment, host the PCs for a couple of days in Greatrealm. He was trying to convince them that he only invaded Karameikos because Duke Steven has been replaced by a doppelganger and it has unstablized the region. Trade is suffering thus hurting Hule.....but the invasion went badly and the doppelganger escaped. He wanted the PCs to go kill the Doppel-Duke. (The pcs finally decided to not believe him.)
Also, npcs are more nationalistic. If Karameikos is invaded, all Karameikians would take up the sword in fight the enemy. In the case above, it's the Desert Nomads.
Finally, since I don't use the Savage Coast area, I replaced Sind with Hule and placed Greatrealm in Sayr Ulan. Works just fine.
--Ray.
I'd also mention the touches of humor that are found throughout the setting -- mostly in Bruce Heard's work.
Matter, Energy, Thought, Time, and Entropy.
LOL!! :D
You should also say that they are all in perfect equilibrium.
I would also add the fact that Mystaran NPCs are really less important than PCs, which I think is a very important characteristic for a setting.
You can feel it everytime you run a campaign on Mystara.
If your PCs try to go and challenge Drizzt, or Elminster, or Tanis (or even evil characters, such as Kitiara or Entreri), you feel there is something wrong, you know that this shouldn't happen. It's someting similar to a profanation, or anyway a spoilage of a carefully designed setting.
Instead, it really less problematic to face Eriadna, or Thincol, (or Bargle, or Thar). If you succeed in defeating them, really, who cares? You know that they are simply powerful rulers; they weren't the first to occupy their position, nor they will be the last.
They are not unique (or necessary) charachters, and someday they will be substituted anyway by someone else.
What about Nation above Alignment. OCs use the alignments in a more B&W manner whereas in Mystara, the shades of gray can come into play and it won't really screw things up.
I recently had the Master of the Desert Nomads, an evil alignment, host the PCs for a couple of days in Greatrealm. He was trying to convince them that he only invaded Karameikos because Duke Steven has been replaced by a doppelganger and it has unstablized the region. Trade is suffering thus hurting Hule.....but the invasion went badly and the doppelganger escaped. He wanted the PCs to go kill the Doppel-Duke. (The pcs finally decided to not believe him.)
Also, npcs are more nationalistic. If Karameikos is invaded, all Karameikians would take up the sword in fight the enemy. In the case above, it's the Desert Nomads.
Finally, since I don't use the Savage Coast area, I replaced Sind with Hule and placed Greatrealm in Sayr Ulan. Works just fine.
--Ray.
I think you are onto something here Ray. Although Mystara has many features that set it apart from other settings (Spheres, Immortals, Hollow Planet etc), many of these rarely have much effect on actual play. The thing that does affect play is the role played by the nations that are easy to distinguish between and have a great impact on character concepts. And as you say, there is rarely a connection between an alignment and a nation. I'm guessing that if Gazetteers had been made for Hule and Denagoth, they too would have revealed some redeeming qualities about these nations, even though their rulers are clearly evil.
I agree with Agathokles about the humorous tone set by Bruce, but Mystara clearly also has a darker side to it, one that I feel was not conveyed sufficiently in the AD&D line.
Håvard
For me the main one is the depth of history - Mystara has evolved over many years - both in game time and in the real world. Over the years so many great writers have contributed to the texture of the world, you feel that whatever you might be looking for is there to be found somewhere in the world. But the breadth of content was never at the cost of depth.
Pirates, vikings, knights both arabian and medieval, are all there to be discovered. The only major theme they never got around to was ninjas and samurai, but you know that somewhere just off the explored map there is an island just like Japan should you wish your players to find it....
The pivotal product for me was Wrath of the Immortals. Up until then the diverse kingdoms were kind of frozen in time, but Wrath set them moving and gave us a world that really lived and evolved.
Mystara is a world with both 'solidity' and endless possiblity combined - a property few other game worlds can claim.
Pirates, vikings, knights both arabian and medieval, are all there to be discovered. The only major theme they never got around to was ninjas and samurai, but you know that somewhere just off the explored map there is an island just like Japan should you wish your players to find it....
Actually, there's an invisible moon full of Rakasta samurai! ;)
I can remember the various Gazetteers being published, and the excitement of discovering new areas of the world, new cultures, more of the history of Mystara and how the nations interacted with each other.
Now you pick up the various books to get new ideas and for a sense of completeness. Then it was - "Wow! This is so cool, seperate Gazetteers for Dwarves, Elves and Halflings! Time to spend some money!"
Now I buy because I need to - then it was because I REALLY wanted to.
4. Rich History - I LOVE Mystara's history, contradictions and all! Although it may be piece-mail, it gives alot of background support for the present and things to discover. (I have never yet done this, but I'd love to have campaigns placed at various points in Mystara's history: Think how cool it would be to run PCs through times like Glantri's founding, Traladara's battle with the Beastmen, the first Great War between Alphatia and Thyatis in BC 2, the Silver Purge in Minrothad... I could go on forever!)
YES!
I recently picked up a copy of Heroes of Battle, which describes how to run a wartime campaign (very cool ideas in it too, I might add). As I was flipping through it, the first thing to come to mind was: The Traladaran/Beastman War!
Although I am currently running an online campaign, when it ends I will most certainly be time-hopping back to the days of Halav, Petra, and Zirchev. It is just way too neat to pass up.
And that is one of the things I like most about Mystara. A DM can go back and fill in all kinds of details without destroying the "feel" of the setting as a whole.
Hollow World was my first D&D product, then I found out it didn't have the rules, so my dad and I went back to Waldenbooks to pick up the Rules Cycolpedia.
When it became a 2nd edition "introductory" setting, a lot of the charm was lost for me...
I think part of the uniqueness of Mystara (at least originally) was the fact that it was NOT an AD&D campaign setting! The simple fact that dwarves, elves and halflings were...dwarves, elves and halflings, among many other things! As other have mentioned, the fact that the Known World was developped a small chunk at a time through the Gazeteer series as opposed to "en masse" was part of the charm. As well, the timelines in the almanacs gave me the feel it was an actual living as opposed to static world.
When it became a 2nd edition "introductory" setting, a lot of the charm was lost for me...
Not everything was bad with the 2E Mystara line.
Some mistakes that were made:
* Inclusion of the CDs
* Too expensive boxed sets compared to the actual contents. The price issue was partly a result of the CDs included.
* Not enough new stuff for the existing fan base
* A mistaken assumption that Mystara should be a *light* setting.
* Lack of an introductory product covering the entire setting.
* Poor marketing.
* Maps were of lower quality than previous ones. Art was also inferior IMHO, even though it was in colors.
* Low quality products like the Survival Kits, helped reduce the impression of the settings quality and seriousness.
Some good things:
* Karameikos: Even though it offered little new, it is a good product.
* Glantri: Not as good as K:KoA, or Gaz3, but still a decent boxed set.
* Mark of Amber: The best scenario published for 2E Mystara.
* Red Steel: An excellent product line altogether. Too bad it didnt have the Mystara name attached to it.
* PWA: A Good solid product, although it offered little new. It was the best presentation of Mystara as a complete setting for the 2E system.
* Monsterous Compendium Mystara appendix: A Great book! I would have liked darker, more serious artwork as the OD&D Creature Catalogues had, though this one did have color art.
* Excellent adaption of the AD&D rules in the Red Steel line. Too bad this wasnt applied as well in the other boxed sets.
Håvard