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AB's and alternate energy sources

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
cnahumck
Jan 14, 2006 15:32:17 Ok, so in other threads this has been touched on, and I wanted to suggest/explore some ideas that surround it. Many people have talked about variant transformations and what happens if you have an AB that is a wizard that draws energy from a different source (the Grey/Black/Cerulean Storm). Some have suggested (myself included) that a different metamorphosis be developed for these different paths. While some currently exist, others don’t. A necromant can become undead. A Shadow mage can gain the black touched template, or the shade template (if the DM allows, it’s from the FR setting). The Storm mage can shape change into a storm of some kind. The problem with these changes is that they all are one step changes, not slow processes that require epic spells. To me, that is fine. The other part of an AB is the PrC that goes with it, where the character learns more about their nature. The Undead have this in the form of the “life drinker” PrC from the book of vile darkness. The problem is that none of these changes or PrC’s require psionics. None of them are really AB’s, just possible very powerful characters or NPC’s.

So, I was going to put an idea out there. Since these variant spellcasters are really just defilers or preservers that use a different source, the only two paths of AB transformation should be Dragons and Avaingons. That being said, taking levels in one of these PrC’s (necromant, etc.) should have some impact on the change itself. Obviously the cosmetic changes are the easiest, as they require no rules and just look cool. A Storm Dragon with a crown of lightning or wings of clouds or that look like a rain storm. Just cosmetic changes require no additional rules. And the AB will have the abilities granted to the character by the PrC. However, what if we developed some Psionic Enchantments that were only available to these types of characters. What if shadow dragons were able to raze the Black for their magic, drawing the plane closer to Athas, dropping the temperature and damaging people in the area, but not taking any life force from them, like the psionic raze Psionic Enchantment?

These are just ideas, and people may hate them, obviously spells could be used to create similar effects, but we haven’t seemed to talk about this specifically and it seems like it could be interesting. Maybe the consensus will be that these types of characters should be allowed to become AB’s as their focus changes. Just putting it out there. Oh, and I am not thinking that any of the SK’s would be this way. Maybe Andy in the future, but none of the others. Dregoth is the only one it would apply to anyway, and he’s had a slightly different focus for the past 2000 years.
#2
ruhl-than_sage
Jan 14, 2006 17:58:42 :D these are the 1st really good ideas I've seen along the line of Alternate Source ABs. I say go with it.
#3
jon_oracle_of_athas
Jan 15, 2006 4:27:20
Obviously the cosmetic changes are the easiest, as they require no rules and just look cool. A Storm Dragon with a crown of lightning or wings of clouds or that look like a rain storm. Just cosmetic changes require no additional rules. And the AB will have the abilities granted to the character by the PrC. However, what if we developed some Psionic Enchantments that were only available to these types of characters. What if shadow dragons were able to raze the Black for their magic, drawing the plane closer to Athas, dropping the temperature and damaging people in the area, but not taking any life force from them, like the psionic raze Psionic Enchantment?

To me, the easiest way for you to implement your suggestion is to create a variant Athasian Dragon prestige class, which has another set of (or optional) psionic enchantments, substitute mechanics for dragon magic, and specific new class features that fit the relevant source of power (an improved Cerulean Blast for example).

PS: It would make your text more readable if you use paragraphs.
#4
cnahumck
Jan 15, 2006 10:31:25
To me, the easiest way for you to implement your suggestion is to create a variant Athasian Dragon prestige class, which has another set of (or optional) psionic enchantments, substitute mechanics for dragon magic, and specific new class features that fit the relevant source of power (an improved Cerulean Blast for example).

PS: It would make your text more readable if you use paragraphs.

Sorry, I thought that the original had the paragraphs set apart. thanks.

Also, I am wondering what those substitutes would be, and is it necessary to make a whole new PrC to fit it? Would this be a "cumpulsory symetry" thing, which I want to avoid. Like I said, I am against the idea of anything different from the two existing transformations, but if anyone has any ideas, please let me know, I may be wrong.

Incidentally, what would be suggested as a good alternative to the existing PrC? Any ideas for class features or substitute dragon mechanics?
#5
jon_oracle_of_athas
Jan 15, 2006 14:43:52
Also, I am wondering what those substitutes would be, and is it necessary to make a whole new PrC to fit it? Would this be a "cumpulsory symetry" thing, which I want to avoid. Like I said, I am against the idea of anything different from the two existing transformations, but if anyone has any ideas, please let me know, I may be wrong.

The physical transformation is caused by the spells, while the other features of the dragon/avangion come from the respective prestige classes. You would not be altering the physical aspects of the transformation, thus keeping the two transformations intact. You yourself suggested the alternate psionic enchantments.

PS: This would not be a case of compulsive symmetry. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cnahumck Jan 14, 2006 15:32:17	Ok, so in other threads this has been touched on, and I wanted to suggest/explore some ideas that surround it. Many people have talked about variant transformations and what happens if you have an AB that is a wizard that draws energy from a different source (the Grey/Black/Cerulean Storm). Some have suggested (myself included) that a different metamorphosis be developed for these different paths. While some currently exist, others don’t. A necromant can become undead. A Shadow mage can gain the black touched template, or the shade template (if the DM allows, it’s from the FR setting). The Storm mage can shape change into a storm of some kind. The problem with these changes is that they all are one step changes, not slow processes that require epic spells. To me, that is fine. The other part of an AB is the PrC that goes with it, where the character learns more about their nature. The Undead have this in the form of the “life drinker” PrC from the book of vile darkness. The problem is that none of these changes or PrC’s require psionics. None of them are really AB’s, just possible very powerful characters or NPC’s. So, I was going to put an idea out there. Since these variant spellcasters are really just defilers or preservers that use a different source, the only two paths of AB transformation should be Dragons and Avaingons. That being said, taking levels in one of these PrC’s (necromant, etc.) should have some impact on the change itself. Obviously the cosmetic changes are the easiest, as they require no rules and just look cool. A Storm Dragon with a crown of lightning or wings of clouds or that look like a rain storm. Just cosmetic changes require no additional rules. And the AB will have the abilities granted to the character by the PrC. However, what if we developed some Psionic Enchantments that were only available to these types of characters. What if shadow dragons were able to raze the Black for their magic, drawing the plane closer to Athas, dropping the temperature and damaging people in the area, but not taking any life force from them, like the psionic raze Psionic Enchantment? These are just ideas, and people may hate them, obviously spells could be used to create similar effects, but we haven’t seemed to talk about this specifically and it seems like it could be interesting. Maybe the consensus will be that these types of characters should be allowed to become AB’s as their focus changes. Just putting it out there. Oh, and I am not thinking that any of the SK’s would be this way. Maybe Andy in the future, but none of the others. Dregoth is the only one it would apply to anyway, and he’s had a slightly different focus for the past 2000 years.
#2 ruhl-than_sage Jan 14, 2006 17:58:42	:D these are the 1st really good ideas I've seen along the line of Alternate Source ABs. I say go with it.
#3 jon_oracle_of_athas Jan 15, 2006 4:27:20	Obviously the cosmetic changes are the easiest, as they require no rules and just look cool. A Storm Dragon with a crown of lightning or wings of clouds or that look like a rain storm. Just cosmetic changes require no additional rules. And the AB will have the abilities granted to the character by the PrC. However, what if we developed some Psionic Enchantments that were only available to these types of characters. What if shadow dragons were able to raze the Black for their magic, drawing the plane closer to Athas, dropping the temperature and damaging people in the area, but not taking any life force from them, like the psionic raze Psionic Enchantment? To me, the easiest way for you to implement your suggestion is to create a variant Athasian Dragon prestige class, which has another set of (or optional) psionic enchantments, substitute mechanics for dragon magic, and specific new class features that fit the relevant source of power (an improved Cerulean Blast for example). PS: It would make your text more readable if you use paragraphs.
#4 cnahumck Jan 15, 2006 10:31:25	To me, the easiest way for you to implement your suggestion is to create a variant Athasian Dragon prestige class, which has another set of (or optional) psionic enchantments, substitute mechanics for dragon magic, and specific new class features that fit the relevant source of power (an improved Cerulean Blast for example). PS: It would make your text more readable if you use paragraphs. Sorry, I thought that the original had the paragraphs set apart. thanks. Also, I am wondering what those substitutes would be, and is it necessary to make a whole new PrC to fit it? Would this be a "cumpulsory symetry" thing, which I want to avoid. Like I said, I am against the idea of anything different from the two existing transformations, but if anyone has any ideas, please let me know, I may be wrong. Incidentally, what would be suggested as a good alternative to the existing PrC? Any ideas for class features or substitute dragon mechanics?
#5 jon_oracle_of_athas Jan 15, 2006 14:43:52	Also, I am wondering what those substitutes would be, and is it necessary to make a whole new PrC to fit it? Would this be a "cumpulsory symetry" thing, which I want to avoid. Like I said, I am against the idea of anything different from the two existing transformations, but if anyone has any ideas, please let me know, I may be wrong. The physical transformation is caused by the spells, while the other features of the dragon/avangion come from the respective prestige classes. You would not be altering the physical aspects of the transformation, thus keeping the two transformations intact. You yourself suggested the alternate psionic enchantments. PS: This would not be a case of compulsive symmetry. ;)