Recently, I had two new players join my Planescape campaign. I asked them to create their PC concepts and show me when they were finished. A day or two later, the two come back and tell me they want to play a Mul and a Villichi from Athas, and a couple at that! I'm still waiting for their finalized backstory (I really want to see how they got themselves off of Athas), but this got me thinking; what exactly are the planar connections to Athas?
I've been scouring my Planescape material, the Dark Sun 3e pdfs and some of the 2e Dark Sun books that I've come across. So far, I've come up with:
- An Athasian district in the planar city of Sigil, called New Tyr
- A githyanki invasion of Athas (I've only seen this referenced, if anyone could give me more information, I would greatly appreciate it)
- A tribe of Athasian elves living in Pelion, the third layer of Arborea
- A portal that was used by Dregoth (Again, any information would be appreciated)
I don't think this is a complete list so any additions would also be appreciated.
I understand that the conduits of Athas connect to the Inner Planes instead of the Outer Planes and that the Grey, the Black or both of them block most forms of planar transportation. However, I still only have the foggiest idea of the Grey and the Black (What are they? Transitive planes, demiplanes, pseudo-planes or something else. For that matter, were they created during the birth of Athas or were they created at a later time?). Also, waht happend to the dead of Athas? Are they trapped in a state of limbo in the Grey? I would think that, for the most part, there has been very little information released on the Grey and the Black but, again, any information would be greatly appreciated.
One final question. I read a document from Spelljammer.org that was about Athas's crystal sphere (Here it is). Is this view of Athas's crystal sphere generally accepted by the Dark Sun community or is it too "Spelljammer-y"?
First off, I'd like to say that I've really enjoyed the Dark Sun 3e documents and this chance to learn more about the setting. I've been having a very strong urge to start up a Dark Sun campaign when I've finished my current Planescape campaign. Now, on to the questions.
Recently, I had two new players join my Planescape campaign. I asked them to create their PC concepts and show me when they were finished. A day or two later, the two come back and tell me they want to play a Mul and a Villichi from Athas, and a couple at that! I'm still waiting for their finalized backstory (I really want to see how they got themselves off of Athas), but this got me thinking; what exactly are the planar connections to Athas?
I've been scouring my Planescape material, the Dark Sun 3e pdfs and some of the 2e Dark Sun books that I've come across. So far, I've come up with:
- An Athasian district in the planar city of Sigil, called New Tyr
- A githyanki invasion of Athas (I've only seen this referenced, if anyone could give me more information, I would greatly appreciate it)
- A tribe of Athasian elves living in Pelion, the third layer of Arborea
- A portal that was used by Dregoth (Again, any information would be appreciated)
I don't think this is a complete list so any additions would also be appreciated.
I understand that the conduits of Athas connect to the Inner Planes instead of the Outer Planes and that the Grey, the Black or both of them block most forms of planar transportation. However, I still only have the foggiest idea of the Grey and the Black (What are they? Transitive planes, demiplanes, pseudo-planes or something else. For that matter, were they created during the birth of Athas or were they created at a later time?). Also, waht happend to the dead of Athas? Are they trapped in a state of limbo in the Grey? I would think that, for the most part, there has been very little information released on the Grey and the Black but, again, any information would be greatly appreciated.
The Gray blocks most forms of travel -- my personal view (and this is in no way official) is that it's a bizarre interlapping of the Ethereal & Astral planes that has become a barrier of sorts. The Shadow Plane trapped within the Gray became the Black. This separates Athas from the known Transitive planes, and thus any connection to the Outer Planes (save one -- the Plane of Mirrors, which I believe that the Planar Gate uses to link out to the Outer Planes). Somehow the Positive & Negative Energy planes also got radically altered -- I tend to think that the Negative Energy plane has dispursed and integrated into the Black & the Gray, while the Positive Energy plane is now integrated into the Elemental and Paraelemental planes (evenly). I see the Gray as a roughly egg-shaped HUGE "bubble" in the Astral Plane that is impegetrable (except for very rare occasions -- the Githyanki have done it, and a few others over the millenia).
One final question. I read a document from Spelljammer.org that was about Athas's crystal sphere (Here it is). Is this view of Athas's crystal sphere generally accepted by the Dark Sun community or is it too "Spelljammer-y"?
Lol, so that's where NightDruid's write-up went to :P
The Gray blocks most forms of travel -- my personal view (and this is in no way official) is that it's a bizarre interlapping of the Ethereal & Astral planes that has become a barrier of sorts. The Shadow Plane trapped within the Gray became the Black. This separates Athas from the known Transitive planes, and thus any connection to the Outer Planes (save one -- the Plane of Mirrors, which I believe that the Planar Gate uses to link out to the Outer Planes). Somehow the Positive & Negative Energy planes also got radically altered -- I tend to think that the Negative Energy plane has dispursed and integrated into the Black & the Gray, while the Positive Energy plane is now integrated into the Elemental and Paraelemental planes (evenly). I see the Gray as a roughly egg-shaped HUGE "bubble" in the Astral Plane that is impegetrable (except for very rare occasions -- the Githyanki have done it, and a few others over the millenia).
That's a damn good description, very similar to the one close to my heart.
however, i LUV teh planescape and spelljammer. so as far as the Crimson Sphere mentioned on Spelljammer.com...that's the most comprehensive and interesting take on the sphere of Athas that i've read and i may utilize some of it one day in the future, but not without some serious tweaks.
the portals and information related to Athas in PS is all there really is. i've been scouring every printed sourcebook, boxed set, and whatnot for this information for the past month or so; and what you layed out is pretty much what there is.
i'd say that because Athas is so deeply aligned to the inner planes, there would probably be a huge amount of elemental vortices leading to and from athas itself. these would probably be the fastest and most direct routes on and off this particular prime world. IMC the vortices are the only planar travel that bypasses the Gray and the Black, sadly most of these vortices sit right next to the citadel of an elemental lord assigned to guard/keep them. travel to these vortices is an undertaking in and of itself, not to mention the fact that once you get to one jumping on into it is a whole other feat, and finally surviving the trip to the plane of that particular element is nearly impossible for the uneducated planewalker, let alone a clueless sod from Athas.
Athas has its own paraplanes - Silt, Sun, Rain, and Magma (at least in the printed materials). these paraplanes actually represent the following paraplanes in PS (as listed in the supplement Earth, Air, Fire, and Water ...
Silt = Ooze
Sun = Smoke
Rain = Ice
Magma = Magma
the translation works fairly well. the intense and sweltering heat of Smoke is much like the sweltering heat of the Athasian sun; the ooze of the paraplane of Ooze when dried out is something like a choking, powdery loam; the heat of Athas as a world probably melts Ice thus creating Rain (precipitation is precipitation); and well, magma is magma.
there are also specific quasiplanes of Athas as well - obsidian, lightning, etc. but most, after reading through A Guide to the Inner Planes can be found in the various borders between elements, paraplanes and quasiplanes.
as for the Gray and the Black, they're unique to Athas. they are the transitive planes of Athas and have existed since...well...since anyone can remember. they MIGHT not have existed in the early Ages of Athas, but no one knows for certain. they are barriar-like planes surrounding athas like a shell. the Gray is where the dead go, their spiritual essences slowly absorbed into the essence of the plane over time. the Black is a place of shadow and cold...a freezing vaccuum of shadows. then the hollow is a sort of "egg" or "bubble" of absolute nothingness beneath these planes...it is the prison for a very nasty being...some would argue that it was created specifically for this being...
anyway, that's all i know off the top of my head. hope that helps out a bit.
One final question. I read a document from Spelljammer.org that was about Athas's crystal sphere (Here it is). Is this view of Athas's crystal sphere generally accepted by the Dark Sun community or is it too "Spelljammer-y"?
Sweet! I've been looking for that. Good ol Nightdruid.
many here keep Athas as a seperate cosmology...no spelljamming and no planewalking...it is its own thing.
I fall somewhere between -- basically, I don't make it completely impossible, just excruciatingly difficult (hell, if Rajaat couldn't do it...) I do have Athas as having a "bubble" that restricts Spelljamming from working correctly (however I allow for "normal" space travel, which I tend to associate as being part of a different "plane")
however, i LUV teh planescape and spelljammer. so as far as the Crimson Sphere mentioned on Spelljammer.com...that's the most comprehensive and interesting take on the sphere of Athas that i've read and i may utilize some of it one day in the future, but not without some serious tweaks.
I liked Planescape. Honestly, Spelljammer was before my time (for my interaction with AD&D -- I really avoided the 2nd Ed. system a lot). I just like making Athas an anomaly in that environment -- but it's still part of the multiverse.
the portals and information related to Athas in PS is all there really is. i've been scouring every printed sourcebook, boxed set, and whatnot for this information for the past month or so; and what you layed out is pretty much what there is.
i'd say that because Athas is so deeply aligned to the inner planes, there would probably be a huge amount of elemental vortices leading to and from athas itself. these would probably be the fastest and most direct routes on and off this particular prime world. IMC the vortices are the only planar travel that bypasses the Gray and the Black, sadly most of these vortices sit right next to the citadel of an elemental lord assigned to guard/keep them. travel to these vortices is an undertaking in and of itself, not to mention the fact that once you get to one jumping on into it is a whole other feat, and finally surviving the trip to the plane of that particular element is nearly impossible for the uneducated planewalker, let alone a clueless sod from Athas.
Athas has its own paraplanes - Silt, Sun, Rain, and Magma (at least in the printed materials). these paraplanes actually represent the following paraplanes in PS (as listed in the supplement Earth, Air, Fire, and Water ...
Silt = Ooze
Sun = Smoke
Rain = Ice
Magma = Magma
the translation works fairly well. the intense and sweltering heat of Smoke is much like the sweltering heat of the Athasian sun; the ooze of the paraplane of Ooze when dried out is something like a choking, powdery loam; the heat of Athas as a world probably melts Ice thus creating Rain (precipitation is precipitation); and well, magma is magma.
I usually see the alterations/differences as a corruption of the natural order of things -- part of the inherent difficulties within Athas itself.
there are also specific quasiplanes of Athas as well - obsidian, lightning, etc. but most, after reading through A Guide to the Inner Planes can be found in the various borders between elements, paraplanes and quasiplanes.
as for the Gray and the Black, they're unique to Athas. they are the transitive planes of Athas and have existed since...well...since anyone can remember. they MIGHT not have existed in the early Ages of Athas, but no one knows for certain. they are barriar-like planes surrounding athas like a shell. the Gray is where the dead go, their spiritual essences slowly absorbed into the essence of the plane over time. the Black is a place of shadow and cold...a freezing vaccuum of shadows. then the hollow is a sort of "egg" or "bubble" of absolute nothingness beneath these planes...it is the prison for a very nasty being...some would argue that it was created specifically for this being...
Dont forget about the Asral plane existing with Athas's cosmology. It is mentioned in Terros of the Dead Lands.
It's mentioned.... but for my own campaigns, I use the Gray for both my Ethereal & Astral planes. Athas.org was trying to stick closer to the designs that are already existing for D&D 3/3.5e somewhat there, and had listed the Astral Plane as actually existing as a separate entity -- or something like that.
It's mentioned.... but for my own campaigns, I use the Gray for both my Ethereal & Astral planes. Athas.org was trying to stick closer to the designs that are already existing for D&D 3/3.5e somewhat there, and had listed the Astral Plane as actually existing as a separate entity -- or something like that.
unofficially... me too ;) as far as the etheral and astral planes.
By the way, I like your theory about the negative and positive planes merging into the grey, black and inner palnes. I may steal that :P
It's mentioned.... but for my own campaigns, I use the Gray for both my Ethereal & Astral planes. Athas.org was trying to stick closer to the designs that are already existing for D&D 3/3.5e somewhat there, and had listed the Astral Plane as actually existing as a separate entity -- or something like that.
The cosmology portion of Terrors of the Dead Lands was pretty confusing to me. Under 2E (Preservers and Defilers specifically), wasn't the Astral cut off by the Gray as well as the Outer Planes? And is the Deep a new creation of Athas.org? I don't remember any references to it under 2E.
The cosmology portion of Terrors of the Dead Lands was pretty confusing to me. Under 2E (Preservers and Defilers specifically), wasn't the Astral cut off by the Gray as well as the Outer Planes? And is the Deep a new creation of Athas.org? I don't remember any references to it under 2E.
The astral existed on both sides (since the astral is everywhere) and since you could not bypass the barrier plane you could not reach the outer planes. Totdl is the first material mentioning the deep besides the story books.
By the way, I like your theory about the negative and positive planes merging into the grey, black and inner palnes. I may steal that :P
Thanks. I don't think I can take full credit for it. I'm almost positive I borrowed it from someone else.
The cosmology portion of Terrors of the Dead Lands was pretty confusing to me. Under 2E (Preservers and Defilers specifically), wasn't the Astral cut off by the Gray as well as the Outer Planes? And is the Deep a new creation of Athas.org? I don't remember any references to it under 2E.
The astral was included as it appears in a few other DS supplements and features quite prominently in the psionics rules. We explored the possibilities of ditching it entirely, but decided to leave it intact for those reasons. We deliberately avoided more detailed rules for the planes and focussed on the internal characteristics of the Gray as this was most useful for the TotDL supplement. We were also aware that the planes would probably get a more thorough treatment further down the line and wanted to avoid setting things in stone, as it were, so as not to contradict or invalidate later work. It keeps things open for future development. So no rules for crossing the Gray to reach the Astral there - we'll save that for another day and another project, I guess
. We also merged the negative material plane with the Gray, developing the concept of the "Deep Gray", and the positive material with the elemental planes, making those the source of the energies of existence.The Deep is more a nod to Athasian nomenclature than a reworking of the Outer Planes. We figured that most Athasians would have little or no concept of "Outer" Planes and settled on the name of "the Deep" as a good way to represent this. It also allows individual DMs a certain amount of freedom in their own campaigns. Many DMs would like the Outer Planes to be unconnected to the DS cosmology, and the Deep allows them to handwave them away, or have some Far Realm type oddness out in the big beyond (or anything they desire, really, it's that vague). However, there are definite references to the Outer Planes in DS material and outer planar creatures pop up from time to time in DS supplements, so for DMs who wanted to preserve that element of the setting, the concept of the Deep is equally flexible. It allows for the idea, for example, that the Deep is composed of several planes, layers, regions, or whatver, pretty much giving the DM the freedom to use the standard Great Wheel cosmology, or something of their own design. Rather than be some strange reworking of the planes, the concept of the Deep is very much a tool for DMs to customise to suit their own needs.
There is no real afterlife for athas as far as anyone knows, but hey thats just like real life now isn't it?
I think the best source of information about the githyanki invaion of athas is probably in the Black Spine Adventure. The PCs foil a second atempt in that one.
Dregoth has a planar gateway in the form of a very large freestanding mirror it is the only known gateway to the outerplanes and other prime worlds in the setting. He has spent quite a bit of time traveling the planes and learning about the multiverse through the use of that mirror and even brought a number of things back with him. It would be possible though very outlandish to suppose that someone could sneak through his underground city and the gateway to escape from athas.
from what i remember, i had envisioned the inner planes, ethereal, prime and astral planes as a part of the standard Planescape cosmology. what i had devised that made Athas unique was its position in this cosmology. originally i thought of Athas as being half in and half out of the standard prime-material plane. for whatever reason, natural or otherwise, the prime of athas was partially shunted (or developed partially within) the border of the ethereal, astral and prime material. this odd position led to the phenomenon of the Black and the Gray respectively as it keeps divine conduits from reaching it via the astral plane, thereby cutting of divine influence, and preventing the dead from reaching the outlands. due to it's unique location it has developed more conduits (or vortices) to the various inner planes, but even then these conduits have a hard time penetrating the transitive layers of the Black and Gray. thus, a majority of the matter funneled to athas via these vortices gets "stuck" in the interdimensional layers and begins to pool. these pools develop into the various Athasian equivalents of the inner planes and that explains the differences. when the sorcerer kings became dragons they also inadvertantly became the focus for some of the trapped elemental energy and this is what allows them to channel spells to their templars.
i like the Gray and Black as results of Negative/Positive energy interacting with the planar barriers, that's a cool idea as well.
The Gray is the barrier, the Black is within the Gray :P /nitpick
Yeah, other than that, that is an awesome representation.
i had done this piece with the PS cosmology in mind, and it was an attempt to marry both into one unified Athasian cosmology. so the positive and negative planes are representational of the standard PS cosmology. i think what i could do is, like the elemental vortices leading to Athas, i could draw in vortices of positive and negative energy that form the Gray and Black around it while keeping with the standard PS model. thus, it would make Athas sort of a "well" for elemental energy, and it's the mixing of the positive/negative energies (forces of life and death) around it that may give the elements their "divine" aspect...in that they can be called upon by clerics and such. this may also result in the living vortices as well, conduits of elemental energy given life by the positive energies that flow in the ethereal around Athas. just throwin' around some ideas.
I usually work with the idea that the Inner Planes are unique/exclusive to each Prime Material plane (so Athas' Fire Plane is different than Oerth's Fire Plane, which is different than Krynn's Fire Plane, etc.) Maybe showing that the Astral Plane surrounds the Gray (but the Gray is a barrier) would be cool too.
Since not everyone has access to the 2e materials, I figured I'd recap them here, to hopefully help out in this discussion. A lot of this has already been stated by others in bits-and-pieces, but here it is in a full recap:
- The Black is described as being like the shell of an egg, with the rest of Athas outside the egg and the Hollow deep within it.
- The Gray serves as a barrier between the prime material and every other plane, and planar travel spells have a high chance of outright failing, and those casting attempts that don't fail may end up depositing the caster into the Gray instead of his/her destination.
- It is mentioned that the Gray has a "life-sapping effect" that drains 1 Constitution point per day out of living creatures lost in it. Also, it is the plane itself that slowly absorbs the souls of the dead, "much as their corpses are slowly obliterated by rot and decay on Athas."
- The Gray is thicker along the metaphysical path that leads from the prime material to the astral and on to the outer planes than it is from the prime material to the ethereal and on to the inner planes.
- The picture from D&P associated with the above info is a linear chart showing the Black (with the Hollow inside of it) as an "egg" surrounded by the prime material, then to one side of the prime there's a thick expanse of the Gray, then the astral, then the outer planes. To the other side is a thinner expanse of Gray, the ethereal, then the inner planes, and a couple elemental conduits "cutting through" the ethereal and gray, connecting the inner planes to the prime material.
- By 2e DS cosmology, the Astral and Ethereal are completely separate from the Gray, but are both "outside" of it (as described above).
- There's no mention in any of the 2e DS books of the negative or positive material planes (as far as I am aware), nor of any of the other demi-planes other than the demiplane of shadow...and that is only mentioned by "the Black is similar to the demiplane of shadow."
- The description of the necromancer from D&P does mention "negative energies," so at least that's a reference directly connecting the Gray and negative energy.
- Earth, Air, Fire and Water doesn't make mention of the Gray as an impediment between the prime material and the inner planes (go figure...). However, it does, indirectly, describe all the inner planes as being connected to each other - you can get to the paraelemental planes via movement within the elemental plane it borders, so theoretically you could walk your way clear through all of the elemental planes if you really wanted to.
- There is at least one adventure (I can't remember which) that has a demon protagonist that is living on the prime material.
- The adventure Black Spine totally ignores the barrier that the Gray imposes, as well as making some other incredulous statements. According to it, the Githyanki once had multiple settlements on Athas, and even created a special "Planar Shield" around one city to prevent plane shifting, the Githzerai assaulted these settlements with "psionic bombs" that turned psionic creatures into idiots, specifically the githyanki, and that the gith are definitely the descendents of those psi-blasted githyanki that survived. It also suggests that these psi-bombs may have led to the development of so many psionic creatures on Athas...but that's another topic entirely. Then, in the adventure, a githyanki city builds the "Nightmare Gate", a huge portal between the astral and prime material that circumvents the Planar Shield protecting the one githyanki city on Athas. The moral of the story here is, I think, that you can definitely create magical items that bypass planar barries (such as the Gray).
- Psionic Artifacts of Athas lists Dregoth's Planar Gate as being a psionic item created by the psionic masters of the Green Age, and impossible for even the greatest sorcerer-king to duplicate (although Dregoth, obviously, figured out how to use it). The wording in the book supports the idea that travel to other planes is very difficult, and that the gate is just powerful enough to do so on a regular basis.
I'm sure there's more, but that's all I could recall having read (and hence all I could look up and paraphrase).
Back to personal opinion on this subject - the fact that 3e specifically states that pretty much every form of dimensional travel goes through the astral causes the biggest problem when combined with the "Gray as boundry" concept, which is why I'm really glad that TotD got around that by moving the astral plane directly parallel to Athas - it not only resolves the dim-travel issue, but also justifies how the githyanki could have easily had several settlements on Athas, and why they would have needed to create a Planar Shield to block travel to their cities.
I'm also not fond of the Positive/Negative Energy Plane being represented. They weren't in the cosmological information for Athas from Defilers & Preservers... Maybe some note showing the Positive plane being part of the Elemental planes, and the Negative plane being with the Black/Gray?
Not everyone agrees with you on that connection. Some people have the paraelements associated with the negative energy plane and the elements with the positive. And some use the standard view that the elemetal planes are associated with both the negative and positive as they are in a the standard D&D cosmology.
Not everyone agrees with you on that connection. Some people have the paraelements associated with the negative energy plane and the elements with the positive. And some use the standard view that the elemetal planes are associated with both the negative and positive as they are in a the standard D&D cosmology.
I was actually refering to make it like how Terrors of Athas kind of sketches things roughly.
I was actually refering to make it like how Terrors of Athas kind of sketches things roughly.
I think you mean Terrors of the Deadlands?
I think you mean Terrors of the Deadlands?
Whatever. Read the blue text in my sig :P
Whatever. Read the blue text in my sig :P
Whatever. Read the blue text in my sig :P
:D
I can definately see a connection between the black and the negative energy plane. Possibly there is some sort of rift in the grey where the negative energy plane has leaked in which is what created the black.
I also could see it as a more recent creation. If the grey is the plane of the dead (in a sense). Then perhaps the black was created by the cleansing wars. All those people killed so horrifically in mass numbers could have sent huge surges of netagive energy into the grey causing the the black to form. It would be poetic justice to put that weight onto Rajaats shoulders (the ultimate cause) by imprisoning him in the hollow (which is described as being "under" the black)
I don't think this would cause any cosmological problems with the setting either as the grey alone would have been sufficent to isolate athas from the outer planes.
The Gray is the barrier, the Black is within the Gray :P /nitpick
Actually, the Black was "beneath" Athas (akin to the current set-up for the Plane of Shadow) and the Hollow was "beneath" that, IIRC.
Actually, the Black was "beneath" Athas (akin to the current set-up for the Plane of Shadow) and the Hollow was "beneath" that, IIRC.
And the Gray surrounded it all.
Actually, the Black was "beneath" Athas (akin to the current set-up for the Plane of Shadow) and the Hollow was "beneath" that, IIRC.
I should probably ask this over on the BR section but it works here: For those of us familiar with the halflings of Aebrynis, is it just me or was there a possible connection between the Green Age halflings/shadow giants of Rajaat and the halflin exodus in BR?
After all, IIRC, the BR halflings came from Aebrynis's Shadow Plane.
Thoughts?
I should probably ask this over on the BR section but it works here: For those of us familiar with the halflings of Aebrynis, is it just me or was there a possible connection between the Green Age halflings/shadow giants of Rajaat and the halflin exodus in BR?
After all, IIRC, the BR halflings came from Aebrynis's Shadow Plane.
Thoughts?
I wouldn't have thought so. The halflings in BR were native to the Aebrynis Shadow World and fled a dark power which set up shop there shortly after the explosion at Mount Deismaar. The halflings on Athas were one of (perhaps THE) earliest races to gain sentience. The Shadow Giants whose natural forms in the Black are that of halflings were some of Rajaat's Green Age halfling followers imprisoned in the Black after the Champions banished Rajaat to the Hollow.
Personally I always thought the BR halflings were fleeing the Cold Rider, commonly believed to be the shattered remains of Azrai. But I digress!
If anything, this thread shows that an official work on the planes is needed - having not cared too much about the planes and Athas (since my group is lvl 3, and planar travel isn't too customary at that level ;) ), I'm utterly and thoroughly confused by all of you...
Board Regular 1: "See, this is how it works..."
Me: "Eh, uh...ok, I think I get it, maybe"
Board Regular 2: "No no BR1, it's actually the other way around.... Me: "Ehm...*thinking for 10 mins* ah, I see..."
Board Regular 3: "Actually, I think that you both have it slightly wrong, and here's how I look at it...
Me: "Eh....so the Black is actually the Grey, only it's not, unless it's Free Year 10 and Kalak is Dead, while the Dragon is still alive, but not from midnight till 2 am..."
:surrender :surrender :surrender
I- The Gray is thicker along the metaphysical path that leads from the prime material to the astral and on to the outer planes than it is from the prime material to the ethereal and on to the inner planes.
I've read that somewhere too... anyway, i've always taken that to means that the souls of the dead naturally gravitate towards the outer and inner planes.
Taking a bit of a leap, when I GM i used that as proof that Athas was once linked to the outerplanes and that at an instinctual level the souls of the dead head "home"
Having said that, given that the elements are so much more involved in Athas than other settings, i also see them having a role to play with the souls of the dead, hence some souls head towards them as well.
In any case, various undead being lurk near the now choked pathways to the outer planes and powers, consuming the lost souls who are trying to head back home...
;)
I've read that somewhere too... anyway, i've always taken that to means that the souls of the dead naturally gravitate towards the outer and inner planes.
*snip*
In any case, various undead being lurk near the now choked pathways to the outer planes and powers, consuming the lost souls who are trying to head back home...
It's from Defilers & Preservers, which has the most info on the planar cosmology of Athas AFAIK.
I always figured that the Gray was, in effect, the the spiritual reflection of the harsh realities of life on Athas - eat or be eaten, kill or be killed. Most (or all, possibly) of the background material (novels as well as sourcebooks) describe it as being a place where the souls of the dead wander until they are "devoured" or, for those that remain undead yet stuck in the Gray, they are nearly always found together in a group - in both cases, the equivalent of how life tends to go on the Athasian material plane.
But hey, that's me! I once had a DM allow a cleric from FR to be 'transported' into our group that was playing DS campain. He had a rule that for EACH and EVERY spell the cleric tried to memorise, he had to roll for on the side-bar for being 'lost in the grey'
Needless to say, the cleric had hardly any spells and got killed very quickly :D
Amusing nether the less!
We agreed that Athas rest in the middle, is cotexistant with the Gray and Black (but the they are not coterminous with Athas). The Grey has the planar traits of the Ethereal and Negative, the Black is Shadow and Neagtive.
The Elemental planes have Postive Traits, the Para Elemental planes are not Positive aligned but not negative either.
The Astral is as written but you cannot travel through it if you leave from Athas, you can only travel in it. You can only access it from Athas, not the inner planes, Gray or Black.
Planar travellers can get to Athas reasonable easily, but cannot get out via the Astral (see above) so they tend to be stuck there. This accounts for demons, planer lore etc.
When you die your soul melds with Athas (feeding the world) and your spirit goes to the Grey (thanks Chatholicism!). Thus ressurection actually hurts Athas.
The outer planes are the Deep, hinted at through the lore of past planewalkers trapped on Athas.
The Mirror can allow access to the Deep. As can other DM controlled phenomena.