Who likes their defiling system?
Who uses the races (i like the elan and maenad inclusion)
opinion on equipment, and finally Opinion on their set up for the dragon kings 339....
also, state your opinions on the material presented
Defiling system...powerful and flavorful...but possibly over powered in my opinion
Races: i like the fact that every race has a lvl adjustment of 1, i will include something akin to subsitution lvls presented in various subjects in savage progression.
Equipment: some of the stuff is cool, i like the fact that it is a bit more specific then athas.org
The prc of the dragon seems a bit more balanced...but i could be wrong.
Opinion on their set up for the dragon kings 339....
Having authored both athas.org's and Paizo's dragon rules, my factual description of the dragon rules in Dragon Magazine would be that theyare a compact version of the athas.org rules, more mainstream and easily adapted to a generic D&D setting. The athas.org version uses epic spells for the physical transformation and the prestige class for the mental aspects of dragonhood, which contribute to a larger metamorphosis package than the Paizo version, which utilizes a prestige class for both physical and mental aspects. The athas.org version is more true to the original defiler metamorphosis in Dragon Kings than the Paizo version. As a sidenote, it was a design requirement by Paizo that we avoided epic spells in their version.
I found the players section lame, especially the 1/2 giants being based of the XPH. Still waiting for the Defiling and Dms section in the mail. I did like the idea of Elans being a experiment of the Order though... and have already incorprated that into my campaign.
), I just never agreed with the wandering alignment. It was too problematic for my group, not to mention the fact that I tended to run DS and RL campaigns.Currently, I'm not running a DS campaign
, so I use the Paizo stuff for my homebrew (defiling on an Ice Age world, what fun :evillaugh ). The Paizo dragon PrC I am also considering for a PC that's gonna go NPC in a few sessions, so it should be fun. 
I do prefer athas.org templar treatment vs. Paizo's overall take on priests.Hope that helps.
(Yes, I know the sentence sound clipped, I'm tired, OK
?)1. Clerics. Simpley just plug and play.
2. DS Monsters. CRs seem about right.
3. Elan.
4. Advancing the timeline 300 years. Without a relaunch of DS this avoids the problems of continuity with exisiting campaigns etc. 6/7 Sorceror Kings I like.
Over all though I thought Paizo qas a "lite" version of DS with all the fat and sugar trimmed off. Maybe for new players who never played the original setting.
It just annoys me that the athas.org version has different versions of races and classes than what's in the XPH and the core books (not that i mind the classes taht much, but the races just bug me).
other than that, I use the Paizo stuff because i can actually take it with me to my sessions without having to use up my printer ink.
I prefer the paiso version overall, simply because it doesn't rewrite rules and classes like the athas.org version (no offense, guys).
It just annoys me that the athas.org version has different versions of races and classes than what's in the XPH and the core books (not that i mind the classes taht much, but the races just bug me).
other than that, I use the Paizo stuff because i can actually take it with me to my sessions without having to use up my printer ink.
The original DS rewrote the rules for 2nd ed. New races, classes etc. Wasn't very balanced though. Not to many people played humans when certain non human races had no level limits in some classes.
It just annoys me that the athas.org version has different versions of races and classes than what's in the XPH and the core books (not that i mind the classes taht much, but the races just bug me).
Obviously, you're entitled to your opinion....but COME ON!! :P
DS is not the only setting to change the base races - that's because they're actually different from your standard elves, dwarves and what have you...and anyone who prefers the wimpy XPH half-giant to the athas.org version must be a giant wimp who prefers wimpy campaigns with wimpy players :fight!:
It just annoys me that the athas.org version has different versions of races and classes than what's in the XPH and the core books (not that i mind the classes taht much, but the races just bug me).
You are aware that athasian races were designed to be different from their PHB counterparts already in 2nd edition? And you are aware that the Paizo version does this as well? :P
I like both of the versions. I tend to blend the various traits together, but I don't care for Athas.org's half-giant (sorry, guys ), I just never agreed with the wandering alignment. It was too problematic for my group, not to mention the fact that I tended to run DS and RL campaigns.
Well, that's not just an issue you have with our conversion, it's an issue you have with the original 2E half-giant. Can't accomodate you there.
athas.org remains faithful to the setting in every way.
I like almost everything in the Paizo version, except the defiler points. I freakin hate 'em.
I also hate Athasian Paladins. They were never around in 2E so why now? Sure, it's because Paizo wants everything to be able to 'port into any campaign setting, but please, guys- Dark Sun was a unique world in that some things were available, some things were not, and a lot was different. This insistence on making everything compatible tends to take away what was unique in Dark Sun. It ain't broke, don't even think of fixing it.
I hate the wimped-out 1/2 Giant, like everyone else, I hate that 3.5 took away the variable alignment (something else that made them truly unique).
Everything else Paizo did was good. They should do more Dark Sun articles, pay more attention to what people liked and hated from their previous publications, and contract athas.org folks to do the rest of the DS articles they publish. Or, if David Noonan is going to be the one doing them, he should at least be consulting with athas.org staff to ensure that the best quality articles get written and published. There's no room for egos when the aim is to please fans of the setting.
Races: Every race that athas.org has rules for is worth playing in my opinion (they even made the half elf a cool race
)Classes: Same thing, every class is neat and worth playing.
The one thing about paizo that I liked was the shift in the timeline. I was never very fond of the storyline from the Darksun novels, however going 300 years in the future allows them to do their own thing. In 2e all the city states were static and kinda boring, with the implement of the updated rules and with the rebirth of Darksun in 3e they follow the timeline of the novels, where many sorcerer kings have died and a few do not have a sorcerer king. What I like about paizo's interpretation is that now all the cities have kings (except for tyr, but being the only city gives itself some cool atmosphere) and things have reverted to essential where they've always been. However, there has been enough changes that make the new timeline really exciting.
- Noonian's Defiling System: I like this system, did not like the T'liz, and felt there needed to be an additional counterbalance. I took the T'liz concept out of it, and integrated defiling with the addiction rules from the Book of Vile Darkness -- making defiling be kind of self-destructive and pretty nasty, but still with a good amount of power behind it.
- The concept of the "missing" classes had intrigued me. As such, I made my own versions of the Paladin and Sorcerer for Dark Sun, plus used Nytcrawlr's modified psionic-based Monk.
- I had already planned on making all my Athasian races (save for the Gith which I have yet to really get a write-up together on) be naturally psionic. So I kind of "borrowed" some of the concepts from that.
Other things I brought in was the Erudite class from one of the magazines with the "Dim Sun" articles, I also resurrected the older Athas.org non-spellcasting Ranger class, and have made some mechanical changes to the whole AC & HP systems. I've been compiling all of this together into a single resource (read: book) for my campaigns, which will have everything I allow in my Dark Sun campaigns within it for my players.
Well, that's not just an issue you have with our conversion, it's an issue you have with the original 2E half-giant. Can't accomodate you there.
Admittedly, I haven't looked at your take on'em. Don't have my own computer to look at it consistently.
Admittedly, I haven't looked at your take on'em. Don't have my own computer to look at it consistently.
When did ignorance become a point of view? :P Sorry, just couldn't help resist quoting Dilbert. No offense meant.
The new timeline is interseting too, if you want to return the SK rule and influence. Personally not ready to go backwards though. Id like to let the PC's enjoy being heroes and saviors before all is lost again.
I must say I like the defiling idea better in Pazio's mag. Not crazy about the defiling points but like the idea of extra energy to put into metamagic feats w/o the extra spell slot costs.
The Arch Defiler prestige class has casting time metamagic, which does the same thing - and without turning you into a t'liz.
