Seems to be a race that would work well in Blackmoor.
Now for the tricky bit; how would to take a 3e Eberron race and translate it into Classic D&D Mystara?
Now for the tricky bit; how would to take a 3e Eberron race and translate it into Classic D&D Mystara?
I think you basically have two options with new races in OD&D (I suppose you mean either Rules Cyclopedia or the multi-coloured boxes rather than older versions).
Either you can use the human classes together with the needed racial advantages, and give an appropriate XP penalty (e.g., Rakasta have a -20% on XP), or you can build a monstrous race as in Orcs of Thar. I can't say which would fit better in this specific case, though.
Now for the tricky bit; how would to take a 3e Eberron race and translate it into Classic D&D Mystara?
It's a great concept, but w/ all my od&d & KW stuff in boxes, and my not having played in it for 10+years...I'm at a loss to assist you.
I'd make it a class like the Creature Crucibles
What do you guys think of using warforged on Mystara, specifically in a Hollow Horld Blackmoor setting?
Seems to be a race that would work well in Blackmoor.
Now for the tricky bit; how would to take a 3e Eberron race and translate it into Classic D&D Mystara?
Good idea! I actually posted something about Warforged in Blackmoor over at the ZGG site at one point, but it seems to have been lost when that forum was transferred to dablackmoor.com.
Roughly I listed some sources for Warforged in Blackmoor as:
* The Valley of the Ancients: Robots from the Beagle having become sentient.
* The Egg of Coot: A known manifacturer of technology, the Ran of Ah Fooh himself could have been one of these Warforged.
* Duchy of Ten: Works especially well along with the above. The Ran of Ah Fooh is said to be making an army of robots/zombies/something. Could easily be Warforged.
* Blackmoor University/Regent of the Mines: These factions of Blackmoor are also experimenting with technology and may have been able to produce Warforged, though I doubt they have figured out how to duplicate the process.
Ofcourse, if your Hollow World Blackmoor is based on High Tech Blackmoor, that makes Warforged even more likely to exist. They could perhaps be referred to as Automatons, like the ones in Blacklore Valley.
Now, how should these work in Classic D&D? I would suggest making them a racial class based on the Dwarf Class. They cannot wear armor, but gain bonuses to AC based on level, sort of like Mystics, though on account of improving their actual bodies. They cannot regain HP from resting, but may be magically healed, or repaired by those who know how.
Håvard
Now, how should these work in Classic D&D? I would suggest making them a racial class based on the Dwarf Class. They cannot wear armor, but gain bonuses to AC based on level, sort of like Mystics, though on account of improving their actual bodies. They cannot regain HP from resting, but may be magically healed, or repaired by those who know how.
That's a good off-the-cuff fix Havard.
That's a good off-the-cuff fix Havard.
Thanks Ike!
As you said, this was just off the top of my head. Numbers should be figured out and things should be play-tested. I'm too lazy for that though ;)
Håvard
As you said, this was just off the top of my head. Numbers should be figured out and things should be play-tested. I'm too lazy for that though ;)
I hear ya.
What do you guys think of using warforged on Mystara, specifically in a Hollow Horld Blackmoor setting?
Seems to be a race that would work well in Blackmoor.
Now for the tricky bit; how would to take a 3e Eberron race and translate it into Classic D&D Mystara?
Whats your HW Blackmoor like anyway Cab?
Håvard
Whats your HW Blackmoor like anyway Cab?
Picture the city of Blackmoor at around the time of DA3. Place it in a deep, deep mountain valley and surround it with some pretty major, nasty humanoid tribes (who are in reality magically engineered by the Immortals to keep Blackmoor in). And that's more or less it. Hasn't yet played much of a part in my campaign, but I plan for that to change eventually.
Nice take on the Warforged too... I wonder whether there could even be some left on the outer world from the days of Blackmoor?
Now, how should these work in Classic D&D? I would suggest making them a racial class based on the Dwarf Class. They cannot wear armor, but gain bonuses to AC based on level, sort of like Mystics, though on account of improving their actual bodies. They cannot regain HP from resting, but may be magically healed, or repaired by those who know how.
I started to do a "quick 'n dirty" conversion of sorts the other night. Havard pretty much hit it, I think. IIRC, 2,200 or so "base" xp was what I found (based on PC3/PC4) to account for their abilities and starting HD. Also, IIRC, 2,200 is the Dwarf base XP.
They should also have access to many of the "lesser construct" abilities as noted in the Cyclopedia (in the Making Magic Items section), with the exception of immunity to mind-affecting spells/effects. I'd also allow them to take Shaman/Wokan class levels.
I'm going to check my Dragon #181 when I get home (IIRC, the one with the Lupins/Rakasta classes), but an alternative to monster classes is to do Bruce's Rakasta/Lupin sort of version from that issue- where they can take Human classes, but suffer an initial XP penalty to their advancement.
(Personally, I never really liked that option, because it seemed to go against the entire concept of racial classes established since Basic- dwarves, elves, halflings, orcs, etc.- but it would certainly be a viable option).
I don't know that I'd give them increasing ACs necessarily, since that's not really a part of the Warforged in 3rd Edition. I might instead do something similar to the Rakasta/Lupin subrace concept of Bruce Heard's (again, from Dragon magazine), and have different types of Warforged with different benefits (Adamantine Warforged get an AC benefit, but maybe a Dex penalty, etc.)
Probably won't have a chance to get to it tonight, but I'll try and formalize my Warforged class thoughts a little more here on the boards this weekend.
You could use one Race that advances similarily to the Fighter. Possibly something similar to the Paladin/Knight/Avenger choice at "mid"-levels.
The Warforged start out as a Fighter. Later they can choose between three paths: the Artificers path (Composite Body); the Warrior-Artificers path (Mithril Body); the Warriors path (Adamantium Body)
This system might be a bit clunky however and does not explain the change from Composite Body adequately (One could go with mystical rituals). Although they could gain AC like Mystics (Like Håvard mentioned).
Then there's the fact that in 3.5 Eberron the 'Forged can enhance their armor with magic. I don't know how this should be threated in Classical D&D
As mentioned by Cthulhudrew you could also use three Subraces, perhaps similar to the options given above.
Although IMO, the Warrior-Artificer option seems a bit uninspired somehow. Maybe if there were more ideas...
And while I'm at it: How would you convert the Artificer to Classical D&D? My first guess would be to base it on the Bard in some way. (Classical D&D did have a Bard class, right?)
Then there's the fact that in 3.5 Eberron the 'Forged can enhance their armor with magic. I don't know how this should be threated in Classical D&D
It should pretty much be similar to how they are handled in 3rd edition- that being, that they can be enchanted to have armor bonuses and abilities. The Rules Cyclopedia, among other places, has rules for enchanting arms and armor- the Warforged would have the benefit of being able to be directly thus enchanted.
And while I'm at it: How would you convert the Artificer to Classical D&D? My first guess would be to base it on the Bard in some way. (Classical D&D did have a Bard class, right?)
The Bard as originally introduced (IIRC) was the one that appears in AD&D 1st Edition, and was more of a Prestige Class. You had to have levels in Fighter and Thief, then gained Druidic abilities as Bards.
Basic D&D didn't have a Bard until Bruce Heard introduced a Bardic class in one of the Princess Ark articles.
An Artificer class would be interesting to convert. I'm not sure offhand how I'd do it. I'd probably keep it the same as far as their spells/day and spell lists, but the tricky part is handling their abilities. OD&D doesn't have XP costs for creating magic items; instead, enchanters gain XP for creating magic items (AD&D was similar- at least 2nd edition was).
Given that, I'd say that the Artificer's Craft Reserve ability should instead translate to some kind of increased GP cost reduction in the Enchantment process- just at a glance, a 1-1 conversion wouldn't be game breaking (although, given the costs associated with enchantments, perhaps it should be increased, in order to feel as if the Artificer is actually gaining a significant benefit). They should probably also get some Skill bonuses for certain abilities using the optional Skill system.
Any other ways this may be significant or helpfull?
It should pretty much be similar to how they are handled in 3rd edition- that being, that they can be enchanted to have armor bonuses and abilities. The Rules Cyclopedia, among other places, has rules for enchanting arms and armor- the Warforged would have the benefit of being able to be directly thus enchanted.
I guessed it would be something like that. So we have atleast one viable path of increasing 'Forged AC.
Now how do you think one should handle the body feats? Subraces/classes, magical rites that cause growth of armor or something else entirely?
Thanks for the info on the Bards. I knew about the AD&D 1'st Ed. Bard but not about the Basic Bards history.
*Snip about Magic Item Creation*
Sounds good, 'dunno about the actuall practical workings.
On Mystaran 'Forged:
What's the situation on Mystaras planar workings? I just thought that 'Forged could also come to Mystara via Spelljammer travel, gate in from Sigil or step in from the Shadow plane.
Although from what I know Blackmoor also sounds like a good candidate.
Other Eberron races:
Changelings are simple, they'd be based on the Thief class with some modifications. The Shapechange migth need some work.
Shifters would be Fighters and Druids (would have to take Cleric first, right?) if I'm to guess anything. Shifting mechanics work pretty much as it is IMO.
I don't know how to implement Kalashtar in Mystara fluffwise, but ruleswise I'd go with a modified Magic User. Or is there a Psionics system I don't know of?
I'm going to check my Dragon #181 when I get home (IIRC, the one with the Lupins/Rakasta classes), but an alternative to monster classes is to do Bruce's Rakasta/Lupin sort of version from that issue- where they can take Human classes, but suffer an initial XP penalty to their advancement.
(Personally, I never really liked that option, because it seemed to go against the entire concept of racial classes established since Basic- dwarves, elves, halflings, orcs, etc.- but it would certainly be a viable option).
I think its a question of doing it the one way or the other. As long as racial classes are used for the demihumans, the same should be done with monsterous humanoids (including the Lupins and Rakasta). If you use the RC rules allowing demihumans to access human classes though, then the same could be done with other races. It certainly would make it easier to come up
with new races...
For the Warforged though, I think the racial class is an ideal approach.
I don't know that I'd give them increasing ACs necessarily, since that's not really a part of the Warforged in 3rd Edition. I might instead do something similar to the Rakasta/Lupin subrace concept of Bruce Heard's (again, from Dragon magazine), and have different types of Warforged with different benefits (Adamantine Warforged get an AC benefit, but maybe a Dex penalty, etc.)
Yes, my reason for suggesting increasing armor was that it would let us avoid giving a too high AC at first level and yet keep it competitive at higher levels without involving enchantments or introducting anything resembling feats.
I can see benefits of going the other way though...
Håvard