Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jan 28, 2006 11:25:51	Quick question: I'm looking through the DS3.5 entry for kreen, and I'm not seeing any indication that the old item restrictions on boots, armor, bracers etc. still apply. Am I missing something, or is every item slot fair game now?
#2 ruhl-than_sage Jan 28, 2006 19:06:57	The official kreen got humanized to a large extent. They lost their thorax and regained the ability to climb. Personally I stick with the old kreen physiology including restrictions on items and inability to climb or swim. I think the official ruling is that they can use all types of magic items, but for me the physical/social restriction and issues of both kreen and half-giants help to balance otherwise more powerful races.
#3 megatherion Jan 28, 2006 20:16:20	Are kreen able to wear any body armor at all? I can't picture a kreen wearing a chitin plate, but I would still like to know the official stand on this. Needless to say the armor would be specialy crafted for that very kreen, so is this possible?
#4 ruhl-than_sage Jan 28, 2006 22:41:20	I know of no official prohibition on them wearing armor in 3.5. However the combination of a +4 to Dexterity and Natural Armor bonus of +3 gives them the equivilent of a free built in chain mail with 0 weight and 0 armor check penalty. They really don't need armor, and culturally wouldn't see any need for it.
#5 Zardnaar Jan 29, 2006 1:08:49	I just said to my 3.5 Kreen player that you can't buy armor sized for you and wopuldn't want to wear it anyways. 22 Dex, +3 natural armor and mage armor works. Sometimes barkskin as well. 23-25 AC buck naked. Character is a rogue with weapon finesse and multi attack feats. Kinda brutal sneak attacks.
#6 jon_oracle_of_athas Jan 29, 2006 4:18:32	From a mechanical perspective, kreen can wear armor in 3.5, but it costs four times the regular price because of their strange form.
#7 kalthandrix Jan 29, 2006 8:47:46	That would be scary- a thri-kreen in heavy full plate armor with multiattack and oversized two-weapon fighting (which allows you to wield a larger weapon in off-hand) so he could wield like four alhulak's at once and then throw in combat reflexes for fun :evillaugh And maybe those improved and greater attack of opportunity feats in the newest Dragon that allows you to make multiple attacks of opportunity on the same target in one round. SO with the 10' reach you would just have to move every round (dodge, mobility, and spring attack would cover that) and then just fight defensively until some sucker came at you and tear them apart.
#8 gilliard_derosan Jan 29, 2006 9:57:56	I would allow Kreen to wear some forms of armor, again at a x4 cost multiplier, maybe at an increased armor check penalty because of the conflicts between armor and hard chitin plates. But, a different option I think would be to allow them to take the Improved Natural Armor feat from monster manual. Would be appropriate I think. There are plenty of items that would increase their AC if they need it Considering that Thri-Kreen of Athas mentions how some use ritual scarring to create jagged edges and spikes, it should be possible for Kreen to agitate the plates around their arms/fingers enough to keep rings and bracers on. I would even go so far as to say it causes a few d6 damage to remove these items, since they have to break off chitin to do so. Ultimately, you (or your DM if you are not) needs to decide if it would be too over powering to allow Kreen to wear these things.
#9 kalthandrix Jan 29, 2006 11:05:03	It is also not hard to imagine that the Kreen Empire has developed special forms of heavy armor for elite, heavy infantry that would not drastically hinder them. And do not forget that they would also have developed some magical/psionic items that would also increase their AC- like the bracers of the spiked carapace I made.
#10 huntercc Jan 29, 2006 11:10:37	From a mechanical perspective, kreen can wear armor in 3.5, but it costs four times the regular price because of their strange form. Does it say that about the cost in the latest DS 3.5 pdf file? I can't seem to find it...
#11 squidfur- Jan 29, 2006 19:50:44	Does it say that about the cost in the latest DS 3.5 pdf file? I can't seem to find it... Yes it does, in the equipment section, about midway down.
#12 ruhl-than_sage Jan 30, 2006 7:12:49	It is also not hard to imagine that the Kreen Empire has developed special forms of heavy armor for elite, heavy infantry that would not drastically hinder them. And do not forget that they would also have developed some magical/psionic items that would also increase their AC- like the bracers of the spiked carapace I made. I can see that, just not so much for the relatively savage kreen of the tablelands.
#13 huntercc Jan 30, 2006 7:47:29	Yes it does, in the equipment section, about midway down. Either I'm blind or it's not there.... I'm looking in the version straight from athas.org, called ds3_r6.pdf, pages 49-58... I see nothing about costing more for kreen or half giants
#14 Kamelion Jan 30, 2006 10:29:32	I use the PHB armour rules for kreen, half-giants and other unusual creatures. The table on PHB p123 gives the relevant adjustments to price and weight. In the example of a kreen, armour would cost twice as much as a regular suit of armour, but weigh the same. Armour for a half-giant would both cost and weigh twice as much as regular armour.
#15 huntercc Jan 30, 2006 11:33:42	I use the PHB armour rules for kreen, half-giants and other unusual creatures... That sounds reasonable to me, I guess I never noticed that before. But seriously, I don't see any reference to this in the DS3.5 document. If it's not there, it should probably refer to the PHB or it should have a DS-specific rule. If it is there, then I'm just blind...
#16 ruhl-than_sage Jan 30, 2006 20:12:00	I use the PHB armour rules for kreen, half-giants and other unusual creatures. The table on PHB p123 gives the relevant adjustments to price and weight. In the example of a kreen, armour would cost twice as much as a regular suit of armour, but weigh the same. Armour for a half-giant would both cost and weigh twice as much as regular armour. When dealing with a creature that is twice as tall, but of equal proportions. Their volume is 8 times as much, and their surface area would be 4 times as much, thusly requireing 4 times as much material, if the armor is of the same thickness as the smaller creature. So the wieght of a half-giant's armor should be 4 times that of a humans. The relative carrying capacities of the average human vs. the average half-giant, or an exceptional human vs. an exceptional half-giant show you that the half-giants carrying capacity scales at a much greater rate than x2. So, even at a more realistic x4 weight the half-giant still has an carrying advantage to a similarly built human. Average Human Strength: 10 Carrying Capacity: 100 lbs Average Half-Giant Strength: 18 Carrying Capacity: 600 lbs Ratio: 1:6 Exceptional Human Strenght: 18 Carrying Capacity: 300 lbs Exceptional Half-Giant Strength: 26 Carrying Capacity: 1,840 lbs Ratio: ~1:6 (1:6 and 2/15ths to be exact) The cost would be at least 4 times as much and possibly even more for the added difficulty of forging a larger suit of armor. Though In my game, I simply have half-giants make armor and weaponry for other half-giants so a use a straight x4 to weight and cost. As for kreen, the difficulty of crafting a usable suit would be considerable and present very involved technical challanges to anyone who hasn't made one before, and knowledge of how to craft such armor would be unlikely to be useful in the future. I could see the cost being as much as x20 the normal price, x8 minimum.
#17 Kamelion Jan 30, 2006 20:15:43	When dealing with a creature that is twice as tall, but of equal proportions. Their volume is 8 times as much, and their surface area would be 4 times as much, thusly requireing 4 times as much material, if the armor is of the same thickness as the smaller creature. So the wieght of a half-giant's armor should be 4 times that of a humans. The relative carrying capacities of the average human vs. the average half-giant, or an exceptional human vs. an exceptional half-giant show you that the half-giants carrying capacity scales at a much greater rate than x2. So, even at a more realistic x4 weight the half-giant still has an carrying advantage to a similarly built human. Average Human Strength: 10 Carrying Capacity: 100 lbs Average Half-Giant Strength: 18 Carrying Capacity: 600 lbs Ratio: 1:6 Exceptional Human Strenght: 18 Carrying Capacity: 300 lbs Exceptional Half-Giant Strength: 26 Carrying Capacity: 1,840 lbs Ratio: ~1:6 (1:6 and 2/15ths to be exact) The cost would be at least 4 times as much and possibly even more for the added difficulty of forging a larger suit of armor. Though In my game, I simply have half-giants make armor and weaponry for other half-giants so a use a straight x4 to weight and cost. As for kreen, the difficulty of crafting a usable suit would be considerable and present very involved technical challanges to anyone who hasn't made one before, and knowledge of how to craft such armor would be unlikely to be useful in the future. I could see the cost being as much as x20 the normal price, x8 minimum. Yeah. I still use the PHB armour rules, though. :D
#18 ruhl-than_sage Jan 30, 2006 20:24:13	No need to let even a little bit of reality encroach upon you DS game hunh?
#19 Kamelion Jan 30, 2006 20:30:23	No need to let even a little bit of reality encroach upon you DS game hunh? Good heavens, whatever for?
#20 squidfur- Jan 30, 2006 20:39:38	Either I'm blind or it's not there.... I'm looking in the version straight from athas.org, called ds3_r6.pdf, pages 49-58... I see nothing about costing more for kreen or half giants Err , no actually you are not mistaken. I, somehow, read "pdf" as "SRD" in your question, so that is the doc. I refer too.
#21 jon_oracle_of_athas Feb 01, 2006 15:54:01	It's in the PHB, then. Maybe it should be in the DS 3.5 Core Rules as well.