Dungeon 131#- The Prince of Redhand. Yet another great module for The Age of Worms. Delightfully different. Once again, kudos to all involved.
My question.
Forgive me for dragging the "C" word into this, but we all know the Empire of Iuz pretty much invaded and annexed the Bandit Kingdoms (including Redhand and its capital of Alhaster) in the early 580's CY.
Not according to this module, which mentions only one spy of Iuz gathering information for her evil master "should he ever decide to move" against Prince Zeech.
Not let me be clear. I understand why they did this! Things are complicated enough in this arc without introducing an "Iuz angle" which would forever brand The Age of Worms as too Greyhawk-specific. I am frankly amazed that this module contains as many Greyhawk references as it does; far more than the Spire of Long Shadows, which itself apparently sent the WotC suits into such a hissy fit.
Again- I have no problem with the module as written.
However, for those of us who have been following c-c-c-anon (sorry about that
), what does one do? How can you modify the chapter to fit? Zeech believes himself (erroneously) to be the son of Hextor, who is the approved state-deity here. The Blessed Angels (erinyes)- lawful evil abounds! The Old One would never tolerate any of it!Can this module be molded to fit the LGG, or is this but a pipe dream?
Kar
The Bandit Kingdoms entry states:
Though the forces of Iuz now occupy and administer much of the lands of the Bandit Kingdoms, some old political divisions remain, even if entire populations do not. Some states here have survived or even returned to life after Iuz’s conquest of this region, adding chaos to a very tumultuous empire
Thus, we already know Iuz's rule isn't absolute.
Furthermore, it adds (about Redhand):
“Prince” Zeech, an effete renegade Shield Lands lord who broke with his nation in 577, swiftly allied himself and his forces with Iuz in 583. The alliance saved his realm from destruction, though the old lords and soldiers of the realm chafed at taking orders from half-orcs and worse. Redhand’s capital is at Alhaster, but Zeech must report to the clerics of Iuz at Balmund, which he hates. Deadly conflicts between “Reyhu” orcs in the north and Redhand humans in the south are becoming common. Now that most of the Old One’s demonic officers are gone from the land, many believe Zeech and his men are set for a rebellion. Word of this surely has reached Dorakaa, and all eyes watch the debased prince with grotesque curiosity, guessing at his fate should he defy Iuz.
So, the situation is as chaotic as can be in the (former) Bandit Kingdoms, with Iuz's forces holding the upper hand only as long as they show up and manage to deal with rebellious local leaders.
Given Iuz is more interested in Tenh (for the precious metals, the food, the slaves, and the prospective recruits) AND given the Bandit Kingdoms have always been a hotbed of trouble, it's not surprising to see Iuz's gaze drawn to other far more dangerous locations (the Furyondy border, the Vesve, and the reclaimed Shield Lands to name but a few) to his empire.
Knowing what we know, isn't it obvious Zeech would try his darnest to find new allies & source of power in order to free himself (and his city) from the Old One influence? The Church of Hextor and a few devils would be a first step. Allying himself with the cult of Kyuss would be a significant second one (although readers of Dungeon #131 are aware of how deluded the Prince of Redhand is in that regard..)
Seems perfectly logical to me. Iuz simply can't spare the resources to deal with this right now (perhaps because he underestimates what's happening too). Thus the presence of only a few spies.
Furthermore, if it's the "devils" part that bothers you, you need to understand Iuz would probably be concerned if servants of Asmodeus or one of the Nine showed up at his doorstep. But fiendish servants of Hextor (a greater deity which could crush Iuz like a bug) are another matter entirely. As long as priests of the latter don't try to convert "citizens" of Iuz's empire and devils stay confined in Redhand, why bother?
The Old One has already his hands full dealing with renegade minions, Hierarch in-hiding, stubborn lich, etc... (not to mention rival demon lords)
Its not hard to imagine Iuz is more concerned with events closer to home rather than an area of bandits and downtrodden peasants. When the cats away...and all that. I imagine Zeech eventually stopped giving reports in Balmund and Iuz's priests had more important things to deal with. The spy is probably a recent event to see what he has been up to since his last report.
Given Iuz is more interested in Tenh (for the precious metals, the food, the slaves, and the prospective recruits) AND given the Bandit Kingdoms have always been a hotbed of trouble, it's not surprising to see Iuz's gaze drawn to other far more dangerous locations (the Furyondy border, the Vesve, and the reclaimed Shield Lands to name but a few) to his empire.
But the LGG also states that the land "is now firmly claimed by Iuz." It's still undevastated territory (which means people and natural resources) that is of great strategic value to his Empire.
As long as priests of the latter don't try to convert "citizens" of Iuz's empire and devils stay confined in Redhand, why bother?
Yes, but that's exactly what they are doing. 'Ol Zeechy is setting himself up as (basically) a god, and the Church of Hextor is throwing their full support behind him. Statues of himself abound everywhere in Alhaster. Not even lip service is apparently paid to Iuz. I just find it hard that an actual deity is going to ignore one of his own (in theory) servants setting himself up on equal footing.
The module makes it quite clear that Redhand has never fallen to Iuz's forces. Zeech seceded from the Shield Lands 20 years ago, and that's that.
I'm trying to work it in that Zeech overthrew Iuz's local rulers (or at least slipped under their radar), but some things still just don't gel with this. I need to look at the module again...
Thank you all for your response, by the way!
But the LGG also states that the land "is now firmly claimed by Iuz." It's still undevastated territory (which means people and natural resources) that is of great strategic value to his Empire.
Strategic value, yes, because it borders Tenh, Urnst, Nyrond, and the Shield Lands. Economic value, not that much. The fact that citizens of the Bandit Kingdoms turned to raiding other countries long ago is explained by the fact that they have few natural resources of their own (certainly few farmers), except for some mines (but those are difficult to access & work).
Think of the BK as a territory Iuz needed to claim to go further east (and south-east) + as a recruiting area for (mostly human) mercenaries.
They won't bring many slaves, taxes, or raw materials but are great as a "buffer" state between Iuz's central land and dangerous nations bent on destroying him.
Plus Iuz is a deity of Chaos, so the permanent chaotic state of the BK must please him (annoy him too though, there is no pleasing a demi-god..)
What Iuz want is:
a) to be "officially" the lord and master of these lands
b) IF possible, to become the "main" deity worshipped there (but he knows full well the natives have already deities better adapted to their "needs")
c) to be able to recruit troops for his army
d) to receive "stuff" he needs from Tenh without hindrance
Conditions a, c, and d don't necessitate him to be really the master everywhere 24/7, just someone the locals fear enough not to anger. Who cares if Zeech calls himself "king of the hill" in Redhand as long as the man doesn't say it too loudly?
Condition b is for the far-future, once his conquest of the northern Flanaess is complete.
Yes, but that's exactly what they are doing. 'Ol Zeechy is setting himself up as (basically) a god, and the Church of Hextor is throwing their full support behind him. Statues of himself abound everywhere in Alhaster. Not even lip service is apparently paid to Iuz. I just find it hard that an actual deity is going to ignore one of his own (in theory) servants setting himself up on equal footing.
The module makes it quite clear that Redhand has never fallen to Iuz's forces. Zeech seceded from the Shield Lands 20 years ago, and that's that.
So what? Iuz isn't worshipped in most of his empire. Sure, most pay him lips service when his priests are around but as soon as they are out of hearing range, they turn back to Hextor, Nerull, etc...
The thing is that the Old One doesn't have the resources right now to "force" himself on the natives as their sole deity. So, he has to be happy with "forced respect" and an official "numero uno" status instead.
There are many examples - even back in the WGR5 accessory - of places where he isn't worshipped at all within the outer regions of his empire. Heck! Some orcs of the Vesve (almost "next door" to his center of power) even fight actively against his (religious) rule!
There is even the example of a priest of Iuz trying to create his own independant state! Let's not forget this is a CE deity we're talking about. Backstabbing, in-fighting, treason, lies, and nefarious plots are a daily routine for him. He only gets angry about it if he feels like it or if somebody really managed to ruin his plans.
Again, I wasn't surprised at all. Now, if Zeech had been described as trying to conquer and unite actively the BK to oppose Iuz directly, THEN - yes - he should have been in serious trouble. But he isn't there.. yet
That being said, Iuz is the official state religion of the empire. It is specifically noted in the LGG that he aggressively suppresses all others. But the empire is a large place that he can barely keep together as it is. The homelands around Dorakaa could be kept entirely devoted to Iuz. In a far flung place like Redhand, he is satisfied as long as it is not in open rebellion. Had his fiends not been expunged by the Crook he may have been able realize his dream of one empire under one god. He just doesn't have the resources to carry that on now.
The LGG could be one adventurer's perception and the recent adventures in the Bandit Kingdoms via the AOW adventures is another.
If Iuz was able to get complete control of his lands then who is to say that other empires couldn't become absolute also. Iuz is powerful yes, all seeing... all knowing... absolutely not.
Look at other adventures involving Iuz Agents. He is always sending out lackeys to do his bidding or gather him info. He has power but not knowledge. I mean anybody that would decide to give magic abilities to a Toad, to make a magical throne for himself is gotta be missing some details someplace else in his empire. Seriously, Zeech probably got away with his, "I am the son of Hextor" shlock while Iuz was busy playing with Ole Bog One Eye or whatever that toads name was....
:D
But these kinds of arguements are probably why WOTC doesn't want to print any Greyhawk materials.... because we finally get some support and then the complaining starts.... man, I just wish we could all enjoy our setting, take what we get, adapt for our own campaigns, and smile at the beautiful artwork and maps and greyhawkness we are receiving.
The LGG speaks of Zeech having overweening ambition - and claiming to be the Son of Hextor is pretty darn ambitious. Even so - he's small beer as far as Iuz is concerned. As long as he isn't a direct threat to Iuz and his plans, then he can be tolerated - until he steps out of line - in which case he could be crushed.
As for Iuz having firm control of the Bandit Lands - there's firm control and firm control. For example - there's a statelet of heretic Pholtines over near the Phostwood that Iuz never conquered. Meanwhile, Stoink wisely rolled over and gave lip service (like Zeech) and enjoys wide autonomy. I see Iuz's hold of some of the Bandit Kingdoms as being like the control that the French king would have had over some of his vassals in the middle ages - as long as they pay lip service, pay their taxes and don't openly oppose you - then you leave them alone and deal with other threats. The Empire of Iuz is less of a police state and more of a chaotic and sprawling medieval kingdom.
Also - Iuz may have bigger things to do than deal with Zeech. Vecna is one. Becoming a god is another (and if you follow LG, playing with the Codex of Infinate Planes is still another).
P.
Economic value, not that much
Well, Redhand is the only Bandit Kingdom with access to the Nyr Dyv. The Old One may not be much for economics himself, but that alone gives Redhand (and by extension, Zeech) a leg up on all his BK competition.
...as long as they pay lip service, pay their taxes and don't openly oppose you...
I gathered the impression from Prince that Zeech isn't doing any of those.
I know, I know. Iuz has scads of more important things to occupy his attention. It just seems odd that his only representative at the Alhaster state banquet has to hide that very fact when she could easily spit it in Zeech's face (so to speak) and get away with it.
...we finally get some support and the complaining starts...
You've lost me here, completely, Scoti. I've bent over backwards to say that I have no problem with The Prince of Redhand at all. I'm on record numerous places as saying how grateful I am to Erik Mona and the staff and contributers at Dragon and Dungeon who have been giving us loads of Greyhawk goodness! I was merely asking for some logistical help in reconciling what I thought were a few problems. I'm not losing any sleep over it, and I suggest no else does, either.
Thanks again for all your help!
Happy Gaming
Well, Redhand is the only Bandit Kingdom with access to the Nyr Dyv. The Old One may not be much for economics himself, but that alone gives Redhand (and by extension, Zeech) a leg up on all his BK competition.
Stoink has one too, albeit through the river.
It just seems odd that his only representative at the Alhaster state banquet has to hide that very fact when she could easily spit it in Zeech's face (so to speak) and get away with it.
Get away, not likely.
Iuz would get a report some months later stating that his "spy" was accidentally killed by Redhand's "angels of justice" because, say, he looked exactly like a known criminal. Too bad Zeech hadn't been warned about who he really was because, then, he would have been able to clarify this tragic misunderstanding. Yep, tragic, really..
The chaos angle, Iuz priesthood is deeply chaotic given this make-up they would at best make poor administrators and occasionally (like Iuz himself) purposefully encourage anarchy within their fiefs simply to pacify some inner need even if it harms their position overall.
Also one must remember the Bandit Kingdom region is hardly a plum assignment for advancement, it is a backwater hardly a place to find the best and brightest. The ambitious and competent would be fighting for places in Tenh or the Furyondian / Shield Land border as warfare success would bring advancement, in contrast the BK would be viewed at best as "garrison duty" fit only for the mediocre if not a place for the inept.
BK is probably full of priests that are bitter because they are viewed as "marginal" taking it out on those around them until they can get transferred or fearful that the posting shows disfavor and are desperate to cover up any failures that would endanger them further.
Given this probable pool of priests it isn't hard to imagine a priest bitter or fearful allowing himself to be convinced to turn a blind eye rather then report another failure to his superiors especially from a lackluster region like BK, only place worse is a transfer to the barrens!! (think German WW2 - Russian front threat).
As for lip service etc - the LGG says Iuz is giving Zeech enough rope to hang himself. The whole banquet/Kyuss thing is just another few feet of rope. Iuz or the Boneheart are likely waiting for Zeech to make some public act of defiance so that they can roll in, devestate the place and make an example of old Zeech to the rest of the Bandit Lords. Until that time - he's small beer.
Remember also - that Zeech raided High Mardreth in the County Urnst in 591 CY - so it's not like he's not completely ignoring Iuz's interests.
As for economy - Redhand has ports on Nyr Dyv, yes - but who's going to trade with Iuz or one of his minions? The Slavelords perhaps. Disreputable Rhennee also - but if don't see Alhaster as being Iuz's Rotterdam (Stoink is a better candidate). Also depending on how you see the Shield Lands recovering their lands, there's Admundfort and (IIRC) Axeport.
The Bandit Lands in general appear to be very poor in terms of minerals and agriculture - otherwise one or other of the petty kings would have got the resources together to found a stable kingdom there. So economically, they're not overwhelmingly important.
And at the end of the day - Iuz doesn't appear to be a control freak tyrant who crushes any whisper of dissent against him. He seems to have a pretty hands off attitude to the micromangement of the Empire - again we can only assume, because he's got his eyes on a different prize.
Rich