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I'm seeking feedback for this new magic item. Its to be used as a basis for PeaceBringer's artifact.
Tell me what you think, don't be afraid. :D
Do you see problems with the mechanics, limitations in its use, loopholes?
Would you prefer the items did something else than what they currently do? Or do it differently?
Defiling Engine: These devices are tall contraptions centered around a basalt pole as tall as an elf, with fused defiler bones circling and twisting around it like a constricting snake, while several bony protusions extend from its midsection and arc upward and out like so many branches from a dead tree. All engines are topped with a large obsidian orb, with several smaller ones embedded in a spiral around the pole. Major engines boast an additional large orb embedded in the bone, replacing one of the smaller orbs near the top of the pole. The defiling engines were perfectionned during the Cleansing Wars by the very armies that used them, but are no longer used and created today by those living under the rule of the sorcerer-monarchs.
Defiling engines hold the essence of a raze feat. All the engines described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws attacks of opportunity). A wizard may only use one defiling engine on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine an engine with raze feats possessed by the user of the engine. A defiling engine cannot be combined with the raze feat it is named after.
To be used an engine must first be planted in the ground (a full-round action), after wich it defiles the 5-ft. square of ground it occupies. A wizard wishing to benefit from the item’s effects must attune himself to it by touching any part of the engine (a move-equivalent action) afterwards. A maximum of five characters can benefit from the effects of an engine, and do so as long as they stay within 30 feet of the engine; attuned characters that move further than 30 feet must attune themselves again with the engine to benefit from its effects. All attuned characters are unaffected by the defiling radius of the engine as if the engine possessed the Controlled Raze feat. Each arcane spell cast by the attuned character causes the engine to further defile the ground around itself, increasing the radius of its ashen circle by another 5 ft.
Possession of a defiling engine does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat.
Minor and Major Defiling Engines: Minor defiling engines confer the use of the raze feat it is named after, while major defiling engines increase the effects of those feats.
Defiling Engine, Agonizing: The user of the minor version of this engine can cast spells that are affected as if by the Agonizing Radius feat, while a user of the major version sees the penalties from the feat increase to -2.
Strong (no school); CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, Agonizing Radius, creator must be a defiler; Price xx,xxx Cp (minor), xx,xxx Cp (major); Weight 250 lb.
Defiling Engine, Destructive: The user of the minor version of this engine can cast spells that are affected as if by the Destructive Raze feat, while a user of the major version sees the bonus damage from the feat increase to +2 per damage die.
Strong (no school); CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, Destructive Raze, creator must be a defiler; Price xx,xxx Cp (minor), xx,xxx Cp (major); Weight 250 lb.
Defiling Engine, Distance: The user of the minor version of this engine can cast spells that are affected as if by the Distance Raze feat, while a user of the major version can now move the center of his defiling circle 20 feet per caster level.
Strong (no school); CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, Distance Raze, creator must be a defiler; Price xx,xxx Cp (minor), xx,xxx Cp (major); Weight 250 lb.
Defiling Engine, Exterminating: The user of the minor version of this engine can cast spells that are affected as if by the Exterminating Raze feat, while a user of the major version inflicts on plants 8 points of damage per spell level.
Strong (no school); CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, Exterminating Raze, creator must be a defiler; Price xx,xxx Cp (minor), xx,xxx Cp (major); Weight 250 lb.
Defiling Engine, Fast: The user of the minor version of this engine can cast spells that are affected as if by the Fast Raze feat, while a user of the major version sees the caster level bonus from the feat increase to +2 (increasing his defiling radius by 10 ft.).
Strong (no school); CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, Fast Raze, creator must be a defiler; Price xx,xxx Cp (minor), xx,xxx Cp (major); Weight 250 lb.
Consider the deployment. An army in front, the half giants deploy the engine for the royal defilers in the back, since they're artillery. Then the defilers start using agonising and while inflicting damage on the enemy, they agonize their own troops. And concerning exterminating, i can't see a practical use for it except to deploy in into a forest with the sole purpose of destroying it utterly. And if there's an army defending the forest such deployment would be fatal for both the engine and defilers, since the forest guard would most definetly be guerilla capable of destroying such an instalation in a raid.
IF those two could somehow be linked with distance raze they would become VERY potent.
Or they should have controled installed in by default to protect their troops, but still this is only a half-solution usable only if the entire army is destroyed and the defilers use the engine to protect their own hides. at which time archers could quite easely take them down.
Edit: ...so fix those two with distance and add in the efficient one, which will help if a LOT of spellcasting is done on a relatively small lush terrain.
The description says you can only use one engine at a time, so if you had more than one you're attuned to you can only use one of them per round.
Mmm, maybe a different direction haught to be taken for the engine. What about...each one provides the effects of Efficient Raze and Distance Raze, which would make cast spells more powerful than preserver spells and ensure the ashen circle is behind enemy lines.
I could also mention that any other raze feats besides those two can be used in conjunction with the engine, as long as the user has access to them.
I still want to keep the effect that the engine defiles around itself too, so something ought to be done about that. Maybe only one user at a time is permitted to use the engine, and he needs to touch the item to do so. I could say the user is immune to the effects of the engine's defiling radius. That radius could increase by one 5 ft. per each spell cast by the user, that would explain where the extra power (free use of Efficient Raze and Distance Raze) is coming from.
Whatcha think?
Squidfur?
The Life Leech artifact is now taking form with the defiling engine as its design base. Its gonna kick some butt!
Defiling Engine, Minor: These devices are composed of a tapering basalt pole as tall as an elf, with fused defiler bones circling and twisting around it like a constricting snake. An engine is topped with a large obsidian orb, with several smaller ones of decreasing size embedded in a spiral around the pole. Defiling engines were perfected during the Cleansing Wars by the very armies that used them, but how to create them is knowledge now restricted to the lackeys of the sorcerer-monarchs.
Defiling engines hold the essence of several raze feats. An engine is use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws attacks of opportunity). A spell cast by a wizard making use of an engine is treated as if the caster had the Efficient Raze and Distance Raze feats. (If the caster already possesses those two feats their effects do not stack.)
To be used an engine must first be planted in the ground. (In a combat situation a Strength check against DC 18 is required to plant (or uproot) an engine, and requires a full-round action.) The same round it is planted an engine defiles the 5-ft. square of ground it occupies. Afterwards up to three wizards can benefit from the engine’s effects and must touch the device while casting to do so; wizards casting spells while making use of the engine treat the device as a focus component. Each spell cast by a wizard touching the engine causes it to further defile the ground around itself, increasing the radius of its ashen circle by another 5 ft. All characters touching the engine while a spell is being cast are unaffected by the engine’s defiling radius, as if protected by the Controlled Raze feat.
Strong (no school); CL xx; Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be a defiler; Price xx,xxx Cp; Weight 200 lb.
Defiling Engine, Major: A major engine looks like its minor counterpart but boasts another large orb embedded in the pole, replacing one of the smaller orbs near the top. A major defiling engine functions as a minor defiling engine, with the addition that the caster can also make use of the Destructive Raze feat. (If the caster already possesses that feat its effects do not stack.)
Strong (no school); CL xx; Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be a defiler; Price xx,xxx Cp; Weight 200 lb.
If I used Exterminating engine it would be to this effect: A patch of forest (or a large one) is in front of my army and it's defended by crazy Halfling Man-eaters. Again, I start fireball (for example) bombardment on the forest to burn it, while again relocating the raze with the distant raze feat into the heart of the forest where I assume the enemy troops are. As a result not only would the forest burn but it would also wither to ash leaving the halflings without any cover at all. Then and only then would I send the half-giants in.
efficient by default - good
distance by default - even better
The fact that both my and engine defilement circles occurs at the engine and in front where the enemy is doesn't bother me at all, in fact that's exactly what i need. Where's ash there's no roots for the entangle spells to catch my troops or myself.
I think you did it ol pal, it looks much better. Can you fuse your corrections with the description in the first post?
This artefact looks worthy for El'Corhial's destruction... and its SotL's sanity.
Should be able to send you more info tomorrow Penn.
Since they are after all artillery, have the major version include a firing platform on top and i would also put a half wall for cover 50% to protect against archers.
You could deploy one engine with a half giant for transport and/or deployment and 3 defilers the half giant would also serve as a last resort defense for the defilers.
The platform would give the defilers an advantage of being able to see from a better vantage point for LOS and tactics.
I have an idea for an alteration of at least the major engine.
Since they are after all artillery, have the major version include a firing platform on top and i would also put a half wall for cover 50% to protect against archers.
LOL! Yeah, sure, I'll add lasers too....no, make that catapults that fire laser-shooting penguins!
No, seriously, a protective structure could be erected around an engine, providing cover and concealment to the defilers within, but this would go against the main advantage of the engine: it can move around the battlefield without much trouble.
You could deploy one engine with a half giant for transport and/or deployment and 3 defilers the half giant would also serve as a last resort defense for the defilers.
Engines are - now a days - carried on the sides of inix howdhas, all bundled up in rope to increase their hardness during transport. Before battle, soldiers unload the engines from their leather and wooden racks and carry them - using wooden grasping tools - to their designated locations away from troop concentrations. A hole is dug in the ground and the soldiers lower the engine in before removing the rope.
A small number of soldiers stay near to protect the defilers, or one in three defiler has for a job to protect their location.
If the army commander wishes the engines to be moved during battle (so as to take advantage of the range of Distance Raze, for example), a half-giant is dispatched to beat the DC 18 Strength check and haul the 200 pounds to its new location.
Can you fuse your corrections with the description in the first post?
I leave the original material as is, to show the community how their help can influence development of an idea.
Megatherion, are you sure you read corretly the new version? There no longer is an agonizing version... ;)
Megatherion, are you sure you read corretly the new version? There no longer is an agonizing version... ;)
If I understood correctly, now an engine does distance+efficient, and all the other razes need to be supplied by the defiler? Except for the major that gives those two+destructive? Simpler, cleaner and not at all bad. If a defiler has agonizing, he will agonise the enemy forces while catapulting cows. ;)
Amen to the cows!
"Jesus Chroist!"
LOL! Yeah, sure, I'll add lasers too....no, make that catapults that fire laser-shooting penguins!
No, seriously, a protective structure could be erected around an engine, providing cover and concealment to the defilers within, but this would go against the main advantage of the engine: it can move around the battlefield without much trouble.
QUOTE]
II don't see how a solid top and perhaps 50 extra pounds would make it impossible to move around a battle field. In a world of magic and psioncs setting one of these up would most likey not be done by hand. So the major one when deployed takes up a 10 foot square when moving it it would be simpler to cast a levitate from a scroll than to get the half giant to pick it up and possibly break it since apparently they are so fragile that they must be specially secured to transport. Why not just have a psion adjust its hardness instead. i'm sure you probably find that hilarious as well, but personally i think casters have capability to be self sufficient in an army and should not have to rely on a bumbling half giant to handle the one item they have to make them the most important group in the army.
Making it have a solid platform top and maybe a 3 or 4 foot tall wall, possibly this could be removed for long transport or designed to fold up to the engine, could hold 4 defiles 3 for artillery and one to move it during battle. But I have a better idea keep your tired old ways and your half giants.
I 'll make a flying platform from the psionic orbs for ships that someone came up with on this board and load up 10 casters 5 psions and as much contact poison as i can get a hold of and fly over your army with fireballs, cones of cold, and everything else i can throw at your little army throwing anti magic fields up around your little poles and your defilers and dump the poison on the lot of them and your little laser-shooting penguins. What is left will easily be cleaned up by my army.
-snip-
i'm sure you probably find that hilarious as well
-snip-
:D You have to admit the whole concept of building a structure on top of a magic item invokes images of wookee and ewok contraptions!
I don't see how a solid top and perhaps 50 extra pounds would make it impossible to move around a battle field. In a world of magic and psioncs setting one of these up would most likey not be done by hand.
The simplest and cheapest way is the best. Building initial ramparts around the location of the engine, or puting it within a ditch, ensures it will be protected for the start of the battle.
When war engines, cadres of archers, and the like start to target the engines, they must be easily moved out of harm's way. 200 pounds is relatively easy to move, and DC 18 is relatively easy to achieve.
After it is moved the engine can be protected by soldiers equipped with tower shields.
-snip-
than to get the half giant to pick it up and possibly break it since apparently they are so fragile that they must be specially secured to transport.
-snip-
That description of mine was fluff. Each item, unless its an armor or weapon, will be hauled around wrapped in protective cloth, in a chest or basket, etc...
Only fools travel with unprotected items, since they can be broken like any mundane item. Magic and psionic items can turn the tide of battle, so protecting them is a priority.
Why not just have a psion adjust its hardness instead. i'm sure you probably find that hilarious as well, but personally i think casters have capability to be self sufficient in an army and should not have to rely on a bumbling half giant to handle the one item they have to make them the most important group in the army.
Albeit this is true of D&D in general, there is very little magical aid provided to armies in the novels and short stories of the Dark Sun setting. I recall a moving magical wall of darkness, an immense protective shield meant to stop spells, and an invisible sorcerer-queen.
As such, I imagine that the high-magic approach to battlefield magic is not that present on Athas.
There are few wizards or even templars in a given army, and they are busy providing intel, healing the fallen, and blasting the enemy, not moving stones around.
But I have a better idea keep your tired old ways and your half giants.
...
I'll make a flying platform from the psionic orbs for ships that someone came up with on this board and load up 10 casters 5 psions and as much contact poison as i can get a hold of and fly over your army with fireballs, cones of cold, and everything else i can throw at your little army throwing anti magic fields up around your little poles and your defilers and dump the poison on the lot of them and your little laser-shooting penguins. What is left will easily be cleaned up by my army.
Sure, do as you like.
[fun]Oh, and stop making fun of laser-shooting penguins, they are a staple of Dark Sun! Don't you know they are the vanguard force of the Messenger, that huge halfling spaceship? Anyways, its all being controlled behind the scenes by Lord Doomspike and his vast network of cacti spies! Where have you been all along man?![/fun]
I thought that the defiler engine should be sunk into the ground. Perhaps it could be something like a giant drill bit with Penn's aforementioned trappings (obsidian ball + defiler bones) at the top. Once it reaches a certain depth, the engine makes direct contact with the life force imbuing that particular area.
Then the defilers start casting their spells and all hell breaks loose. For added dramatic effect, you could even have blood pour from the ground with each defiling spell cast.
I like this idea because it would give the engine a little bit more vunerability. Plus it could provide a little bit more of a dramatic effect as far as the weapon is concerned: e.g. the defenders of a castle scramble to disable the half-giant team of borers before the engine is in place and disaster strikes.
Just thought I'd throw the idea out.
itf
[fun]Oh, and stop making fun of laser-shooting penguins, they are a staple of Dark Sun! Don't you know they are the vanguard force of the Messenger, that huge halfling spaceship? Anyways, its all being controlled behind the scenes by Lord Doomspike and his vast network of cacti spies! Where have you been all along man?![/fun]
Hey one of my friends has a Sorcerer-King named John Doomskull...are they related? :P
One thing I can't understand, though....can it be moved around with a standard action or not?
Why not have it on wheels and let it be dragged by one Half-Giant? So there would be a platform around the device and a lever someone would pull to plant the device in the ground. (You probably don't understand a word I'm saying :D ) There would be a spear-like obsidian tip on the bottom of the device, so it would just impale itself in the ground.
And the reason for it not being produced anymore, would be that it was made to use on the grasslands that dominated the landscape on Athas, in the green age? So it's pretty useless in the stoney barrens and salt flats that Athas is today. Just a (complicated) thought....
Why not have it on wheels and let it be dragged by one Half-Giant? So there would be a platform around the device and a lever someone would pull to plant the device in the ground. (You probably don't understand a word I'm saying :D ) There would be a spear-like obsidian tip on the bottom of the device, so it would just impale itself in the ground.
And the reason for it not being produced anymore, would be that it was made to use on the grasslands that dominated the landscape on Athas, in the green age? So it's pretty useless in the stoney barrens and salt flats that Athas is today. Just a (complicated) thought....
This is a very good idea if I may say so. Put the spiky thing onto a wheeled cart with a hole in it and simply lower in into the ground. On the cart there can be two or three seats for the defilers, (hey, they want to sit!) and a lever that a strong mul, not necessarily a half-giant, would operate (to rise and lower the engine).
The engine is already tapering, as stated in its description, and as such is a giant needle. I do not mention it but its surface can be arranged in any way, including a slight corckscrew action added to its tapered end so that the person(s) beating the DC 18 Strength check can take a full round to twist the thing into the ground.
Maybe to make it more realistic I should say it takes 1 minute to plant, or I should keep the 1 round duration but say it requires at least two people so as to make fans understand one person twists the other digs. Or something.
A feat is SOOOOO important and to have an Item that grants it seems demeaning to someone who paid for it.
As for Artifacts I am firm beliver in two truths, Artifacts have no price because they are too powerfull to be bought or sold (per phb) and artifacts are epic items, therefore they were created by an epic caster.
So my humbol sugjestion is make them artifacts with no cost, and describe who made them, and how they were lost...
BTW The firefox update broke my spellchecker.
.Out of the top of my head, without trying (oh the pain!) to check the pricing guidelines and find similar items for comparative pricing, these things will cost anything from 50k to 150k each, and probably be CL 17th like the metamagic rods (the main feat granting magic items out there).
Thanks Kam for the praise!
- Its not x uses per day but use-activated
- It functions for up to 3 users, not just 1
- Its unwieldly for anything but a half-giant wizard, and requires a heavy crodlu or inix to haul around
- Its feats are not metamagic feats, their use is tactical rather than brute augmentation of a spell's potency, unlike maximize or empower
Damn! Well, it is artillery.
I'll let it affect 3 users unless it causes the price to skyrocket.
Imagine you had a +5 sword, costing normally 50k. Then it can be split by a command word into 3 +5 swords which all do same damage as the original one. What's it's price? 150k? 250k?
Don't look at the physical problems as at a down-side to the cost. Only focus on what it does, and leave the description out of it. the fact it's 200lbs heavy means nothing if you have a single half-giant, and the strategy is worth everything.
So it doesn't get "driven" into the ground or slammed -just corkscrewed into place. This design would be mobile to a degree, but it would also be huge, bulky and awkward. Plus it would take a while to set up.
However (I am not a military man) I believe that lots of modern artillery is the same way. You wheel it into place, anchor it into the ground, then you have to calibrate it, and finally you are ready to fire.
It's a great idea though, Penn. How did you come up with it?
itf
It's a great idea though, Penn. How did you come up with it?
LOL! I no longer have any idea! Can anyone help me on this?
The inix howdah sucks, I know. And I want the engine to be carried vertically, pinched between wooden bits on the howdah. That way a single rope can be loosened and the engine slided off its rack.
The wooden mancatcher-like devices, meant to help carry the engine, appear to be suited for 4 people, but that's because I'm no artist! Imagine the devices are closer to each end of the engine. The two men carrying the engine face each other and one walks backwards.
When they reach their destination the man lifting the tapered end lowers it into a hole in the ground that a third man dug while the engine was moved. As the engine is straigthened up, the two men grasp their wooden devices and start screwing it in the ground.
That's about it. A half-giant can do all that easily and fast enough to be doable in a combat situtation.
A spell cast by a wizard making use of an engine is treated as if the caster had the Efficient Raze and Distance Raze feats.
Very cool like I said before.
Can a defiler use one of their own raze feats when casting a spell as well? For instance, usig the distant raze fom the defiling engine and their own personal aganizing radius feats at the same time.
One other thing- just reading it, and knowing how defiling works, shouldn't the radius of defiled land state it defiles a 5' radius per level of spell being cast? Right now it says, "Each spell cast by a wizard touching the engine causes it to further defile the ground around itself, increasing the radius of its ashen circle by another 5 ft." Or is the 5' only thing a special feature of the defiling engine
One other thing- just reading it, and knowing how defiling works, shouldn't the radius of defiled land state it defiles a 5' radius per level of spell being cast? Right now it says, "Each spell cast by a wizard touching the engine causes it to further defile the ground around itself, increasing the radius of its ashen circle by another 5 ft." Or is the 5' only thing a special feature of the defiling engine
I'm not an expert in english, many can attest to that, but isn't it clear that "itself" refers to an object, not a person? Thus it refers to the engine, in opposition to the wizard, which would have been refered to as "himself".
If anyone knows a better english to fix this phrase's ambiguity, show me what you got.
(The engine, when planted, defiles 5 feet, and then another 5 feet whenever a spell is cast by a wizard touching the engine. The extra energy the engine collects by itself with those additional 5 feets allows the wizard to benefit from the two raze feats. In effect, there are two ashen circles formed at each casting of a spell: the circle created by the wizard's casting (and probably projected away using the Distance Raze feat so it can be used as a weapon, i.e. the main reason for using the engine in the first place) and the circle created by the engine around itself.)
I'm not an expert in english, many can attest to that, but isn't it clear that "itself" refers to an object, not a person? Thus it refers to the engine, in opposition to the wizard, which would have been refered to as "himself".
If anyone knows a better english to fix this phrase's ambiguity, show me what you got.
(The engine, when planted, defiles 5 feet, and then another 5 feet whenever a spell is cast by a wizard touching the engine. The extra energy the engine collects by itself with those additional 5 feets allows the wizard to benefit from the two raze feats. In effect, there are two ashen circles formed at each casting of a spell: the circle created by the wizard's casting (and probably projected away using the Distance Raze feat so it can be used as a weapon, i.e. the main reason for using the engine in the first place) and the circle created by the engine around itself.)
Oh I see now- maybe making it read something like 'it defiles 5' in addition to whatever area would normally be defiled by the spell being cast'
It could be that I am the only one that had a hard time understanding the mechanics of the engine- :embarrass