Ironically, the Rogue Knight is pretty hardcore Old Measure. He strongly believes the Knighthood should only accept those willing to live by the Old Ways and that its pretty much perfection. He's disgusted by what the current knights have become under the "new measure."
The other one is all for the New Measure and thinks it allows a great deal more recruits along with cutting to the core of the honor. He's a bit dismayed that it didn't do that and the new recruits are just soldiers than heroes.
Old Measure
+ it's the original!
+ learning over 30 tomes by heart shows REAL enthusiasm for the cause and perseverance in one's goals
+ a knight is more than a fighting machine for the good, he is ruler and judge of people and has to deal with legal and bureaucratic issues as well
- it was watered over the centuries by useless stuff on proper donning a barding in a knightly fashion etc.
- it lost its meaning and became rigid letters (which is not necessarily contributable to the text but the knighthood itself)
- learning over 30 tomes by heart has nothing to do with being an honorable knight defending the good cause with a sword
- learning something by heart does not necessarily entail that you are good at applying the stuff in day to day life and that you will become a fair and wise judge etc.
New Measure:
+ got rid of some old shoes with no meaning and no importance in the life of a knight who want to do anything else than brushing his hair in a knightly and honorable fashion and do any mundane and menial task in the same way
+ re-focusses on the essence (the meaning) taught by Vinas but the form (letter) of his successors
+ adopts to new challenges never encountered before (or ADDED into the old measure over the centuries)
+ sometimes adopting modern ways is what saves the world and not the tradition
- it is not the original
- will attract less purposeful and less willing characters within the ranks of knighthood as well
- the old measure has its benefits as drill instrument
- sometimes the tradition is what saves the world and not the adoption of modern ways
Well, in the end, it depends whether you favor the old ways accepting their defects or if you favor the progressive attitude accepting the loss of good stuff on the way.
Regards,
M's Claw
Well part of my concern is the New Measure apparently split the knighthoods in three if there's any indication from the Rise of Solamnia.
The New Measure didn't split the three Orders up. In fact, the New Measure placed more spiritual prominence on the Order of the Rose, something they didn't have earlier (that was solely the Sword knights). The events that lead up to the Lord of the Rose were political; more will be explained in the upcoming Knightly Orders of Ansalon sourcebook and in the ongoing Rise of Solamnia trilogy.
Cheers,
Cam
Is there anywhere were the Oath and the Measure are clearly spelled out? I am playing a Knight (the only Knight PC) in our current game and its hard to live up to a code that you don't know and can only guess at.
The Oath is very simply "Est Sularus oth Mithas," or "My Honor is My Life."
The Measure on the other hand is pretty much impossible to be spelled out in the way some of you want. Understand that the old Measure was something like 37 300-page tomes. The new Measure, while much smaller, is still much too hefty for us to ever publish. Besides, most of it would be boring, like reading a book of all of your state or federal laws. I don't know many people who would want to read something like that, and I know that, despite the fact that the Knights of Solamnia are my favorite things in Dragonlance, I would not want to write the Measure.
The upcoming Knightly Orders of Ansalon, which is written and in editing right now, will detail the Measure a little more than it already has been, but not to the extent that you're probably wanting.