The new version may be coming soon - but all that will depend upon brun01 :D
Pyreen (Peace-bringer)
Medium fey (psionic)
Hit Dice: 4d6 +32 (46hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
AC: 20 (+3 Dex, +4 inertial armor, +3 insight), touch 20, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/ +3
Attacks: Melee +3 (various, damage by weapon +1) or Ranged +5 (various, damage by weapon).
Full Attack: +3 (various, damage by weapon+1) or Ranged +5 (various, damage by weapon).
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Psionics, spells,
Special Qualities: Blood of races, hypercerebral, life sight, scion of the land, scion of the mind, perfect health,
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +10
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 18, Wis 22, Cha 14
Skills: Concentration +12, Craft +8, Diplomacy +9, Disguise +6, Handle Animal +6, Heal +11, Hide +7, Knowledge (history) +11, Knowledge (nature) +13, Knowledge (psionics) +8, Listen +14, Move Silently +7, Sense Motive +10, Spellcraft +9, Piscraft +9, Spot +12, Survival +13.
Feats: Alertness, Combat Casting, Eschew MaterialsB.
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: Double standard +1 medium or better psionic or magical item
Alignment: Always Neutral/ (Good or True)
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +4
(fluff taken out an moved to current version)
Blood of Races (Ex)- During the Rebirth, the pyreen emerged with a strange blend of the best qualities of the halflings and all the Rebirth races; the speed and senses of the elves, the endurance and resolve of the dwarves, the adaptability of humans, and so on. The pyreen may use any item that calls for a specific blood heritage of any of the Rebirth races or halflings due to the unique nature of their blood-line.
Hypercerebral (Ex)- Another unique facet of the pyreen is their ability to learn and understand almost anything. They always treat all skills as if they were class skills, regardless of the normal skill lists for any class they are in. They also gain additional skill points just like a human does, +4 at first level and an additional +1 for every level they again. These bonus skill points are already figured into the skill totals above.
In addition, this ability is further enhanced by their keen hearing and naturally high intelligence, allowing the pyreen to understand and speak any language spoken by intelligent races. When a peace-bringer is confronted in with a language they do not know, they may make an Intelligence check (DC 25) to understand and speak the language. Failure does not mean they do not understand, only that it will take more time hearing the language for the pyreen to understand and assimilate the syntax of the language. For every point under the DC that the check is failed by, the pyreen must spend an additional minute listening to the language they are trying to understand before they grasp enough of it to speak. Languages “learned” in this fashion are not automatically retained by the pyreen.
Finally, their ability to take in and process a huge amount of information instantly give them the ability to react and almost anticipate others actions, giving them a +3 insight bonus to their armor class.
Lifesight (Ex)- Another benefit of their unique connection to the land is the ability to see the light of living things. This vision is always active and replaces all other forms of vision they would have. To the eyes of the pyreen, the world is constantly lit with the ambient light given off by all living things. Outside, the light given off by the usual plant life in an area is enough to allow a pyreen to see clearly, even on the blackest of nights. In addition sentient creatures give off additional light, depending upon their size, which further illuminates the area or provides the pyreen light to see by in areas indoors. A medium creature provides light that extends out in a 10’ radius. For larger or smaller creatures, take the 10’ radius and multiply or divide it by the number of size categories they are removed from medium-size. For example, a large creature would give off a 20’ radius aura of illumination (one size category larger then medium) while a small creature would only illuminate a 5’ radius area (one size smaller then medium). Undead creatures and areas devoid of life, such as defiled land or the obsidian plains, appear to be utterly black voids to the pyreen’s lifesight.
Perfect Health (Ex)- The pyreen’s strange melding of Rebirth race heritage has given them exceptional vigor and stamina, granting them +20 hp and a +4 racial bonus to all Fortitude saves against disease or poison. The pyreen are also gifted with a lifespan that is so long as to make them effectively immortal. The do appear to age physically, with gray hair and such, but only the most ancient pyreen shows these signs of age. Regardless of their age, a peace-binger never suffers from the penalties of old age. Since the pyreen first emerged from the Rebirth, there has never been record of any pyreen dying of old age.
Scion of the Land (Ex)- All peace-bringers have a unique and soul deep connection to the land and the spirits that inhabit it. As such, they are innately able to channel the power that resides within Athas in the form of druidic magic. Pyreen have a druidic caster level equal to half their hit dice +3 (max 20th level). This caster level stacks with any class levels gained as a druid. A pyreen may exceed the cap of 20 caster levels only if they gain character levels as a druid. They do not gain any of the other class abilities of a druid unless they elect to advance within the druid class. For example, a pyreen with levels as a druid 6/ psion 4 and 4 racial hit dice (ECL 18) would have a caster level of 16 ((14 hit dice/2) +6 druid +3 bonus).
Scion of the Mind (Ex)- The mental make-up of the pyreen is unique in that they are born with fully developed psionic powers, and as they age and gain the experiences and knowledge of the world, their mental abilities become even more potent. All peace-bringers have an innate ability for psionics, and as such they gain powers and power points as a psion of half their hit dice +1 (max 20th level). Manifester levels gained as a psion stack with this ability. A pyreen may exceed the cap of 20 manifester levels only if they gain character levels as a psion. They do not automatically gain a psionic discipline nor do they gain any of the other psion class features such as bonus feats, unless they choose to advance as a psion. So using the same example as above, a pyreen with levels as a druid 6/ psion 4 and 4 racial hit dice (ECL 18) would have a manifeste level of 12 ((14 hit dice/2) +4 psion +1 bonus). Most pyreen favor the discipline of telepathy if they have levels as a psion.
Psionic Powers (power points 17, Manifester level 3, DC 14 + power level.): 1- aura reading (ds), conceal thoughts, empty mind, inertial armor, mind thrust; 2- cloud mind, ego whip.
Spells Per Day (5/5/4/2; Caster level 5, save DC 16 + spell level): 0- create water, cure minor wounds (2), guidance, mending; 1- cure light wounds, entangle, longstrider, obscuring mist, shillelagh; 2- cure moderate wounds, flame blade, gust of wind, lesser restoration; 3- call lightning, summon natures ally III.
Feats- As a bonus feat, pyreen’s have the Eschew Material feat, though the benefits of the feat only apply to druidic magic.
Skills- +2 racial bonus to Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (ancient history), Knowledge (history), and Listen checks.
I will be adding, today most likely, material that gives information for taking this race as a character race.
As for their stats- I began with the elite attribute score array- 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 then added stat mods and a +1 to Wisdom for being a 4HD creature.
Lets take a look at another example for all of you out there who still doubt how powerful this creatures actually is.
Say a pyreen broke alll conventions and decided the best way to serve the land was to become a powerful warrior- fighter 16/ pyreen 4 (ECL 24). He would have the following abilities- a BAB of +18, druidic caster level of 13 (7th level spells), manifester level 11 (6th level powers), 9 bonus fighter feats, 5 other feats, 3 attribute points to spend.
Or say they wanted to master the arcane- perserver 16/pyreen 4 (ECL 24), arcane caster level 16 (8th level spells), druidic caster level of 13 (7th level spells), manifester level 11 (6th level powers), scribe scroll and 3 bonus feats, 5 other feats, 3 attribute points to spend.
Or follow the true way of the pyreen and master the druidic path- druid 16/pyreen 4 (ECL 24), druidic caster level 29 (
), manifester level 11 (6th level powers), all 16th level druid class abilities, 5 other feats, 3 attribute points to spend.Or lets say they we wanted to master both facets of the pyreen and advance as a druid and psion- druid 8/ psion (telepath) 8/ pyreen 4 (ECL 24)- caster level 21, manifester level 19, all 8th level druid class features, 2 bonus psion feats, 5 other feats, 3 attribute points to spend.
Do you see what I am talking about.
Attack: Melee +3 (flame blade 1d8+2, touch attack), or Ranged +5 (longbow, 1d8).
Flame blade? Thats kind of odd for a being known as a "Peace-bringer".
Flame blade? Thats kind of odd for a being known as a "Peace-bringer".
It is a druid spell Sysane- touch attack to make up for a low attack bonus and respectable dmg. And the fact that they are called peace-bringers does not preclude them from defending themselves with a weapon if necessary.
So I guess I do not see your confusion on this- the original pyreen entry had them with a weapon too.
It is a druid spell Sysane- touch attack to make up for a low attack bonus and respectable dmg. And the fact that they are called peace-bringers does not preclude them from defending themselves with a weapon if necessary.
So I guess I do not see your confusion on this- the original pyreen entry had them with a weapon too.
Yes, but not with flame blade listed. As listed it makes it seem that ALL pyreen favor that attack. I'd simply leave it as melee weapon +3.
I'm not trying to be a !@#$, but it just seems out of place IMO. However, do what you'd like ;)
Yes, but not with flame blade listed. As listed it makes it seem that ALL pyreen favor that attack. I'd simply leave it as melee weapon +3.
I'm not trying to be a !@#$, but it just seems out of place IMO. However, do what you'd like ;)
I will just make it like you say Melee + and Ranged + and just put in something like "various" in place of the flame blade- I just had it in there b/c it was one ofthe spells I selected and thought it would be the most likely weapon they would pull out- no need to carry it or anything.
also, you leave open the possiblility of... different... pyreens. I know that 3.5 says balance requires that no one be barred from a class, but could it be possible for a pyreen to be barred from say the delifer class? or the templar class? obviously fluff would say no way to those, but it might help to say that they cannot, altough a pyreen who cast preserver magic would be interesting. anyway, just an idea.
Just one thing, though, what are its racial ability adjustments?
I think LA +4 it's just a little bit low...
Base stats- Elite ability array (MM pg 290)
Str 10, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 8.
Wis +1 for 4 HD
Racial Ability Modifiers-
Str +2, Dex +4, Con +4, Int +4, Wis +6, Cha +6.
The only thing I might change would be the +6's to +4's and increase Str to +4 too.
Life Sight (Ex)- Another benefit of their unique connection to the land is the ability to see the light of living things. As a free action, a peace-bringer may shift their sight to see the ambient light given off by all living things.
I suggest stating if this is affected by its lowlight vision. I would rule no, but the less room for disagreement the better.
Scion of the Land & Scion of the Mind
I know you stated casting as a druid and manifesting as a psion, but since this an innate ability it would normally be tied to charisma.
I suggest stating which ability score the casting and manifesting abilities are tied to.
Questions I have are:
1)Size, weight, and age (like the Elan perhaps?)statistics?
2)Favored class?
I have to say that I like it quite a bit. Good job
Also, it invokes images of the Predator :D
Blood of Races (Ex)- During the Rebirth, the pyreen emerged with a strange blend of the best qualities of the halflings and all the Rebirth races; the speed and senses of the elves, the endurance and resolve of the dwarves, the adaptability of humans, and so on. The pyreen may use any item that calls for a specific blood heritage due to the unique nature of their blood-line.
Since the kreen species are not from the Rebirth, maybe Pyreens shouldn't be able to use kreen specific items? And if you like the whole githyanki invasion, they shouldn't be able use gith-based items either. I suppose my point is that they should only be able to use items requiring a blood trait that came about as a result of the Rebirth.
Sorry, ECL 8 seems... low for such a powerful race. Anything less than an ECL of 16 would be too weak, because the Pyreen are inherently druid/psionic -- and were in the 2E mechanics, taking that away would be like taking away 2 arms and the exoskeleton of a Thri-Kreen. The Scion of... abilities appear to be an effort to make some new mechanic where there already was an existing mechanic to work with.
How can you say that there was an existing mechanic to work with- by just arbitrarily saying that they have the ability to cast spells and psionics at 16th level? So what would be the difference between a pyreen 10 years old and one 2,000 years old- none; using that ‘mechanic’ it would state that they are the same- just carbon copies of one another. A blanket statement just stating that they have these powerful abilities just because is a cop-out IMO.
As for being ECL 8 and being too weak- come on Xlore- did you even read the posts where I gave several examples of how one could make the pyreen unique and individual and not just a rubber stamp of one another? I am not trying to offend you, you know I got nothing but love for you bro, but I really think that you are just against the idea of them being non-epic to begin with and just flat out refuse to see that just because they were one specific way in 2e (which you have to agree was flawed in many ways) that they just have to be one specific way now. IIRC you even made a statement that it did not matter what we all thought in the end because it had already been decided that they were going to be epic no matter what we said.
This is still a game for the players and not just the creators, and there were many people wanting to see something non-epic that would be playable- all I am trying to do is fill the demand with something that works, is not broken, and fits with the flavor of the original. Sure I am using some new things in my attempt to do so- but why is that a bad thing. With the Scion powers you get varying levels of power as the pyreen advance, so they come into their powers and they develop it as it grows within them. Now are you really going to say that it would be better to just say that – boom- they have 16th ability to cast spells and powers, end of story and that is it!
I know you stated casting as a druid and manifesting as a psion, but since this an innate ability it would normally be tied to charisma.
I suggest stating which ability score the casting and manifesting abilities are tied to.
Questions I have are:
1)Size, weight, and age (like the Elan perhaps?)statistics?
2)Favored class?
I have to say that I like it quite a bit. Good job
Good point with the ability score- it is normally the cast, but not always, so I will add a line stating which ability effects the spells and psionics.
As for your other questions- I have said that I will be writing additional material on pyreen as characters and general descriptive text- I just have not had time right now- I think I put in like 60 hours this week at work- but i promise to get it written soon.
Pennarin- love the idea and I will make it so. Their lifesight will be just how they see the world- which would be truely horrible in areas of heavly defiled land.
CKS- another good point- I will make sure and clarify that it is only items made that require a speific Rebirth race to function.
How can you say that there was an existing mechanic to work with- by just arbitrarily saying that they have the ability to cast spells and psionics at 16th level? So what would be the difference between a pyreen 10 years old and one 2,000 years old- none; using that ‘mechanic’ it would state that they are the same- just carbon copies of one another. A blanket statement just stating that they have these powerful abilities just because is a cop-out IMO.QUOTE]
I think it's lovely :inlove:
How can you say that there was an existing mechanic to work with- by just arbitrarily saying that they have the ability to cast spells and psionics at 16th level? So what would be the difference between a pyreen 10 years old and one 2,000 years old- none; using that ‘mechanic’ it would state that they are the same- just carbon copies of one another. A blanket statement just stating that they have these powerful abilities just because is a cop-out IMO.
Apparently, you're under the impression that if a race is Epic it somehow is unplayable and carbon-copies. That's a gross misunderstanding of the rules.
As for being ECL 8 and being too weak- come on Xlore- did you even read the posts where I gave several examples of how one could make the pyreen unique and individual and not just a rubber stamp of one another? I am not trying to offend you, you know I got nothing but love for you bro, but I really think that you are just against the idea of them being non-epic to begin with and just flat out refuse to see that just because they were one specific way in 2e (which you have to agree was flawed in many ways) that they just have to be one specific way now. IIRC you even made a statement that it did not matter what we all thought in the end because it had already been decided that they were going to be epic no matter what we said.
Your idea of "unique" is to make the race weaker, so you could have variation at lower levels. My version of unique is to keep them the equivalent power they had in the 2e setting, and let them have variations in development from there.
This is still a game for the players and not just the creators, and there were many people wanting to see something non-epic that would be playable- all I am trying to do is fill the demand with something that works, is not broken, and fits with the flavor of the original. Sure I am using some new things in my attempt to do so- but why is that a bad thing. With the Scion powers you get varying levels of power as the pyreen advance, so they come into their powers and they develop it as it grows within them. Now are you really going to say that it would be better to just say that – boom- they have 16th ability to cast spells and powers, end of story and that is it!
There were a few who mentioned it in the previous post about Pyreen -- But the community on a much grander scale opposed a lower-powered Pyreen when it had been presented before. It's conceivable that the attitude is changed. I personally don't think that the Pyreen needs to be Epic, which is why I'm saying that as low as a 15 or 16 ECL is acceptable. I haven't even said HOW many levels in psionics and druid spells that would be -- because there are other factors, like Wild Shape, Timeless Body, and other druid abilities that can easily be attributed to the Pyreen. ECL 16 is still below Epic. ECL 16 just means that the Pyreen are to be built as a powerful race. I've not said how many hit dice, how much of a Level Adjustment, or anything about the exact configuration. All I have said is to do them justice, anything less than 16 is underpowered. Plain and simple. That's just by looking at what we already have for them.
The level not withstanding, you do have some intriguing ideas avboiut the Pyreen -- I just think that you're way off on their power, plain and simple. I don't like the "Scion of..." abilities you gave them, as they are unprecidented, and look to have a high potential of breaking things and being exploited. Looking at other creatures with natural abilities to cast spells & powers (and I don't just mean spell-like abilities!) -- it wouldn't be too difficult to use the existing mechanics. Look at how the MM "Standard" or "True" Dragons are with regards to sorcerer levels, or the Dark Spiders from ToA even. That can be a guideline used to develop the Pyreen, without needing to add in an untested game mechanic.
And please, get off your defensive high horse, k? I'm not wanting to criticize you, but just state what has been stated about Pyreen for the past 4+ years. From a great many posters on this forum, and the previous incarnation of WotC's forums. Concerns that the community -- players and DM's had about the Pyreen, not just the creators.
Your idea of "unique" is to make the race weaker, so you could have variation at lower levels. My version of unique is to keep them the equivalent power they had in the 2e setting, and let them have variations in development from there.
You made them way too weak Kal. These are epic, or close to epic beings, making them 4 HD, at whatever age, is an insult.
There were a few who mentioned it in the previous post about Pyreen -- But the community on a much grander scale opposed a lower-powered Pyreen when it had been presented before. It's conceivable that the attitude is changed.
No, just different people posting now. What I had posted back in the day was a 1HD beng with a low LA, using the idea that the druid innate abilities were nothing but druidic levels. The community made me see the light, though I am still torn on whether it should be playable or not, but that just means it will be playable at epic levels, not in the much lower non-double digit levels.
All the fluff points to this, so I'm not sure how others are seeing this otherwise. 2e mechanics aside.
I've not said how many hit dice, how much of a Level Adjustment, or anything about the exact configuration. All I have said is to do them justice, anything less than 16 is underpowered. Plain and simple. That's just by looking at what we already have for them.
Unfortunately I don't think we can do them justice unless we go the Epic route.
The level not withstanding, you do have some intriguing ideas avboiut the Pyreen -- I just think that you're way off on their power, plain and simple.
Right, some of the abilities are showing promise, but the overall power level is way too weak.
This might satisfy those that want a lower powered, playable version that is unofficial of course.
-snip-
though I am still torn on whether it should be playable or not, but that just means it will be playable at epic levels
-snip-
Not allowing pyreens to be playable because they would be epic sounds a lot to me like the argument over banning psychic warriors access to avangionhood because, in effect, that combination would be weird.
Its not going to kill us to make an epic pyreen playable (who cares at what level that is, if you get to that level then you can have fun), furthermore it will be a lot easier to customize (i.e. give class levels) individual pyreens for our campaigns if we have access to a racial traits section. I for one have no clue how to add class levels to monsters without advancement!
is him a Traitor of the Land?
Traitor of the Land (Ex)- The War-bringer has betrayed his unique and soul deep connection to the land and the spirits that inhabit it. As such, he was innately able to channel the power that resides within Athas in the form of druidic magic, but found a way to just steal the life of the planet to fuel his defiling magic. Rajaat has a defiler caster level equal to half his hit dice +3 (max 20th level). This caster level stacks with any class levels gained as a defiler. He exceedes the cap of 20 caster levels by gaining character levels as a defiler.
For example, a young Rajaat build with levels as a defiler 6/ psion 4 and 4 racial hit dice (ECL 18) would have a caster level of 16 ((14 hit dice/2) +6 defiler+3 bonus).
This ability substitues Scion of the Land thet is lost if a Pyreen even commits defiling in his life, still to know how it is gained.
this will open the way to Pyreen/Dragons
Thanks
What about Rajaat?
is him a Traitor of the Land?
Traitor of the Land (Ex)- The War-bringer has betrayed his unique and soul deep connection to the land and the spirits that inhabit it. As such, he was innately able to channel the power that resides within Athas in the form of druidic magic, but found a way to just steal the life of the planet to fuel his defiling magic. Rajaat has a defiler caster level equal to half his hit dice +3 (max 20th level). This caster level stacks with any class levels gained as a defiler. He exceedes the cap of 20 caster levels by gaining character levels as a defiler.
For example, a young Rajaat build with levels as a defiler 6/ psion 4 and 4 racial hit dice (ECL 18) would have a caster level of 16 ((14 hit dice/2) +6 defiler+3 bonus).
This ability substitues Scion of the Land thet is lost if a Pyreen even commits defiling in his life, still to know how it is gained.
this will open the way to Pyreen/Dragons
I would say that Rajaat was deformed.... mutated, if you will, from the Pyreen in more than just a physical way. I had proposed before that if Druids are somewhat linked to the four prime elements (through a Spirit of the Land), what if Rajaat somehow was linked differently -- instead of to the four elements through a SotL, he has some sort of limited connection to the four paraelements? Then it could be looked at that maybe the prime elements' corruption could have somewhat affected Rajaat (or Rajaat's corruption affected them, or even a combination of the two) leading to the "war" between the elements & paraelements.
I would say that Rajaat was deformed.... mutated, if you will, from the Pyreen in more than just a physical way. I had proposed before that if Druids are somewhat linked to the four prime elements (through a Spirit of the Land), what if Rajaat somehow was linked differently -- instead of to the four elements through a SotL, he has some sort of limited connection to the four paraelements? Then it could be looked at that maybe the prime elements' corruption could have somewhat affected Rajaat (or Rajaat's corruption affected them, or even a combination of the two) leading to the "war" between the elements & paraelements.
This is intriguing... but i belive the "war of the elements" began long before the birth of the Warbringher, wasen't the nature benders allied whit some elemental clerics against a coalition of nature masters and other clerics?
This is intriguing... but i belive the "war of the elements" began long before the birth of the Warbringher, wasen't the nature benders allied whit some elemental clerics against a coalition of nature masters and other clerics?
(Note: much of below is my personal take on Dark Sun, and about Rajaat, the elemental war, etc. and shouldn't be taken as anything even remotely official)
I'm not certain. I know there were elemental clerics in the Blue Age, but I don't really remember much about them written down. However -- even if the war of the elements already was going, then Rajaat could have been caught up with the paraelemental side of it, even on a low or minor level. Without the connection through a Spirit of the Land, he'd end up being possibly viewed as crippled by his peers -- because without a Spirit of the Land to help him, he'd be incapable of casting Druidic spells. If the Pyreen, as a whole, had a tenative link to the four elements, something that attracted the attention and support of Spirits of the Land (as Druidic spells are granted by SotL's, gifted to them through the pact of Earth, Air, Fire and Water, would have an equal share of each of the four elements' power), and if Rjaat had that link to the paraelements rather than elements -- he'd not have a Spirit of the Land granting him spells.
Frustrated with his own abominable appearance, with his ineptitude at casting spells (and using Druidic abilities), he then turns to probably first figure out how to "fix" this -- and learns about the Blue Age, about the Rhulisti, and about Lifeshaping. He probably quests to find lost Lifeshaping knowledge -- artifacts, sites, etc. He begins to meddle with it, ostensibly to learn how to "fix" himself -- but eventually the frustration he has over being incapable of figuring out Lifeshaping twists his self-loathing into pure hatred -- that such an abomination as himself could have been spawned from the Rebirth, means that the Rebirth was a mistake... so he pushes harder to develop something, anything from Lifeshaping -- he may have even gone to the Pristine Tower for a while, and he stumbles onto what becomes Arcane Magic -- possibly as a side-effect of his Lifeshaping research. He may have casually discarded it at first, but then began meddling with it more, and then expanding it. He goes to the Swamps (well, I'd guess they were a vibrant forest at that time) and toys around with it, perfecting and honing his new weapon into what is now known as Arcane Magic. He spends centuries learning the full capabilities of the Arcane, and sees it as a tool to eliminate what he probably now feels is the single-greatest mistake ever brought into the world -- the Rebirth. Then he goes, reworks the Pristine Tower to suit his purposes -- most likely to augment and enhance his Arcane Magic (even though that hardly was its' original purpose), makes his Champions, starts massive genocide on a global scale, etc, etc.
The reason I bring up a possible connection to the Paraelements for him is multi-folded. Arcane Magic, at its' extremes -- that of Defiling -- actually seems to make the world more suitable for the Paraelements of Silt and Sun, as well as the destructive nature that Arcane Spells can do, provides the potential for more rifts to open for Magma. Defilers are actually, I believe, tipping the scales in the favor of those paraelements in the "elemental war". However Rain seems to be significantly weaker -- but that could be a side-effect of what the Pristine Tower had done, the Brown Tide, or even whatever Rajaat may have inadvertently changed in the Tower resulting in the disappearance of the oceans -- maybe all of the above. Regardless, Rain has gotten weaker. However when Rajaat came out to the world and was freed from the Hollow, he came with a body made of storms -- the Cerulean Storm -- which tends to make it appear that Rain may have made a stronger pact with the First Sorcerer -- maybe as a last-ditch effort from a very desperate paraelement to still survive -- or Rajaat had simply tapped into his connection with Rain from his deformity, and strengthened it himself to become more powerful. Who knows?
I personally believe that Rajaat's not "truely" entrapped any more, and he is simply biding his time -- building his powerbase even more, and preparing to bring back the Blue Age while wiping out the last bits of the Rebirth in the world. I think that Sadira played right into his hand unwittingly, and putting the Dark Lens into the lava in the Valley of Dust and Fire was fundamentally stupid, for Obsidian is simply a cooled, refined form of Magma. I think that the Cerulean Storm is cooling off the Valley, and that the Magma is being forged into strong obsidian bones for Rajaat, with the Dark Lens becoming part of his new body. I think when he comes back again (and not if, but when) Rajaat will have solidified his connection with the other three paraelements -- Rain he already has, but then Magma (in the form of his "new" obsidian bones), Sun (through the connection the Dark Lens seems to have with the sun -- for power), and Silt (which is providing a sanctuary, apart from his enemies currently, and could have even more importance afterwards.... I see Rajaat being able to call up silt-storms to ravage and scour (sp?) the Tablelands killing off the rest of the Rebirth races).
I personally believe that Rajaat's not "truely" entrapped any more, and he is simply biding his time -- building his powerbase even more, and preparing to bring back the Blue Age while wiping out the last bits of the Rebirth in the world. I think that Sadira played right into his hand unwittingly, and putting the Dark Lens into the lava in the Valley of Dust and Fire was fundamentally stupid, for Obsidian is simply a cooled, refined form of Magma. I think that the Cerulean Storm is cooling off the Valley, and that the Magma is being forged into strong obsidian bones for Rajaat, with the Dark Lens becoming part of his new body. I think when he comes back again (and not if, but when) Rajaat will have solidified his connection with the other three paraelements -- Rain he already has, but then Magma (in the form of his "new" obsidian bones), Sun (through the connection the Dark Lens seems to have with the sun -- for power), and Silt (which is providing a sanctuary, apart from his enemies currently, and could have even more importance afterwards.... I see Rajaat being able to call up silt-storms to ravage and scour (sp?) the Tablelands killing off the rest of the Rebirth races).
I love it!
I ever imagined that defiling vas a sort of rip off of the process of lifeshaping since you have to heat the wax of a candle to make a wax doll, you have to "weaken" the the wax (good metaphore) to reshape it but if you overdoe it begins to melt...
What if heating the wax of life you relase enregy? energy uoy can use to make arcane magic work?
melting is like defiling while simple heating is preserving...
intresting.......
The level not withstanding, you do have some intriguing ideas avboiut the Pyreen -- I just think that you're way off on their power, plain and simple. I don't like the "Scion of..." abilities you gave them, as they are unprecidented, and look to have a high potential of breaking things and being exploited. Looking at other creatures with natural abilities to cast spells & powers (and I don't just mean spell-like abilities!) -- it wouldn't be too difficult to use the existing mechanics. Look at how the MM "Standard" or "True" Dragons are with regards to sorcerer levels, or the Dark Spiders from ToA even. That can be a guideline used to develop the Pyreen, without needing to add in an untested game mechanic.
I may be stupid (wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last), but how exactly does this game mechanic work, and how would it apply. When looking at the Dark Spiders, I see that they cast at a level equal to their HD, but is it that simple? I want to understand, but today I am missing it.
I may be stupid (wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last), but how exactly does this game mechanic work, and how would it apply. When looking at the Dark Spiders, I see that they cast at a level equal to their HD, but is it that simple? I want to understand, but today I am missing it.
Basically, it's as simple as that. Do bear in mind, however, that like most things based on racial Hit Dice, I would assume that this does not include class levels that a character takes. However, I believe it was Savage Species which had for Dragons (with regards to their Sorcerer spellcaster levels), that taking levels in the class the creature already has spellcaster (or manifester) levels in, they stack. So... a Pyreen taking levels in Druid wouldn't start as a level 1 Druid, but the Druid class levels + whatever levels are garnered from their race would combine together to give their true Druid class level.
Since we're talking about a race with 2 separate progressions, plus some of the other fun features of a Druid, maybe a 3:4 ratio for Druid levels to Hit Dice would be possibly better than a straight 1:1 ratio. What I mean is, if we say that the Pyreen has an ECL of 16, then I'd say that Pyreen has 12 Druid levels (and associated abilities), plus manifests powers as a 16th level Psion (or whatever we go with here). The reason for the divergence in caster & manifester levels is because the Pyreen also seem to have the other Druidic class abilities (above and beyond simple spellcasting capability).
At least, that's how I'd look at it. Considering what some of the Druidic abilities are (like timeless body -- but I forget when that's acquired), Pyreen could conceivably appear to never age (they do grow up -- but don't really "get old"). Not that you'd be likely to see a Pyreen up-close-and-personal (I see them frequently prefering wandering around the place in some animal's form).
Even with Timeless Body they'd need a lifespan in the thousands of years. Taking the epic feat Extended Life Span several times would also explain how they can be still running around today.
You misunderstand what I was saying. I wasn't claiming that it would make them immortal, I wasn't even applying it to lifespan at all. Just that physically, they'd not "get old" -- they wouldn't wrinkle, etc. They would always look young.
You misunderstand what I was saying. I wasn't claiming that it would make them immortal, I wasn't even applying it to lifespan at all. Just that physically, they'd not "get old" -- they wouldn't wrinkle, etc. They would always look young.
Like the kreen eh? No adult/mature ages only normal and the venerable. Sucha a thing is not common in the mamal species, then again, are pyreen mamals?
Well in these books, Dragons had a cycle of being awake and active and being and a deep sleep- the cycle was awake for 6,000 years and asleep for 3,000- kind of liek humans are aways for 2/3rds of a day and asleep for 1/3rds (in general terms). So it was theorized that the life span of a dragon consisted of a 9,000 year "day". So taking their day and mutiplying it out to the same number of 'days' a human had and you would ge something like a total life span of the equalivant of 75 human years and you would get a dragon life span of 246,375,000 years, but in their eyes (the dragons) they would only live for 75 of their years.
This same theory could be applied in the concept of the pyreen- they are not immortal, but the span of their years is just so much greater that they appear effectively immortal.
Just a thought I had in relation to the age thing and not something really that would effect the mechanics of the game- just a discussion topic.
Like the kreen eh? No adult/mature ages only normal and the venerable. Sucha a thing is not common in the mamal species, then again, are pyreen mamals?
No, there wouldn't be a "venerable" stage. They would just have an extended "normal" stage that would go until they die. The Kreen tend to age real fast when they reach the venerable stage, I believe. I'm talking about what amounts to a timelessness to their bodies -- they "grow up" and physically mature, but then after that, there is no physical affects with regards to time.
And Pennarin: I dunno about really needing the feat, personally, when it comes to the lifespans of Pyreen, I'd like to see it be in terms of millenia, or that they don't die of old age (but need things like violence to kill them). Then again, if the majority of the really old ones had actually become Spirits of the Land, and simply move around in a corporeal/physical form across Athas, it could give the impression of the Pyreen being virtually immortal.
Have any of you every read Dennis L. McKerrian (sp? on the last name)- he wrote a set of books in a Mithgar series.
Well in these books, Dragons had a cycle of being awake and active and being and a deep sleep- the cycle was awake for 6,000 years and asleep for 3,000- kind of liek humans are aways for 2/3rds of a day and asleep for 1/3rds (in general terms). So it was theorized that the life span of a dragon consisted of a 9,000 year "day". So taking their day and mutiplying it out to the same number of 'days' a human had and you would ge something like a total life span of the equalivant of 75 human years and you would get a dragon life span of 246,375,000 years, but in their eyes (the dragons) they would only live for 75 of their years.
This same theory could be applied in the concept of the pyreen- they are not immortal, but the span of their years is just so much greater that they appear effectively immortal.
Just a thought I had in relation to the age thing and not something really that would effect the mechanics of the game- just a discussion topic.
It's ain interesting idea, for sure. Reminds me a LOT of the Shadowrun way of handling magic and such... That could mean there's a sizeable number of Pyreen currently asleep somewhere...
Rajaat was pyreen, and most likely seen as the most hated and shameful thing another pyreen could admit too. Well inorder to keep him imprisioned, Borys went to the pyreen and made a deal- aid him in keeping Rajaat sealed away to protect the rest of Athas or see the whole world be reduced to nothing but an ash wasteland. So they helped design the Hollow and have been helping the Dragon keep him sealed away for the last several thousand years. This would be a great way to explain why in the DS MM Appedix I it said that the pyreen had extensive knowledge of the Dragon and where he came from- they were in fct some of the ones who aided him in getting there and a mojority of their population was being used to help keep Rajaat in prision.
So now that the Dagon is dead- the pyreen have actually stayed in the ruins of Ur Draxa to keep Rajaat sealed.
Just another thought I had.
So they helped design the Hollow and have been helping the Dragon keep him sealed away for the last several thousand years.
Ick, no.
Besides, there is one actively pursuing his death (well at least until the PP changed all of that). Canon just backs up that they know about him, doesn't back up anything remotely suggesting that they helped him. To me that goes against the spirit of the Pyreen, whether it was ultimately for a greater good or not.
I dunno about really needing the feat, personally, when it comes to the lifespans of Pyreen, I'd like to see it be in terms of millenia, or that they don't die of old age (but need things like violence to kill them). Then again, if the majority of the really old ones had actually become Spirits of the Land, and simply move around in a corporeal/physical form across Athas, it could give the impression of the Pyreen being virtually immortal.
This is sort of a radical idea. What if a pyreen had set life span numbering 2000+ years. Towards the end of their natural life the die and are reborn as a "young" pyreen with no memory of their past. Think along the lines of a phoenix.
This is sort of a radical idea. What if a pyreen had set life span numbering 2000+ years. Towards the end of their natural life the die and are reborn as a "young" pyreen with no memory of their past. Think along the lines of a phoenix.
That is an intriguing idea... I just don't see how that would benefit or not benefit the Pyreen. Unless you work with the notion that there is a fixed number of Pyreen in the world -- those that die then effectively reincarnate into being a new Pyreen child (and that's the only way a new Pyreen child can be born)...
That is an intriguing idea... I just don't see how that would benefit or not benefit the Pyreen. Unless you work with the notion that there is a fixed number of Pyreen in the world -- those that die then effectively reincarnate into being a new Pyreen child (and that's the only way a new Pyreen child can be born)...
I would think that there were a set number of them. If their numbers were legion I would think they would have brought down one or two of the SKs long ago IMO.
Just say that they are not prone to making children in the first place, their great power, wisdom, intelligence, and conncetion to the land gives them a totally different optic on race.
They may not be fertile once a month like humans, it may be once a year or ten years.
Please, no set number! This would be mythology or something, a reversed Highlander gimick..."there can only be 259".
Just say that they are not prone to making children in the first place, their great power, wisdom, intelligence, and conncetion to the land gives them a totally different optic on race.
They may not be fertile once a month like humans, it may be once a year or ten years.
The 2e MM entry eluded that there may be a set number of them. I don't really see that gimmicky in the least.
The 2e MM entry eluded that there may be a set number of them. I don't really see that gimmicky in the least.
I don't have a problem with that either, its actually kinda cool
Perhaps the numnber could be directly related to the number of spirits of the land, and everytime a spirit of the land is killed a pyreen dies with it... just a random idea.
I firmly put a set number of pyreen as part of such an obscure divine intervention, and as such would never implement it. What possible force on Athas could and would limit the number of pyreen? Its in the advantage of the spirits of the lands to have more druids, not less. Its also in the advantage of the pyreen to have more of themselves to restore the world, not less.
Pyreens may naturally maintain themselves near a certain number, simply because they tend to live apart from one another, and are rarely fertile. Newborn pyreens could barely be helping them recover their losses in killed or ascended pyreens.
This I find a far better explanation than some mystical number limit.
Since there's a lack of gods on Athas, all the little spiritual thingnies, cycles, obscure reasons for something, all of that is not present because the gods in D&D are credited for those details.
I firmly put a set number of pyreen as part of such an obscure divine intervention, and as such would never implement it. What possible force on Athas could and would limit the number of pyreen? Its in the advantage of the spirits of the lands to have more druids, not less. Its also in the advantage of the pyreen to have more of themselves to restore the world, not less.
Pyreens may naturally maintain themselves near a certain number, simply because they tend to live apart from one another, and are rarely fertile. Newborn pyreens could barely be helping them recover their losses in killed or ascended pyreens.
This I find a far better explanation than some mystical number limit.
So instead of Gods, it was the rhulisti who instilled some "mythical number" in the "genetic" make-up of all pyreen during the Rebirth. For what reason? Only the rhulisti know. ;)
Ick, no.
Besides, there is one actively pursuing his death (well at least until the PP changed all of that). Canon just backs up that they know about him, doesn't back up anything remotely suggesting that they helped him. To me that goes against the spirit of the Pyreen, whether it was ultimately for a greater good or not.
Hey Nyt- reread the original pyreen entry. You can see in there that it states that they have some deep and secret knowledge about the origin of the Dragon and of the time period- I was just drawing a broad assumption that I know has no actual support in canon, but that possibly be implied in the pyreen write up.
I am not saying that it actually happened, but that is was a plausible possibility on why the pyreen would have such knowledge and why the leader of the pyreen would not try to take out Borys himself- his people would suffer in the Dragon's bondage if he failed- whereas if he worked through agents then his people would not suffer directly from any failed attack against the Dragon.
Like I said- I only thought it would be an interesting twist :D
Perhaps the numnber could be directly related to the number of spirits of the land, and everytime a spirit of the land is killed a pyreen dies with it... just a random idea.
By that logic would it not imply that when ever a new Spirt of the Land is 'born' some random Pryeen would become pregnant/give birth. If that was the case it would explane why they would be so solitary. No need for pair mateing if a fertalized female Pryeen would carry the fertalized egg in her womb until a new SotL comes about.
Just museing about the life cycle here not even begining to express any clue on how that would work. If they had a population limit due to some exteranal factor such as SotL population then it seams resonable to assume that thier reproductive systems would have addapted to that. Allowing Females to retain an undeveloping but fertalized egg within her womb for an extended time.
But on the more serious side, that'd be a neat idea with the half-bloods becoming full-bloods later in life...
-X
An interesting twist would be that once in a great while a pyreen copulate with another humanoid species and its offspring may, or may not, exhibit some unique abilities. When a pyreen dies one of these offspring, or even the offspring's offspring, may become slow start to change into a pryreen themselves replacing the one died in order to maintaining the natural order of things (as set by the rhulisti).
Sort of like some genetic marker that lies dorment untile it recives the needed energy source to activate... I like it.
It could lead to a interesting story, not to balanced for a PC but for an NPC sounds nice and functional. Have an old NPC turn into a Pyreen after the PC's witness the death of a previously introdused Pyreen. If the transformation brought by the awakeing genetic data was painful and potentialy prolonged, would make an interesting situation for PC's to deal with. Expesialy if agents of an SK knew about the budding Pyreen, Say by some sort of divination spell, and was willing to go to any extream to kill as many of them as possible before the transformation coul hold. Maybe not too plausable but still could be interesting.
Bad Sysane, bad! You mentioned half-breeds and now we're going to have all kinds of speculation about playing half-pyreens now! Bad! :P
But on the more serious side, that'd be a neat idea with the half-bloods becoming full-bloods later in life...
-X
The simple solution would be to just have it that they have no special abilities beyond the scope of their non-pyreen parent. Instead of a full blown race, I'd just have that it would be a special feat that could only be taken at 1st level.
The simplest solution is to go with fluff on the reason for their small numbers.
Well I sincerly hope athas.org does not go the "preprogrammed number of pyreens " way, and all that it implies or could imply, like ressurection, transfer of souls, rules, enforcement of rules, etc.
The simplest solution is to go with fluff on the reason for their small numbers.
All that could be easy incorporated into fluff. No need for a complex mechanic or abilities to justify it.
All that could be easy incorporated into fluff. No need for a complex mechanic or abilities to justify it.
Exactly. In fact, I believe at the beginning of this side-track, it was mentioned that this would be something strictly in the fluff, if that. I'm kinda fence-sitting on it all, because I can see the benefits and drawbacks of both sides of the side-track discussion, and haven't been able to weigh which I agree with or disagree with more.
Hey Nyt- reread the original pyreen entry. You can see in there that it states that they have some deep and secret knowledge about the origin of the Dragon and of the time period-
*Knowledge of* yes, *ally of* no.
I have read it and my position still stands. They certainly do know about him and may even know some secrets about him as well, but they certainly aren't going to ally with him. The spirit of the Pyreen fluff contradicts that.
*Knowledge of* yes, *ally of* no.
I have read it and my position still stands. They certainly do know about him and may even know some secrets about him as well, but they certainly aren't going to ally with him. The spirit of the Pyreen fluff contradicts that.
Gonna have to agree on that. Someone knowing of the origins of the Dragon doesn't even begin to make the assertion that they are allies.
Gonna have to agree on that. Someone knowing of the origins of the Dragon doesn't even begin to make the assertion that they are allies.
Yes. Guaranteed.
Darn work is getting in the way of those things that are truely important- like gaming - by at least April 15 this will slow down if not a bit before and I will be at work on my version once again.
Thanks for the interest.
Do not fear- My efforts go on inspite of nay-sayers
Aka the Knights of Nay! :D
Knights: "NAY! Nay! Nay! Nay!"
Otherwise good folk: "Good lord, cover your hears!"
Aka the Knights of Nay! :D
Knights: "NAY! Nay! Nay! Nay!"
Otherwise good folk: "Good lord, cover your hears!"
Good one Pennarin
One that looks nice, and isn't too low powered...
We will continue to say nay, until you bring us.....a conversion of the Pyreen that doesn't suck!
One that looks nice, and isn't too low powered...
Hey now- the one conversion I posted did not suck - epic-powered hungry, "must be 'X' HD people just did not see they true beauty of the design of my work. :P
Hey now- the one conversion I posted did not suck - epic-powered hungry, "must be 'X' HD people just did not see they true beauty of the design of my work. :P
Not sure what beauty you were seeing when it violated a lot of what the flavor text was pressenting, the fact that it wasn't epic either made it even worse. :P
Speaking of flavor- hey Nyt- check out my site and read up on the tag called book- I posted some additional material there. As always your comments are welcome.
Will check it.
Get my Pyreen out beeyatch, want to see what you come up with once you have put some thought into it. :P
/me breaks out the whip
There's still some way to go on this.
Anyway - I can repost the original version of what I came up with and if you use it let me know how it worked out.
when the write-up for all of the advanced beings - cleric, druid and preserver, defiler being already done - is completed.
Is there a planned date of release yet?
The process is more complex than one would first imagine, including ongoing discussion on whether to create a seperate "advanced being" type, with elemental, dragon, avangion, and spirit of the land as subtypes.
What would such a type and subtype imply?
Well, you imagine the rest, which is enough to explain why they haven't come up with the write-ups for a while now. The whole thing is quite complex.
No planned date, sorry.
The process is more complex than one would first imagine, including ongoing discussion on whether to create a seperate "advanced being" type, with elemental, dragon, avangion, and spirit of the land as subtypes.
What would such a type and subtype imply?
Well, you imagine the rest, which is enough to explain why they haven't come up with the write-ups for a while now. The whole thing is quite complex.
That, and some unforseen and completely unexpected technical difficulties resulting in the main means of communication between the various members being cut off for a while, we're working on it... There's quite a bit of back & forth discussions as wel try to figure out what we feel is the best implementation we can offer, while sticking to the guidelines & rules that WotC imposes for 3.5e compatability.
Pyreen (Peace-bringer)
Medium fey (psionic)
Hit Dice: 4d6 +32 (46hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30’ (6 squares)
AC: 20 (+3 Dex, +4 inertial armor, +3 insight), touch 20, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/ +3
Attacks: Melee +3 (various, damage by weapon +1) or Ranged +5 (various, damage by weapon).
Full Attack: +3 (various, damage by weapon+1) or Ranged +5 (various, damage by weapon).
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Psionics, spells,
Special Qualities: Blood of races, hypercerebral, life sight, scion of the land, scion of the mind, perfect health,
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +10
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 18, Wis 22, Cha 14
Skills: Concentration +12, Craft +8, Diplomacy +9, Disguise +6, Handle Animal +6, Heal +11, Hide +7, Knowledge (history) +11, Knowledge (nature) +13, Knowledge (psionics) +8, Listen +14, Move Silently +7, Sense Motive +10, Spellcraft +9, Piscraft +9, Spot +12, Survival +13.
Feats: Alertness, Combat Casting, Eschew MaterialsB.
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: Double standard +1 medium or better psionic or magical item
Alignment: Always Neutral/ (Good or True)
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +4
(FLUFF TO COME)
Blood of Races (Ex)- During the Rebirth, the pyreen emerged with a strange blend of the best qualities of the halflings and all the Rebirth races; the speed and senses of the elves, the endurance and resolve of the dwarves, the adaptability of humans, and so on. The pyreen may use any item that calls for a specific blood heritage of any of the Rebirth races or halflings due to the unique nature of their blood-line.
Hypercerebral (Ex)- Another unique facet of the pyreen is their ability to learn and understand almost anything. They always treat all class skills as if they were class skills, regardless of the normal skill lists for any class they are in. They also gain additional skill points just like a human does, +4 at first level and an additional +1 for every level they again. These bonus skill points are already figured into the skill totals above.
In addition, this ability is further enhanced by their keen hearing and naturally high intelligence, allowing the pyreen to understand and speak any language spoken by intelligent races. When a peace-bringer is confronted in with a language they do not know, they may make an Intelligence check (DC 25) to understand and speak the language. Failure does not mean they do not understand, only that it will take more time hearing the language for the pyreen to understand and assimilate the syntax of the language. For every point under the DC that the check is failed by, the pyreen must spend an additional minute listening to the language they are trying to understand before they grasp enough of it to speak. Languages “learned” in this fashion are not automatically retained by the pyreen.
Finally, their ability to take in and process a huge amount of information instantly give them the ability to react and almost anticipate others actions, giving them a +3 insight bonus to their armor class.
Lifesight (Ex)- Another benefit of their unique connection to the land is the ability to see the light of living things. This vision is always active and replaces all other forms of vision they would have. To the eyes of the pyreen, the world is constantly lit with the ambient light given off by all living things. Outside, the light given off by the usual plant life in an area is enough to allow a pyreen to see clearly, even on the blackest of nights. In addition sentient creatures give off additional light, depending upon their size, which further illuminates the area or provides the pyreen light to see by in areas indoors. A medium creature provides light that extends out in a 10’ radius. For larger or smaller creatures, take the 10’ radius and multiply or divide it by the number of size categories they are removed from medium-size. For example, a large creature would give off a 20’ radius aura of illumination (one size category larger then medium) while a small creature would only illuminate a 5’ radius area (one size smaller then medium). Undead creatures and areas devoid of life, such as defiled land or the obsidian plains, appear to be utterly black voids to the pyreen’s lifesight.
Perfect Health (Ex)- The pyreen’s strange melding of Rebirth race heritage has given them exceptional vigor and stamina, granting them +20 hp and a +4 racial bonus to all Fortitude saves against disease or poison. The pyreen are also gifted with a lifespan that is so long as to make them effectively immortal. The do appear to age physically, with gray hair and such, but only the most ancient pyreen shows these signs of age. Regardless of their age, a peace-binger never suffers from the penalties of old age. Since the pyreen first emerged from the Rebirth, there has never been record of any pyreen dying of old age.
Scion of the Land (Ex)- All peace-bringers have a unique and soul deep connection to the land and the spirits that inhabit it. As such, they are innately able to channel the power that resides within Athas in the form of druidic magic. Pyreen have a druidic caster level equal to half their hit dice +3 (max 20th level). This caster level stacks with any class levels gained as a druid. A pyreen may exceed the cap of 20 caster levels only if they gain character levels as a druid. They do not gain any of the other class abilities of a druid unless they elect to advance within the druid class. For example, a pyreen with levels as a druid 6/ psion 4 and 4 racial hit dice (ECL 18) would have a caster level of 16 ((14 hit dice/2) +6 druid +3 bonus).
Scion of the Mind (Ex)- The mental make-up of the pyreen is unique in that they are born with fully developed psionic powers, and as they age and gain the experiences and knowledge of the world, their mental abilities become even more potent. All peace-bringers have an innate ability for psionics, and as such they gain powers and power points as a psion of half their hit dice +1 (max 20th level). Manifester levels gained as a psion stack with this ability. A pyreen may exceed the cap of 20 manifester levels only if they gain character levels as a psion. They do not automatically gain a psionic discipline nor do they gain any of the other psion class features such as bonus feats, unless they choose to advance as a psion. So using the same example as above, a pyreen with levels as a druid 6/ psion 4 and 4 racial hit dice (ECL 18) would have a manifeste level of 12 ((14 hit dice/2) +4 psion +1 bonus). Most pyreen favor the discipline of telepathy if they have levels as a psion.
Psionic Powers (power points 17, Manifester level 3, DC 14 + power level.): 1- aura reading (ds), conceal thoughts, empty mind, inertial armor, mind thrust; 2- cloud mind, ego whip.(Note that this list is just an example list and not the standard power set of the pyreen).
Spells Per Day (5/5/4/2; Caster level 5, save DC 16 + spell level): 0- create water, cure minor wounds (2), guidance, mending; 1- cure light wounds, entangle, longstrider, obscuring mist, shillelagh; 2- cure moderate wounds, flame blade, gust of wind, lesser restoration; 3- call lightning, summon natures ally III. (Note that this list is just an example list and not the standard power set of the pyreen).
Feats- As a bonus feat, pyreen’s have the Eschew Material feat, though the benefits of the feat only apply to druidic magic.
Skills- +2 racial bonus to Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (ancient history), Knowledge (history), and Listen checks.
So along with the this, other two kind of vampire spawn, the Appendix II, my template for the New Races, Borys' conversion, my book writing (kinda), and a host of other things that are part of the real I have a lot of things to do.
Oh - and this is a big one - my wife and I are going to have another baby around the end of January 07!
But I like doing this stuff and will always find the time - sleep be damned! It is a crutch for the weak anyway!
Oh - and this is a big one - my wife and I are going to have another baby around the end of January 07!
Congratulations, Kalthandrix!
As for the leader, if you went with the regular conversion he would have been like an 18 level psion and 18th level druid - so 18 + (18/3 rounded down) = 24 character levels or ECL. You could then make him a druid 10/ psion 6/ racial HD 4 with an LA +4 would make him an effective 24th level creature. His caster and manifester level (without feats) would be 23 [(HD 20/2) +10 druid +3 bonus] and 17 [(HD 20/2) + psion 6 + 1 bonus]respectively - a pretty potent force to be reckoned with.
You can take that to the bank!I like it and shall be using it untill 2009 when the Epic bureau is done with the preserver advanced being rules and is arguing over wether or not paraelemental clerics should get to be advanced beings too lol
It's 2009 now? Damn, did they make progress because last I heard it was going to be 2011...
/me runs for the hills
For those of you still wanting pyreen goodness - do not despair - I will have a new version out soon.
And it will continue to suck as usual.
/me runs
:bounce:
And it will continue to suck as usual.
/me runs
:bounce:
Your still breathing, hummm.
That could change, green lizard-boy!
For those of you still wanting pyreen goodness - do not despair - I will have a new version out soon.
About time! It's not like you have had that much to do!!!! :P
About time! It's not like you have had that much to do!!!! :P
Well - my robot ninja pirate story is taking up a little bit of my time, along with a few other projects - but I will have something new put together soon.
BTW - the RNP stuff is almost done - I am putting in some additional material and conducting the first round of editing - but it will be out soon. I just need to find a place to post it or some site to host a doc that people can download.
So if you would like to see the new pyreen, just send a IM or e-mail to brun01 :D
As a PC race with a level adjustment they could be epic I suppose. Have you thought about designing one as a "monste" and then having a progression for it as a PC race playable from level 1? In FR they done that for the Draegloth and Libris Mortis has examples they've done for undea if you're not sure what I'm talking about.
So HERE it is.
For those of you wondering, the new version will not be epic level, but it will be powerful and hold to a lot of the 2e flavor (which I personally think is important) while making it new and interesting (hopefully).
When I do post it, I will alos inclide stats for the leader of the preen race - who will be epic goodness
Later.
The pyreen leader, Alar, will be forthcoming, but I thought I would get this out there now!
Enjoy!
Pyreen (Peace-bringer)
The figure stepping out from what was once a whirling vortex of wind does so with a noble bearing, as though just coming in from dinner in the city. Intense, sorrowful eyes gaze upon you from below finely arched brows.
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Pyreen CR 19
Usually NG Medium fey (psionic, shape-changer)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Listen +26 (16), Search +24 (14), Spot +26 (16)
Languages Ancient Elven, Halfling, Dwarven, Orc, Common, Tyrian, Gnome, polygot
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AC 18, touch 13, flat-footed 16
(+2 Dex, +5 natural, +1 insight)
hp 126 (16 HD); exceptional vigor
Immune defiler’s radius
PR 27, SR 27
Fort +18, Ref +17, Will +21
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Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee +2 parrying returning ironwood dagger +11 (1d4+3/19-20 x2)
Ranged +2 parrying returning ironwood dagger +12 (1d4+3/19-20 x2) or mwk sling +11 (1d4+1/x2)
Base Atk +8; Grp +9
Atk Options Extend Power, Quicken Power
Special Actions reshape form
Combat Gear +2 parrying returning ironwood dagger (awakened), mwk sling with 20 sling bullets, potion-fruit of cure serious wounds (2)(CL 13), potion-fruit of neutralize poison (CL 13)
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Druid Spells Prepared (CL 16th):**
8th—finger of death (DC 24), reverse gravity
7th—creeping doom, maximized elemental strike(DC 20), heal
6th—antilife shell, fire seeds, (DC 22) greater dispel magic, maximized poison (DC 19)
5th—call lightning storm (DC 21), cure critical wounds, maximized restoration, rejuvenation (ds), stoneskin
4th—extended curse of the black sands (ds)(DC 20), elemental strike (DC 20), nondetection, rusting grasp, spike stones (DC 20)
3rd—cure moderate wounds, extended barkskin, greater magical fang, meld into stone, neutralize poison, spike growth (DC 19)
2nd—cat’s grace, delay poison, fire trap (DC 18), flame blade, fog cloud, owl’s wisdom, warp wood (DC 18)
1st—calm animal, cure light wounds, detect snares and pits, goodberry, longstrider, obscuring mist, pass without trace
0—create water, defiler’s scent (ds), detect magic, light, nurturing seeds (ds), read magic
Power Points/Day 269; Psion Powers Known (ML 16th)**
8th—bend reality, hypercognition, true metabolism (DC 24)
7th—energy conversion, fate of one, mind flame (ds) (DC 23)
6th—mass cloud mind, psionic banishment, psionic restoration (DC 22)
5th—baleful teleport*, energy current*, mind probe, psionic true seeing (DC 21)
4th—mental barrier, mindwipe*, psionic freedom of movement, telekinetic maneuver (DC 20)
3rd—body adjustment, dispel psionics, hostile empathic transfer*, psionic blast*, (DC 19)
2nd—detect hostile intent, ego whip*, energy missile*, sensitivity to psionic impressions (DC 18)
1st—astral construct, empty mind, inertial armor, mind link, mind thrust* (DC 17)
*The save DCs for these powers might increase with the use of augments
** These are only suggested spells and powers – pyreen vary greatly in their spell and power selection.
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Abilities Str 12, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 23, Wis 22, Cha 17
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SQ blood of races, druidic prodigy, innate psionic mastery, naturally skilled, sustained by land
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Feats Craft Wonderous Item, Extend Spell, Maximize Spell, Natural Spell (B), Psionic Meditation
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Skills Concentration +23 (19), Diplomacy +23 (18), Handle Animal +18 (15), Hide +18 (16), Knowledge (ancient history) +24 (18), Knowledge (geography) +20 (14), Knowledge (nature) +25 (17), Knowledge (psionics) +22 (16), Psicraft +25 (19), Sense Motive +22 (16), Spellcraft +25 (19), Survival +22 (14)(+2 to avoid getting lost, avoid hazards, follow tracks, and in above ground environments).
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Advancement by character class; Favored Class as human; see text
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Possessions combat gear plus amulet of natural armor +5, vest of resistance+4, bracelet of friends (2 charms unassigned), traveler’s clothes, assortment of gems worth 2,000 Cp, assortment of loose coin worth 500 Cp
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Polygot: Pyreen can speak, read, or write any language.
Exceptional Vigor: The pyreen connection to the spirits of Athas infuses their bodies with youth and an exceptional resiliance.
As such pyreen have a life-span so long that they are effectively immortal – they do age, but there has never been a pyreen that his died of old age.
Also, pyreen also gain +20 hit points and a +4 to all Fortitude saves.
Spell & Psionic Resistance: Pyreen are naturally resistance to both the Unseen Way and magic. They have a SP/PR equal to 11+ their total hit dice.
Immunity to Defiler’s Radius: Pyreen are naturally immune to the effects caused by being caught within a defiler’s radius.
Reshape Form (Su): Pyreen can change their form similar to that of a druid equal to their hit dice, but can do so at will. A pyreen in an alternate form retains their ability to speak.
Blood of Races (Ex): During the Rebirth, the pyreen emerged with a strange blend of the best qualities of the halflings and all the Rebirth races; the speed and senses of the elves, the endurance and resolve of the dwarves, the adaptability of humans, and so on. The pyreen may use any item that calls for a specific blood heritage of any of the Rebirth races or halflings due to the unique nature of their blood-line.
As a side effect of this though, it also means that weapons that have the bane quality against halflings or any of the Rebirth races, as well as fey, psionic creatures, and shapeshifters, work against pyreen as well.
Druidic Prodigy: All pyreen are deeply bound to Athas and the Spirits of the Land that inhabit it. It is due to this strong connection that pyreen gain the ability to cast spells as a druid equal to their hit dice. In addition, this strong bond with the land also makes it so that pyreen never need pray for their spells – they received them automatically at the rising of each new day.
When using druidic magic, pyreen are treated as if they had the Ignore Material Components feat and do not require a divine focus to cast their spells.
Innate Psionic Mastery: Psioncs come as naturally to the pyreen as breathing does to most other creatures. A pyreen can manifest psionic powers and has a psionic reserve of power points as a psion equal to their hit dice. In addition, when selecting their psionic powers, pyreen are not limited to selecting a single discipline – they can select powers from any discipline list and the general psionic/wilder power lists
Naturally Skilled: Like humans, pyreen are adaptable to many situations and have a natural aptitude for learning new crafts and skills. Pyreen start with +4 bonus skill points with 1 HD and gain a +1 to their skill points for each HD or level gained thereafter.
In addition, certain skills are always considered class skills for the pyreen, regardless of which class they actually belong to. This skills are Concentration, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Hide, Knowledge (ancient history), Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (psionics), Listen, Psicraft, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, and Survival.
Sustained By Land: Pyreen are totally sustained by the land and have no need to consume food or water. They can choose to eat, but suffer no ill effects if they do not.
Feats: Pyreen gain Natural Spell as a bonus racial feat.
Skills: Pyreen receive a +4 racial bonus on Listen, Search, Spot checks. An pyreen who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if he were actively looking for it.
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The pyreen are one of the most unique and naturally powerful races that inhabit Athas – being somehow connected directly to the vey spirits that suffuse the earth and being born with the potent abilities of both druid magic and psionics. The peace-bringers are for the most part immortal wanderers attempting to shore up the decaying land about them, but there numbers are few and the task becomes harder every year.
Strategies and Tactics
Pyreen dislike entering combat, but when they do so, they hold nothing back as they bring to bear the powers of both a master of the Unseen Way and a powerful druid.
In battle, the pyreen will always single out defilers and unleash their most potent attacks against them first in hopes of reducing the level of damage a protracted battle with a defiler can cause the land. They will continue to single out defilers until the enemy wizards are dead, or another foe presents themselves as a more immediate threat.
A favored tactic is to catch a group of foes with their maximized elemental strike and follow that up with reverse gravity to quickly remove most combatants from the battle field.
A pyreen will never rush into battle without first casting defensive enchantments or manifesting their protective powers to ensure their own continued existance
Sample Encounters
Pyreen rarely approach other creatures in their natural form and will often observe a group for hours or days before making their presence known.
Strange Dream (EL ??): A sleeping character experiences a strange dream in which a beautiful member of their race and opposite sex asks him or her about themselves and their companions. This is just the pyreen using their mind probe power in an attempt to gauge the PCs intentions.
Ecology
The full history of the pyreen is known only to members of their own race, though it is know by a few well learned scholars that they came into being at the same time as the rest of the Rebirth races. They know much about the early days of all the Rebirth races, the Green Age, Cleansing Wars, and the many of the events that have lead the world of Athas to its current state, but will not divulge this information, not even to save their own lives. If a pyreen is especially taken with a PC or group, they may discuss with them the current state of the world and things that can be done to fix it, but never will they talk about how Athas used to be in Ages past.
Pyreen neither need to eat or drink – being able to draw their substance directly from the land, which in turn means that they have no need to hunt and have no natural predators.
Environment: Pyreen have no real place within the ecology of Athas – but they seek to impact it in a positive manner. These powerful beings will sometimes settle into an area for 50 to 100 years at a time, but usually they are travelers; moving about Athas as they will and attempting to restore the blasted landscape whenever they can.
Typical Physical Characteristics: Pyreen have no truly singular, defining racial trait. Instead, they have physical characteristics of all the Rebirth races and halflings. Pointed ears, childlike faces, round eyes , thick or thin bodies – each pyreen has their own unique mix of these features. In most cases, their true physical form does not matter though. When a pyreen is encountered they will usually either be in an animal form or like just another average looking traveler.
Alignment: Pyreen encountered by PCs are usually neutral good. They are kind creatures, but their long lives and driving mission to see to the restoration of Athas can make them seem unsympathetic to the plights of short lived races.
Society
Pyreen are very solitary creatures. They have no known cities nor do they congregate together in numbers. Most lead the lives of solitary wanderers while going about their individual missions for restoring Athas.
The pyreen do have a leader, Alar Ch’Aranol, who may quite possibly be the oldest living being on Athas. Alar issues no orders though nor does he expect loyalty from the rest of his fiercely independent race.
Pyreen can instantly recognize others of their race, regardless of what form they are currently in.
Typical Treasure
Pyreen have standard treasure for NPCs of their Challenge Rating, about 77,000 Cp. This equipment is usually in the form of magic and psionic protection devises and at least one easily concealed weapon. They also favor wands, staffs, and other such devises to augment their already considerable psionic and magical abilities.
Pyreen with Class Levels
Like humans, pyreen are naturally adaptable different classes, and therefore it is their highest level class that does not count when determining if they have an experience point penalty. With their natural aptitude, many pyreen take levels as either a druid or psion.
Level Adjustment: +6
Pyreen Lore
Characters with ranks in Knowledge (nature) or Knowledge (psionics) can learn more about pyreen. When a character makes a successful skill check, the following lore is revealed, including the information from lower DCs.
So this thing is only CR 19? That doesn't seem very fitting to me. Or Epic enough. :P
See post #98 ..|..
So this thing is only CR 19? That doesn't seem very fitting to me. Or Epic enough. :P
Pyreen weren't really that tough of a monster in 2nd edition. In 2nd ed they were 13th lvl psions, 16th level Druids, 16-20 hit dice.
With Kals build you can play one at level 25 in an epic game. I really like the work he has done on it. Minor quibble is I think the CR is only about 16 or 17 on it and not 19. It doesn't have enough hit points, spell/power resistence or AC etc when compared to other CR 19 beasties in the D&D universe. Reshape Form should just be called Wildshape as thats basically what it is unless I read the description wrong.
Pyreen weren't really that tough of a monster in 2nd edition. In 2nd ed they were 13th lvl psions, 16th level Druids, 16-20 hit dice.
With Kals build you can play one at level 25 in an epic game. I really like the work he has done on it. Minor quibble is I think the CR is only about 16 or 17 on it and not 19. It doesn't have enough hit points, spell/power resistence or AC etc when compared to other CR 19 beasties in the D&D universe. Reshape Form should just be called Wildshape as thats basically what it is unless I read the description wrong.
The reason for the CR is the SR/PR, attribute mods, equal caster & manifester level to HD, and basically a free Epic feat pre-epic levels (ignore material component for druid spells) I thought was a good reason for the CR. That was my reasoning at least and that number is changable - this critter has not seen any playtesting - which it the only true test there is for something as subjective as CR (and even EL for that matter).
As for hp and AC - well both of those are base - so it does not take into account the number for powers or spells that they could use to increase these numbers to really great heights - which is also why I stated in the tatics part that they do not enter into combat prior to buffing them selves. Also think about it - with their reshape form they can take the shape of most any creature and get alot of buffs with that as well as still being able to use all their spells and psionic abilities.
Thanks for the kind words - I hope that everyone likes it too and will get some use out of it.
Oh - one thing - its ECL would only be 16 + 6 = 22, I do not think you use their CR for factoring ECL, but I could be wrong.
And you will be seeing an epic pyreen soon - Alar will be have like 11 character levels, I am just trying to settle on in what class(es)
A CR 19 critter in theory is as tough as an EL 19 encounter. The Pyreen at CR 19 should be on par with 3 level 16 NPCs to provide a challenge for the PCs. CR is also a huge rule of thumb. A Great Wurm Red Dragon is CR 24 or 25, the LA is +20 and it has 30 something hit dice so you need an epic game of lvl 50 something PCs to have a GW Red Dragon as a PC!!!!
Confused yet?
Anyway there is a PrC for Wizard/Druids in Races of the Wild called Arcan Heirophant. You could easily adapt it to a Psion/Druid PrC.
:D
See post #98 ..|..
Pyreen weren't really that tough of a monster in 2nd edition. In 2nd ed they were 13th lvl psions, 16th level Druids, 16-20 hit dice.
Sarcasm people. Sarcasm.
EL, CR and LA are entirely different things. I was sort of thinking about doing the Pyeen and was aiming for CR 16 with 16HD and hopefully a LA of +4 .
A CR 19 critter in theory is as tough as an EL 19 encounter. The Pyreen at CR 19 should be on par with 3 level 16 NPCs to provide a challenge for the PCs. CR is also a huge rule of thumb. A Great Wurm Red Dragon is CR 24 or 25, the LA is +20 and it has 30 something hit dice so you need an epic game of lvl 50 something PCs to have a GW Red Dragon as a PC!!!!
Confused yet?
Anyway there is a PrC for Wizard/Druids in Races of the Wild called Arcan Heirophant. You could easily adapt it to a Psion/Druid PrC.
Yeahhh...I know the difference (see my post because I say that I know about the differences and also explain that the CR might not be right -- it was an estimate that might need to be playtested, as I said). And the LA was just a crap shoot too - because it is subjective.
The ability scores need a little more work, but I think this is damn near perfect of what I had originally envisioned for them.
Again great job.
Great job Kal, much better than the previous weaker version. ;)
The ability scores need a little more work, but I think this is damn near perfect of what I had originally envisioned for them.
Again great job.
Thanks.
I would like to point out that the first version was not really "weaker" - it just had the base creature at less HD - if you were to give my original version 16 HD they would be about the same I think (I do not know exactly because I have not done so).
The reason for the abilities scores being what they are is that there were none on the pyreen entry - so I did not know what to go with. But, I think I will use the attribute scores from Alar (which are Str 19 [3.5 equivilant to 2e Str of 18(50)], Dex 19, Con 17, Int 20, Wis 23, Cha 19) as the "base" pyreen scores already modified for HD and racial mods, and then increase his for his added levels.
I also was wondering if maybe these fellers should not receive all druidic abilities equal to their HD? Thoughts?
I'm leaning towards no just based on gut feeling. Also do you want to Pyreen to be a viable PC race? More abilities= higher LA. Higher LA makes them unplayable. Theres a reason why races with a LA higher than +1 tend to suck.
Would they stil get Druidic abilities if they took levels in another class? Would a Pyreen/Fighter 4 have the abilities of a level 20 Druid?
I'm leaning towards no just based on gut feeling. Also do you want to Pyreen to be a viable PC race? More abilities= higher LA. Higher LA makes them unplayable. Theres a reason why races with a LA higher than +1 tend to suck.
Did you read my post? Because what I was thinking was spelled out there.
As for being a viable PC race, well, more than likely not. I made my first version with that in mind and some people loved it and others hated it - that version was one that could be used for PCs. This version I do not think would be a good idea to have as a PC class.
I have made two versions and I cannot please everyone, but you know what, if you can do something better - please - fell free to do so.
Did you read my post? Because what I was thinking was spelled out there.
As for being a viable PC race, well, more than likely not. I made my first version with that in mind and some people loved it and others hated it - that version was one that could be used for PCs. This version I do not think would be a good idea to have as a PC class.
I have made two versions and I cannot please everyone, but you know what, if you can do something better - please - fell free to do so.
I was thiniking if you wanted to make it a playabel PC race drop the psionic level down to lvl 13 a'la 2nd ed and lower the abiulity score modifiers. +4 int and/or wisdom? and have a +4 LA for it.
Pyreen PC or level 20 PC?
Since you don't really care about if it can be a PC race I think it would be fine as a CR 16 critter and your LA seems to be about right.
As for being a viable PC race, well, more than likely not. I made my first version with that in mind and some people loved it and others hated it - that version was one that could be used for PCs. This version I do not think would be a good idea to have as a PC class.
Suggestion Kal.
How about a half-breed race of pyreen for those players that would like to play a pyreen like character at lower levels?
Ravenloft did something similar with half-vistani for those players wishing to play a vistani type character without being an actual ECL 1+ race.