Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Feb 07, 2006 21:13:26	I'm surprised there hasn't been an Amber and Iron thread yet (unless I somehow missed it). It should be pretty obvious that this thread will contain MAJOR spoilers so you're warned. First of all, there are going to be a few D&D games out there where some DMs use the Beloved template to beat the heck out of their players (I'm tempted ;) ). I got a good laugh out of the idea of the Black Robes recruiting armies of children. It'll definitely provide some good moral challenges for PCs. The Towers being divided into Orders again is a nice touch; I presume that all Orders are allowed at all Towers but each Order will maintain mastery over their specific Tower. Of course there's the problem of the Master of the Tower template needing to be changed in the future to accomodate Black Robes in the Blood Sea and White Robes in Nightlund, specifically in the associated Domains. Any official word on this? I like the little mention of the High God coming to get Takhisis's soul. Essentially he's still around and aware of what's happening but doesn't want to interfere. As for the doozy (if you just wanted little spoilers and not the BIG one, stop reading!): I usually spoil the books for myself by taking a look at the end but this time it was actually by accident. It's going to be interesting to hear the explanation of what the heck Mina (or whatever she was known prior to the War of Souls) has been up to for over 9,000 years. We've already seen in Dragons of a Vanished Moon that Paladine does not become a god again (the sad future where Mishakal has to say goodbye to him) so basically regardless of which side of the pantheon Mina decides to join there will be a shift in the Balance. If she goes Evil then we already know that Paladine won't be back (above). And she can't go Good since Margaret Weis has apparently stated that Takhisis won't be back. Maybe this was the reason that Paladine wanted her kept secret: to preserve the Balance. Of course a simpler solution would've been for he and Mishakal not to have had 3 children (Habbakuk, Kiri-Jolith and Solinari). Mina being a god also means that Holy Orders is already out of date . I understand that putting Mina in there would've been a huge spoiler but perhaps in retrospect releasing say Knightly Orders first and then Holy Orders now might've been a better option. Are we supposed to interpret her stats in Age of Mortals as an avatar stats or just ignore them?
#2 zombiegleemax Feb 07, 2006 21:55:44	I just realized the irony of Takhisis sending Mina as her main cleric and then calling herself the "One God". Nice touch!
#3 zombiegleemax Feb 08, 2006 11:57:42	Mina being a god also means that Holy Orders is already out of date . I understand that putting Mina in there would've been a huge spoiler but perhaps in retrospect releasing say Knightly Orders first and then Holy Orders now might've been a better option. You may not believe this, but when Holy Orders was being written, we had no idea this was going to be the case as far as Mina is concerned.
#4 Sysane Feb 08, 2006 13:53:23	I have no plans to read this book, but would like to know what the real story with Mina is. If you could tell me here or in a PM it would be greatly appreciated.
#5 zombiegleemax Feb 08, 2006 18:59:17	Sysane: as for Mina's background: the fact that she is a god (once a god of Good) is literally revealed on the last page of the book so we're all waiting for the explanation. She glows with an amber light in the book a few times and then raises the Tower of the Blood Sea onto its own island NE of Flotsam (a pretty big hint at some sort of divinity) but as to how no one knew about her all we know is that Majere swore to Paladine he'd keep it secret. Not much else is revealed in the book. Whyndam: You may not believe this, but when Holy Orders was being written, we had no idea this was going to be the case as far as Mina is concerned. I believe you; it's just kinda funny that the most recent book is already out of date. I'm curious as to why Margaret Weis didn't let you guys in on it: I would've figured the employees of SP would know all sorts of stuff ahead of time but be signed to non-disclosure agreements.
#6 zombiegleemax Feb 08, 2006 21:59:22	so if mina's a god, frmerly a god of good, and there should be balance, what about the other two orders? are there another two hidden gods, one of neutrality and another of evil?
#7 zombiegleemax Feb 08, 2006 22:04:11	Ask Margaret Weis. I've recently gone to the dl3e.com boards where she posted and pretty much any idea anyone has come up with is wrong according to her so she's the only one who knows.
#8 zombiegleemax Feb 09, 2006 1:07:06	Is the novel actually out? If so please let me know for sure. Forgive me, but I can tell from the posts here that if its not out you guys got some inside info.
#9 darthsylver Feb 09, 2006 2:53:42	The book is out. Some people are just really fast readers that is all. Mine is sitting on a shelf with Star Wars: Outbound Flight & Promise of the Witch King. I am trying to catch up on my Mechwarrior books.
#10 zombiegleemax Feb 09, 2006 8:45:59	Either way could someone put the beloved up here if they have it? Or perhaps send me a personal message? I'll really appreciate it. I don't know if you're the same person who was asking about this on DragonlanceForums.com, but it is a copyright violation for anyone to post the Beloved on this board or in a PM or e-mail. Anyone caught doing so will be banned from this board, and will be referred to Wizards of the Coast's legal department. Amber and Iron is only $25.95. Save your money and go buy the book if you want the template for the Beloved so badly.
#11 Dragonhelm Feb 09, 2006 9:28:49	The book is cheaper still through Amazon.com - only $17.97, IIRC. Add another $8 to that and you get free shipping. You can order a copy through the Nexus and help support the site by clicking here.
#12 zombiegleemax Feb 12, 2006 14:31:02	The pantheon is still out of balance. Neutral has 7 and everyone else has 6. Also, makes sense that Mina was or is a goddess. All the stuff she did in War of Souls could be from her powers and not The Dark Queens. Like the killing of Beryl and the other evil Dragons. since Mina is good, the evil dragon might have sensed that power, etc. Was Dalamar in the book? I haven't read it yet. I just opened the last page to see how many pages there were and read the last paragraph, so that made me read the last chapter and Majere said that he promised Takhisis to keep the secret about Mina being divine . Weird, I thought gods and goddesses of neutrality are not supposed to favor one side or the other. They are supposed to be "fair and balanced" lol. Not move to the right or to the left.
#13 darthsylver Feb 12, 2006 15:11:15	Majere is a god of the light, not neutrality.
#14 zombiegleemax Feb 12, 2006 16:08:20	I believe you; it's just kinda funny that the most recent book is already out of date. I'm curious as to why Margaret Weis didn't let you guys in on it: I would've figured the employees of SP would know all sorts of stuff ahead of time but be signed to non-disclosure agreements. Each time a new Dragonlance novel comes out in set in the current time period (which I'm happy to say is quite a few each year) it inevitably makes our sourcebook slightly behind the times. And since we are bound by contract to follow the novels, we cannot spoil or include world-impacting information in our sourcebooks -- no matter the temptation. So that's why Mina's status and and the full game information for The Beloved could not go in Holy Orders. I actually was aware of Mina's situation during the middle of the book's development -- but that was a piece of information that should be read exactly where Margaret intended: the end of her novel. Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#15 zombiegleemax Feb 13, 2006 21:37:25	I wonder what's gonna happen in Amber and Blood. Would be cool for the cousins to oust Nuitari for not telling them that he built the tower in the blood see. And have Raistlin become the master of the Black Moon. Also, I was watching some bible movies on tbn and kind of thought of Dragonlance but without dragons. They could make a movie or a TV series of DL. Remember Hercules and Xena? Also, think of Lord of The Rings. Does anyone think that some stories in DL parallel the stories and legends of every religion in the world? I do to a certain extent.
#16 darthsylver Feb 14, 2006 6:10:06	I wouldn't think that Solinari & Lunitari would try to get rid of nuitari for RESTORING a tower. I mean they did not do anything to him when he was working with his mom during the WoTL. Rebuilding the tower actually gives wizards another place to retreat from the world and study magic. Granted he was a little late in telling them but hey, he is evil and they know that.
#17 zombiegleemax Feb 14, 2006 10:43:20	I don't know if you're the same person who was asking about this on DragonlanceForums.com, but it is a copyright violation for anyone to post the Beloved on this board or in a PM or e-mail. Anyone caught doing so will be banned from this board, and will be referred to Wizards of the Coast's legal department. Well I don't know. If you use it as a quote and give the author's name, book title and page number listed as a source, I think youcould get away w/ it. I mean I have to quote authors and stuff all the time in my papers, as long as you are giving credit to the author. Plus you may want to stop e-mails and stuff but its hard to stop instant messaging, and e-mails such as g-mail, yahoo, ect... Other then that, hells yeah free information should be banned go buy all those expensive books. /roll-eyes
#18 zombiegleemax Feb 14, 2006 12:00:11	Sure Solinari and Lunitari were a little ticked over not being told about the new/rebuilt Tower right away but they did accept Nuitari's offer to split up the Towers, giving one to each Order, so they may not trust Nuitari as much anymore but I doubt they'll stop dealing with him.
#19 zombiegleemax Feb 15, 2006 19:42:44	Well, now that we know the secret. Mina does not know yet. I imagine she'll know in Amber and Blood (can't wait for this book to come out. Kinda like the anticipation of Episode III). I've read Amber and Iron word for word in about 9 hours. Of course I took breaks and such. Now this is a thought: That's why Paladine looked at Mina in sorrow when Mina threatened him in Vanished Moon. So it seems like Takhisis, Majere, and Paladine were the only gods that knew. You know what that meant, right? It meant that the scales were unbalanced since the chronicles series. Maybe that's why Takhisis wanted her whole god form and not just her avatar to occupy Krynn. Her god form is the 5 headed dragon, right? What if: Mina was just playing the gods and mortals and she knew that she was a goddess since the War of Souls Trilogy? What a thought, huh. I guess Midori knew she was a goddess somehow. What if she played the other gods/goddesses and mortals in order to claim Krynn for herself. She already has her Beloved for herself. The beloved only listen to Mina and no one else, so that's a clue. She gave Galdar his arm in War of Souls. She raised the tower of the Blood Sea and maybe wants to claim the holy artifacts for herself and rule the world. What kind of goddess does everyone think Mina was or will become? I think she will be the leader of the darkside and take the Dark Lady's throne. In case everyone kinda forgot. The scales are still unbalanced. 7 Neutral, 6 Light, and 6 Dark with Mina being a wild card. So if Mina goes to the darkside then one of the Neutral gods has to go to the lightside or maybe there's another god somewhere or someplace. Rhys as a god? I don't know. Also, I know this is far fetched, but maybe Mina is somehow related to Raistlin and the Irda woman that Raistlin was supposedly with that one faithful night in the cave.
#20 father_dale Feb 16, 2006 1:21:04	So Mina is divine now? Thats just wonderful. Whats with the trend in Dragonlance to elevate teenage girls to positions of ultimate power? Its getting a bit tiring.
#21 zombiegleemax Feb 18, 2006 16:58:42	It's kinda sexy lmao.
#22 zombiegleemax Feb 21, 2006 17:53:23	So Mina is divine now? Thats just wonderful. Whats with the trend in Dragonlance to elevate teenage girls to positions of ultimate power? Its getting a bit tiring. Yeah! Damn those teenage... sexy, unbridled, skirt wearing 18 year old women who just crawl of Arizona State University..... Oh back on topic, I just finished reading A&I not 10 mins ago and I must say that I understand leaving cliff hanger endings so that you will wanna by the next one but sheesh, there is sooooo much left un-answered so now we are going to have topics of the subject for like a year. But the sample chapter from Dragons of the dwarven depths was friggin awesome, it brought back so many many old memories. Well I'm off to take a cold shower... By the way, CAM! you really need to level up some... :D
#23 Granakrs Feb 23, 2006 11:49:07	By the way, CAM! you really need to level up some... :D Cam needs to level up? the Beloved Template is a pretty powerful in itself. Oh, and in case no one has said so, Here's a shout out to the guys listed in the Dedication. Woo Hoo! Weldon
#24 zombiegleemax Feb 26, 2006 12:35:36	Cam needs to level up? the Beloved Template is a pretty powerful in itself. Well I'm Chaotic Neutral, I'll just *****SPOILER******* Throw a baby at him. (I know its children, but w/e)
#25 zombiegleemax Feb 27, 2006 2:50:31	I had to order Amber and Iron from the states as I couldn't wait for an Aussie release. It cost me $46:50 (aussie), and it was worth every cent. I finished it in a day, and when I came to the cliff hanger at the end, I could have cried with frustration. I am so pleased for Rhys that his faith in his God, and himself, has been restored. During Amber and Ashes, I found myself rooting for Chemosh. Dark, sexy, misunderstood, passionate, etc, kind of like Lord Soth or Dalamar. But even at their most evil they would never have set up a fail-safe like the Lord of Death. Children! Didn't see that one coming at all. I loved reading this and cannot wait for the next installment. Does any one know when that will likely be?
#26 jrblasingame Mar 17, 2006 18:23:05	You know what that meant, right? It meant that the scales were unbalanced since the chronicles series. Maybe that's why Takhisis wanted her whole god form and not just her avatar to occupy Krynn. Her god form is the 5 headed dragon, right? What it means is that the balance was out of wack for way longer than just the Chronicals. She is eons old according to Majere..so unless there is some other "suprise" gods showing up, the balance has been out of wack since the beginning of Krynn's creation. JBlasingame
#27 illeveun_bloodblaze Mar 29, 2006 21:37:48	The thing is, if mina was incapacitated for alll of those years, and only really started living when she showed up at the citadel of light. the balance really wouldn't be out of whack, would it? As long as she couldn't meddle in the other gods affairs, there would be no harm in her, and so there would no problem. The balance would still be viable.
#28 zombiegleemax Apr 14, 2006 23:20:40	did anyone ever think that the balance created mina when takhisis was banished by huma so that the dark side was not out represented by the light side of the balance. So basically we an go all the way back to huma according t4o my theory. That would make Mina very old. But since Takhisis was never actually killed Mina was not actually unleashed onto the cosmos. When Takhisis was released then it freed up Mina's powers. Now the logical progression is to re-instate Paladine as the 7th cting member of the gods of light once Mina comes to power.
#29 chuff80 Apr 15, 2006 1:43:26	I'm with Cerberys on this. I think that it will be possible to bring Paladine back. I've been planning on doing just that in my current DL game that I'm DMing. I was even planning on having Mina take Takhisis' place. It was wierd when Amber & Iron came out, b/c I was like...great, now my players are gonna know what I'm doing...anyway.... IMO - Tracy Hickman's essays on balance and the High God are interesting. I think that Mina was created a long time ago by the High God to come into a situation such as we're seeing. The High God foresaw this happening, and he'll set the balance right again through her.
#30 darthsylver Apr 15, 2006 10:05:05	Well considering that Mina is (or was) a god of light, I think Paladine is still out of luck on coming back. As as for what is happening I think it is more likely that Ariakan will be set up to take takhisis's place. Otherwise what is the point of using him throughout the series. Yeah i know that he is Zeboim's son and he can be used against her, but I don't think it is just that. I think something else is going on. Besides, where is Hiddukel in all this? All the other gods of darkness have at least been mentioned or had some scheme (in another trilogy), so where is the conniving dude. I think he has got some monster of a plan for becoming the leader of the dark gods.
#31 zombiegleemax Apr 22, 2006 12:25:04	According to the appendix, Majere came from somewhere beyond to serve Paladine. I don't see why that couldn't be the same case with Mina. ( Paladine + Mishakul = Solinari,Habbakuk,and Kiri). Majere and most of the neutral gods came out of the cosmos somehow.
#32 zombiegleemax May 01, 2006 21:29:27	What it means is that the balance was out of wack for way longer than just the Chronicals. She is eons old according to Majere..so unless there is some other "suprise" gods showing up, the balance has been out of wack since the beginning of Krynn's creation. JBlasingame So then is Mina the daughter of Thakisis and Paladine?