Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Feb 08, 2006 10:38:37	This came up in another thread where people were complaining about the portrayal of the Green Age as Forgotten Realms + Psionics. In particular, folks were complaining about how a Dungeon Adventure ("Grave Circumstances") presented Athasian trolls as the standard AD&D trolls. I couldn't agree more with those complaints and I think that it is important to make the Green Age of Athas unique. At the same time we can't go overboard and make Goblins into a race of rambunctious, sun-loving pirates. The thing that makes Dark Sun so compelling it's both its familiarity and its uniqueness. So what do you picture about the Green Age that makes it unique to various Tolkien-esque / Forgotten Realms settings? The first answer that comes to my head is "Halflings!" Halflings, of course, wouldn't be the same on Athas. During the Blue Age, they were masters of the planet. What happened during the Green Age? Why did they fall from grace (devolving into the savage flesh-eaters we know now?)? Why did some of the Halflings choose to be reborn as "rebirth races" while other's didn't? What happened to their life-shaping technology / culture? Unlike other fantasy settings, I think that it is important to give a little bit more "flexibility" to the so-called "evil" races. I think that simply calling them "evil" may work for your typical Tolkien-esque story-line, but Athas requires more complexity. If Orcs are simply evil, then there is nothing wrong with launching a genocidal war to eliminate them. I've never read RAFODK, so I don't know how Lynn Abbey protrayed Athasian trolls, but what I am curious about is: how did she make the trolls of Athas unique, while still allowing them to be trolls? Please give your input on the Green Age. itf PS: I think that it would be great if Green Age Paladins are remembered as Quixotic fools, with plenty of story's about them calling upon non-existent gods and getting obliterated when their gods failed to protect them.
#2 nightdruid Feb 08, 2006 11:05:25	Well, we know Athas had to have had culture(s) that created such things as plate armor. I don't think I'd get entirely hung up on that. I think personally, I'd look at the cultures that inspired the city-states (Sumar, Babalyon, Egypt, Africa, Aztecs, etc) for ideas. Maybe instead of europe-like meadows & forests, make it more savannah-like, with rainforests and dry forests (like the American west).
#3 Sysane Feb 08, 2006 11:21:08	Personally, I've never had an issue with races during the Green Age being portrayed as their "standard world" counterparts. To me, thats what makes Athas even more tragic and unique. The races that survived the Cleansing Wars were forced to change from their standard roles (as depicted in worlds like GH and FR) due to the bleak and harsh changes to Athas' environment. Those that didn't were wiped from the face of Athas due to their races inability to adapt to those changes.
#4 Pennarin Feb 08, 2006 12:05:07	This is funny, cause from all I've read about the height of the Green Age it was nothing like modern day or even ancient Toril. There were no flying fortresses (and no, Rajaat's hovering inverted pyramid does not count), giant magical empires, and all that crap. Gargantuan subteranean highways are not fantastic, just enormous feats of physical engeneering. They are not even psionic. Its the platforms levitated by psions, using them as hovercraft, and used exclusively within the tunnels, which are psionic. Anyways, that's about it. Athas.org's description of Green Age Tar-elon (under the Meorty entry) is a far cry from FR.
#5 cnahumck Feb 08, 2006 12:18:23	I have always imagined that the green age was this age of great knowledge. I picture libraries where obsidain orbed sages contain lore, hovering platforms that moved important people or large stores of goods. I like that the general consesus is that the races that were cleansed should be different than their "standard" conterparts. I also think that once the age of magic started, that it was welcomed and included into the existing systems without too much problem. (leaving out the fact that rajaat only taught preserver magic, while deflier magic is MUCH easier.) I am interested in how people picture green age "tech and life." do you see psionic cell phones, elevators, "kankless" carraiges, and the like around for most folks, or was it a rare thing? The Green Age to me should be one where the presence and influence of psionic is so high that it is viewed as a tool to shape the world, just like life shaping was for the Nature Masters. It's effects should be that apperant and all-encompasing.
#6 Pennarin Feb 08, 2006 12:39:11	The Darkness Before the Dawn presented an idea called thinkercraft: simple mechanical technology from the time of the Ancients. Mainly crude elevators, windmills, central heating for buildings, multi-story high-rise buildings, hand-crancked water pumps, longviews. Probably a hundred other inventions now long lost. These I believe would have seen widespread use among the jewels of the Green Age (Giustenal, Tyr, all the great cities). In addition to magic and psionics, and their items, the Green Age would have been a great place to live in, just not FR.
#7 zombiegleemax Feb 08, 2006 13:20:17	So what do you picture about the Green Age that makes it unique to various Tolkien-esque / Forgotten Realms settings? The first answer that comes to my head is "Halflings!" Halflings, of course, wouldn't be the same on Athas. During the Blue Age, they were masters of the planet. What happened during the Green Age? Why did they fall from grace (devolving into the savage flesh-eaters we know now?)? Why did some of the Halflings choose to be reborn as "rebirth races" while other's didn't? What happened to their life-shaping technology / culture? Those who survived and were isolated (Windriders) were guarded by Pyreen and kept away from the other races (because they still had life shaping technology) or they degenerated into the feral forest halflings we all know and love :D I went with the idea a long time ago that the forest halflings were some of the descendants of the nature benders who were almost hunted into extinction. Unlike other fantasy settings, I think that it is important to give a little bit more "flexibility" to the so-called "evil" races. I think that simply calling them "evil" may work for your typical Tolkien-esque story-line, but Athas requires more complexity. If Orcs are simply evil, then there is nothing wrong with launching a genocidal war to eliminate them. These are sketchily remembered ideas I used some times ago to work out a Green Age background. A potted history… (a did a detailed timeline years ago and then lost the damn thing) (-14,000 to -10,500) I took goblins, orcs and orges and placed them to the east across from the Tablelands and Ur Draxa where they created their own empire in the vast jungles and mountain ranges. These races had been adapted to the heat and rigours of such a demanding environment. Many colonies eventually fell victim to the Nikaal and their servants, when they explored too far to the east. Over a thousand years after the Rebirth. Two main human groups were at war. I placed a hostile expanding one to the north of the Troll Grave chasm and one to the south in the Tablelands. The war culminated in the unleashing of major elemental powers and the creation of the huge magma rift, needless to say the southern powers won and having suffered gravely established many peaceful city-states. The Lawkeepers were created to maintain this peace; those who excelled gave their lives as Meorties (sp?). Other human groups had spread out to evade the continual warfare of the early Green Age and the elves took to the seas. The elves established many colonies throughout Athas and explored more of the world than any other race. Essentially the first few thousand years were a time of growth, expansion and conflicting power bases until they settled into the setting described by the Mindlords boxed set. (-10,500 to - c.7,000) The middle period of the Green Age were a psionic setting. I guess it would be similar to the arcane magic of Ebberon or the Iron Kingdoms, with psionics permeating all aspects of everyday life. (-7,000 - -5,000) A decline in psionics after the fall of Celik and the rise of faith with druids and priests subtly re-invigorating the worship of the elements. PS: I think that it would be great if Green Age Paladins are remembered as Quixotic fools, with plenty of story's about them calling upon non-existent gods and getting obliterated when their gods failed to protect them. Gods :D , I do go for gods but not in the traditional sense. Here’s my brief take on it… During the early Green Age elemental clerics slowly rose in power and through the sheer numbers of followers and faith elevated many powerful elemental beings to the level of deities, these were ascribed names, powers etc., and vast temples were raised to them. The priesthoods were the power behind the aggressive northern empire, which saw the more enlightened psionic based southern states as a threat. The devastation caused by the war created a backlash against religion that saw the relatively brief flourishing of elemental divine power wither for several thousand years. Later this was re-established through druids and priests with small shrines, temples and minor elemental deities. Of the various races, the lionhead giants had a harmonious blend of psionic and religious faith. This race spread out and although few in number raised many temples and monuments, now scattered over Athas. The Cleansing Wars put paid to the organised worship of the elements, with the deities falling from grace and fragmenting to become Spirits of the Land.