I know the stat adjustments are higher to take into account d6 rolling or point buy but if the DM holds off on the stat boost items (I always hold off on them anyway) it will even out at mid levels.
My players get a kick out of having high stats and don't miss mid level stat boost items as they start to get them at higher levels.
Another question: The 2nd ed rules allowed for some out of balance wild talents at character creation. Does any one have a house rule to recreate the feel of Wild Talents that are balanced, but not to 3.x bland-ards.
That aside, it's not going to change the game all that much, will just mean that most stats give at least a +1 bonus and the odds of having a negative attribute are really low...which a lot of DMs already do by using the 4d6-drop-lowest or other similar methods.
Wild Talent [General]
You have a natural psionic talent.
Prerequisites: No levels in Psionic Classes, or 1st level
Benefit: You gain a single 1st level power, from any power list, and 2 power points with which to activate the power. Your manifester level is 1. The DC for saving throws versus manifestations of your power are Charisma based.
Special: If you later gain levels in a psionic class, this power is added to the list of powers you known and the 2 power points granted by this feat are added to your power point pool.
Improved Wild Talent [General]
You have an unusualy strong natural psionic talent.
Prerequisites: Wild Talent, No levels in Psionic Classes, 3rd level
Benefit: You gain an additional power point per level after the first, and your manifester level for activating your Wild Talent is now ½ your character level (round up). So a 3rd level character would have a manifester level of 2 and a power point reserve of 4, and a 6th level character would have a manifester level of 3 and a power point reserve of 7.
Special: If you later gain levels in a psionic class, this power is added to the list of powers you know and the power points gained by this feat are added to you power point pool. When manifesting this power you can manifest it at a maximum of either your normal manifester level, or at half your character level whichever is higher.
Greater Wild Talent [General]
You amazingly gifted with natural psionic talent.
Prerequisites: Wild Talent, Improved Wild Talent, 6th level
Benefit: You gain an addition Wild Talent (subject to DM’s approval). This power can be chosen from powers up to a level equal to what a Psion of up to half your level could choose. So, at 6th level you could choose a 2nd level power, and at 10th level you could choose a 3rd level power. Concentration is now considered a class skill for you, if it wasn’t already. If you already have Concentration as a class skill, you gain a +2 bonus to your Concentration checks to become Psionically focused or to maintain your Psionic focus.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time it allows you to unlock another Wild Talent (subject to DM’s approval).
Cannibalized Power [General]
You are blessed (or cursed) with a great latent power that you can only activate at great personal expense.
Prerequisites: 1st level, No levels in Psionic Classes, DM’s approval
Benefit: You gain the ability to use a psionic power of up to 4th level (chosen when you take this feat). When you activate this power, you take ability damage equal to the cost of activating the power, of a type dependant on the power chosen as shown in the table below. If you choose a lower level power, you may activate it at a manifester level of up to 7th level, but must still pay the ability cost equal to the level the power is manifested at. Activating a power in this fashion causes you to become fatigued, if you are already fatigued you become exhausted. You may not activate a power in this fashion if you are exhausted. For powers that have a personal range (like many Pyschometabolic powers), you are not fatigued until the duration of the power elapses.
Table 1-1
Power Type Ability
Psychometabolic Intelligence
Psychokinetic Strength
Psychoportation Constitution
Clairsentience Wisdom
Telepathy Constitution
Special: If you later gain levels in a psionic class, you may spend power points equal to your manifester level toward the activation of the power gained from this feat. Each point spent in this way reduces the ability damage from activating the power by one point. Manifester levels and power points gained from Wild talent cannot be utilized toward the activation this power. If you are able to pay the entire cost for activating this power with power points, then you are not fatigued by its activation.
Does anyone have any thoughts on using the old 4d4+4 method of rollong new pc's stats?
I never used it in 2e, and shall never do. Only 5d4. Moreover, I always felt a temptation to use 3d8 even in 2e DS. Fighter with Str 11 is MUCH more interesting, than one with Str 18/92.
I use 3d6+2 allows for the same range of stats as 5d4, but a less centralized distribution.
Yeah I was going to say. That was the reason I switched to that anyways. Plus it fits more with 3e and doesn't feel so 2eish when I'm rolling d4s to get stats, heh.
Yeah I was going to say. That was the reason I switched to that anyways. Plus it fits more with 3e and doesn't feel so 2eish when I'm rolling d4s to get stats, heh.
The higher stats allows you to use more extreme racial modifiers also, which is nice
Elves +4 dex, +2 int; -4 con, -2 wis
Dwarves +4 con, +2 str; -4 dex, -2 cha
Half-Elves +2 dex; -2 con or cha (player's choice)
Halflings +4 dex, +2 wis; -4 str, -2 cha
The higher stats allows you to use more extreme racial modifiers also, which is nice
Elves +4 dex, +2 int; -4 con, -2 wis
Dwarves +4 con, +2 str; -4 dex, -2 cha
Half-Elves +2 dex; -2 con or cha (player's choice)
Halflings +4 dex, +2 wis; -4 str, -2 cha
Yep, already sticking to a more extreme set of racial modifiers instead of D&D d20 watered down friendly stat modifiers, heh.
Still not sure I'm going to go for a straight doubling on some, it tends to get pretty crazy when you go that route on some races. So that part of my conversion is still a work in progress.
We use this feat:
WILD TALENT [GENERAL]
Your mind wakes to a previously unrealized talent for psionics.
Prerequisite: Cha 11, Cha 13, Cha 15, Cha 17, Cha 19
Benefit: Your latent power of psionics flares to life, conferring upon you the designation of a psionic character. As a psionic character, you gain a reserve of power points and can choose psionic powers, take psionic feats, metapsionic feats, and psionic item creation feats. Your manifester level is one quarter of your class level (round down).
Special: If a character with this power multi classes into a psionic class she uses her full manifester level but must select the powers known prior to taking a psionic class as soon as they become available. E.g. Cal has a 1st level power as a Wild Talent. When she takes a level in Psion she must select this power immediately (even if it is not normally available) essentially gaining one less power at that level. Power points gain from this feat overlap (do not stack) with power points gain by level. Characters with levels in any manifesting class may not take this feat.
The level of the character determines the number of powers known and PPs gained.
1st - 3rd level: 2 PP 1 first level power
4th – 7th level: 6 PP 1 second or 2 first level powers.
8th -11th level: 10 PP 1 third or 2 second level powers.
12th level or higher: 14 PP 1 fourth or 2 third level powers
Yep, already sticking to a more extreme set of racial modifiers instead of D&D d20 watered down friendly stat modifiers, heh.
Still not sure I'm going to go for a straight doubling on some, it tends to get pretty crazy when you go that route on some races. So that part of my conversion is still a work in progress.
I went the full-on crazy route and did an almost direct conversion from 2e races to 3e, including the larger racial ability modifiers, maximum class levels, and even the half-giant's doubling of class hit dice. But I don't use the monster racial levels/LAs either, and completely threw out the idea of "3e equality" with all the other mods I made as well. My campaign is pretty much (Jon's) Derk Zun in a 3.5e wrapper. ;)
I went the full-on crazy route and did an almost direct conversion from 2e races to 3e, including the larger racial ability modifiers, maximum class levels, and even the half-giant's doubling of class hit dice. But I don't use the monster racial levels/LAs either, and completely threw out the idea of "3e equality" with all the other mods I made as well. My campaign is pretty much (Jon's) Derk Zun in a 3.5e wrapper. ;)
Heh, as long as you can balance it all out then go for it.
I did an extra improved toughness thing to HG's as well, but since I use wound and vitality points it counts more towards the former then the latter, so they are harder to kill but not so hard to knock out.
So yeah, it has the lil 2e feel to it anthough nothing so much to disrupt the gameplay.
We use the 4d4+4 rule constantly, and the DM compensates by keeping us poor with magical equipmnet. The party is 5x 6th lvl characters (average) and we have one magical sword (+1) and 2 magical armors (partial, +2) and that's it, no rings, ne jewelry cloaks etc. It's who you are, not what you wear. This suits us perfectly since the party has a knack for being imprisoned and robbed.
I would be the same way, wouldn't give out much treasure.
That's why I like some of the Conan rules so much, it's more of what the character can do with class, race, etc. and less about what equipment he has at the time. I've always hated the fact that D&D relied on equipment too much.
I would be the same way, wouldn't give out much treasure.
That's why I like some of the Conan rules so much, it's more of what the character can do with class, race, etc. and less about what equipment he has at the time. I've always hated the fact that D&D relied on equipment too much.
I like the alternate rule that someone suggested in another thread, feats on every odd level and stat boost at every even level, with a 20% reduction in treasure (although I'm using 30%), implemented it in my campaign.
Although my party is still only level 4, I'm planning on using another aspect from Conan: easy come, easy go. Conan can have some pretty fantastic equipment at times, only to lose it to . I think this is dead on for Dark Sun campaigns as well. Make the players feel high and mighty from having tons of gold/good magic/psionic items/etc....then take it all away. :evillaugh
To rid the reliance on magic items for ability I use Class Defence from UA, it's very balanced and allows for Arena combat without it just resulting 1 autohit (save rolling a 1) etc. etc. I am considering the Conan stat increase that improves all stats every 4 levels after 6th.
I use other stuff from Conan as well, such as maneuvers, initiative, multiclass variants.
Most of my house and borrowed rules have been inspired by gladiators, they really don't get the luxery of magic in the arena. This is problematic if you don't want to spend 15 minutes trading hits until one loses due to high Str or Con. Without magic BAB outstrips any defence you could possibly try, even with moving around leaving only standard attacks it's still hard to miss at 15th level. This is wrong, to equally matched experienced gladiators would be very skilled at deflecting/dodging hits as delivering them. The traps, techniques, maneuvers would be grand and complex, something D&D breaks down on.
I want Maximus vs. Tythus the Gaul!
I plan on using a blend of 2e and Dragon stat mods for the PHB races, it makes little sense to me that Athas.org elves are still elves stat wise yet races unique to DS have 2e direct 2e conversion or improvements to them. Dragon at least made the effort to have the races stronger than the FR counterparts (though the XPH 1/2 Giant should be stricken).
To rid the reliance on magic items for ability I use Class Defence from UA, it's very balanced and allows for Arena combat without it just resulting 1 autohit (save rolling a 1) etc. etc. I am considering the Conan stat increase that improves all stats every 4 levels after 6th.
I use other stuff from Conan as well, such as maneuvers, initiative, multiclass variants.
Most of my house and borrowed rules have been inspired by gladiators, they really don't get the luxery of magic in the arena. This is problematic if you don't want to spend 15 minutes trading hits until one loses due to high Str or Con. Without magic BAB outstrips any defence you could possibly try, even with moving around leaving only standard attacks it's still hard to miss at 15th level. This is wrong, to equally matched experienced gladiators would be very skilled at deflecting/dodging hits as delivering them. The traps, techniques, maneuvers would be grand and complex, something D&D breaks down on.
I want Maximus vs. Tythus the Gaul!
Save for Combat Expertise and Improved Combat Expertise I must agree with you. Next time I start a new game I'm definately going to a Iron Heros style DR system for armor, a class defense bonus, action points, and wound/vitality system. I just can't change the rules in the middle of a campaign.
I never liked point-buy in the DMG, since the marginal cost per point increases, while the bonus granted by the higher score doesn't scale with the same proportion. Example: It costs 4 points to buy a 12 (+1), 6 points to buy a 14 (+2), but 10 points to buy a 16 (+3) and whooping 16 points to buy an 18 (+4).
I usually give my players 84 points to distribute on a 1-per-1 basis. That nets for a 14 average, and characters can easily get high scores if they desire them.
Sounds interesting. Could you elaborate what effect this has on your campaign, how your players stat their characters, does it change your players' style of character generation...
I usually give my players 84 points to distribute on a 1-per-1 basis. That nets for a 14 average, and characters can easily get high scores if they desire them.
I never liked point-buy in the DMG, since the marginal cost per point increases, while the bonus granted by the higher score doesn't scale with the same proportion. Example: It costs 4 points to buy a 12 (+1), 6 points to buy a 14 (+2), but 10 points to buy a 16 (+3) and whooping 16 points to buy an 18 (+4).
I've given my players the option of doing a 84 point distribute like that, but none of them ever go for it. My players are all obsessed with rolling for some reason. Personally I would take the points over rolling any day *Shrug*
Sounds interesting. Could you elaborate what effect this has on your campaign, how your players stat their characters, does it change your players' style of character generation...
For one it gives everyone the same starting point. Second, it eliminates the occasional reroll of a poor dice roll when creating characters and not in the presence of others. Third, players can model their characters exactly as they want rather than being subjective to the randomness of dice rolls. This tends towards placing an 18 in your most important attribute (I use 18 as a maximum starting score, but in theory you could expand this to 20 - if you want a more 2E style campaign, something I might do in my next campaign).
Does anyone have any thoughts on using the old 4d4+4 method of rollong new pc's stats?
I know the stat adjustments are higher to take into account d6 rolling or point buy but if the DM holds off on the stat boost items (I always hold off on them anyway) it will even out at mid levels.My players get a kick out of having high stats and don't miss mid level stat boost items as they start to get them at higher levels.
Are you considering also using the 2E player's handbook attack and damage bonus's for abilities? Yeah, those were the days
It said the reason for these stats was Athas's harsh enviornment, but I can see where it would be way imbalanced, a 3rd level preserver (they all start at 3rd level) would have no chance at all against 3rd level half giant, with doubled hit dice and +11 to damage.
I usually give my players 84 points to distribute on a 1-per-1 basis. That nets for a 14 average, and characters can easily get high scores if they desire them.
I gave my players just 80 points to distribute. Maybe coz I'm deep down mean, but also to err on the safe side. It was a great way to let them generate characters in the absence of me witnessing their rolls.
But I also liked to see that if players give one ability a very high score, there are also likely to have one which is low (with a minus). Characters with weaknesses are more 'human' and in the long run more likeable and team- oriented. I enjoyed creating NPCs like a clumsy female half giant who smashed everything in sight to bits by falling over it or the foolish but brilliant elven thief that gets himself in constant pickles.
When my players create new characters for their character tree, I'd like them to role rather than just distribute points and I'd like to reward them for doing this. (This would mean rolling with a method which would be likely to give a total of more than 80 points in exchange for loss of control).
The 3D6+2 might be good, or perhaps even a 2D8+4 (!), as this will probably end up with a few high scores and likely to produce a weakness (low ability score), which the characters will then have to make the most of. But I'll have to look at the expected distribution of scores before I decide.
5D4 or even 4D4+4 methods produce characters with very similar attributes and little range, so I don't like it.