Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 yaeri Feb 26, 2006 15:56:16	I've got some questions about the city of doors. My upcoming campaign is going to bring the players in Sigil at a certain moment. All I know about Sigil is what's written in the manual of the planes, and that's not much. But I have also played through Planescape Torment and that's where I've got most of my knowledge and interest in the setting from. So my first question is, if the Sigil from Planescape Torment is an accurate one, or if the designers have taken a lot of artistic liberty in their approach. What I'm mainly interested in is if the visual representation of Sigil is accurate. For example, in the computer game a lot of blades (like on the ladies' head) were worked into the buildings. Is this appropriate? Secondly, are the factions of the game accurate? I was thinking of featuring the Sensates and their recorder stones. I've seen the Sensates mentioned on a 3.5 site of planescape. Are the recorder stones also official material? Lastly, a silly question. I know the lady of pain is the ultimate authority in Sigil. But I understand there's no real 'communication' with her. Suppose someone would want to set up residence in Sigil. Can anyone just build a house in Sigil or is there someone you can ask for permission? PS: I know there's a site that has the planescape material still for sale in pdf format for a copper a piece, but I don't have VISA or anything like that yet.
#2 ordbyrht Feb 26, 2006 16:45:57	So my first question is, if the Sigil from Planescape Torment is an accurate one, or if the designers have taken a lot of artistic liberty in their approach. What I'm mainly interested in is if the visual representation of Sigil is accurate. For example, in the computer game a lot of blades (like on the ladies' head) were worked into the buildings. Is this appropriate? Yes, most, if not all, of the buildings in Sigil have blades on them. Keeps those pesky intruders away. Secondly, are the factions of the game accurate? I was thinking of featuring the Sensates and their recorder stones. I've seen the Sensates mentioned on a 3.5 site of planescape. Are the recorder stones also official material? As far as I know, the factions were accurately represented. And recorder stones are official, as far as Planescape is concerned. Lastly, a silly question. I know the lady of pain is the ultimate authority in Sigil. But I understand there's no real 'communication' with her. Suppose someone would want to set up residence in Sigil. Can anyone just build a house in Sigil or is there someone you can ask for permission? Absolutely. The Lady isn't concerned with day-to-day concerns such as land ownerships. Her rules are more like "No gods allowed" and "Get out of my city you quibbling factions". Planewalker.com has released a number of chapters for their Planescape Campaign Setting, which can be found here. Chapter 3 contains the latest on the factions and Chapter 7 is an excellent write-up on Sigil, written by our very own Shemeska.
#3 ripvanwormer Feb 26, 2006 18:46:31	So my first question is, if the Sigil from Planescape Torment is an accurate one Yes, it's very accurate. Some of the Planescape designers were involved with the creation of the game. The factions, the Sensates, recorder stones, and the Civic Festhall are all represented accurately within the game. Only thing is, the order of the wards is a little different from what the computer game might make it seen. In Torment, you start in the Hive, travel to the Lower Ward, and finally end up in the Clerk's Ward. That's fine - there's nothing wrong with that - but note that the Hive and Clerk's Ward actually border one another, with the Lower Ward bordering the Hive's other end. The Nameless One either uses a portal to travel directly between the Lower and Clerk's Wards, or he travels through a bunch of other wards to get from one to the other and they just don't show it in the game. See these maps of Sigil. Lastly, a silly question. I know the lady of pain is the ultimate authority in Sigil. But I understand there's no real 'communication' with her. Suppose someone would want to set up residence in Sigil. Can anyone just build a house in Sigil or is there someone you can ask for permission? You need to get permission from the people who own the buildings. Land's at a premium in Sigil - an extremely crowded metropolis - and there's not room for everyone to just come in and build. You can be a squatter in the Hive Ward, but mostly in Sigil you're going to need to rent from a landlord. You don't (and can't) get permission from the Lady of Pain herself, but there's no room to build your own kip in the city without plowing down some building that's already there. Download Planewalker's Chapter 7 of their official releases for much more on Sigil, although note that this takes place after the war between the factions, so things are a little different from how they were in Torment.
#4 factol_rhys_dup Feb 27, 2006 0:08:57	The factions are delightfully accurate in Torment, except that there are a lot more. In classic Planescape there were fifteen factions, but only the Dustmen, Sensates, and Godsmen made prominent appearances in the CRPG, though you get exposure to the Harmonium, the Mercykillers, the Xaositects, and the Indeps. One thing I didn't like so much, though, was how the Xaositects only appeared as street thugs (with a few exceptions like the blind painter). Torment looks exactly like Sigil. The Cage, especially the lower wards, are supposed to be ramshackle, overcrowded, and covered in blades. It helps keep the city feeling wild and untamed, even though you're in arguably the center of planewalker civilization. The Lady never talks at all. The rare proclamation that she makes is done through dabus. But she would never take part in something as banal as land zoning or housing. It takes a pretty drastic threat to the city's stability to get her involved.
#5 ripvanwormer Feb 27, 2006 1:53:09	Sigil's council (before the Faction War, the Hall of Speakers) might give permission for someone to build over a recently destroyed building, or one that's been seized because the owner hasn't paid taxes.
#6 yaeri Feb 27, 2006 2:47:07	Thanks those maps are great! :D I once found all those pieces glued together but in so small a resolution I couldn't read a single word on it. Good that the creators did such a nice job with torment. Then I can just install that game again load my old savegame, and get a lot of information out of the games encyclopedia (which stored every creature, NPC and faction you encountered in the game) So on the housing issue, Sigil could be considered like our planet? With all viable terrain already divided (countries) and everyone exerting power over their piece of territory? More questions will probably come up but first I'll read into that chapter that has been linked. Thanks
#7 ripvanwormer Feb 27, 2006 9:56:50	So on the housing issue, Sigil could be considered like our planet? With all viable terrain already divided (countries) and everyone exerting power over their piece of territory? Well, it's not as big as a planet. It's a city. No, it's not really like countries - landlords own individual buildings, not swaths of terrain. The buildings sometimes change places anyway, the streets and alleys shifting unpredictably. It's a city where space is too much at a premium for everyone who wants to to build a house. Sometimes dabus build new buildings, and sometimes they new streets and courts appear out of nowhere, in which case the city's authorities would sell the new buildings, and the owners would be expected to pay taxes on what they own. On the housing issue, Sigil should be considered like, say, the Island of Manhattan in New York. You can buy or rent property there if you have enough money, but you can't just build there without permission. There's not enough room; it's a finite area and it's already full of streets and buildings. Sigil's about five miles wide and about twenty miles long, although its size isn't stable - it can grow and shrink according to the Lady's will, and can expand to accomodate more people. But it's always crowded, and always full.
#8 yaeri Feb 27, 2006 13:06:55	Hehe, I know Sigil's not that big. It's just the first similar (or what I thought to be similar :D) thing that popped in my mind. ;) The thing that's boggling me about this is, who the authorities are in Sigil. Who sells those houses if the Dabus build something new? And with the houses moving around, how does everyone now which piece of land is his? I can imagine a lot of disputes between neighbours about whose garden that valuable beatles record was found in. :D
#9 ripvanwormer Feb 27, 2006 13:22:41	The thing that's boggling me about this is, who the authorities are in Sigil. The factions, who make laws in the Hall of Speakers. After the Faction War, it's the City Council, who are elected to their positions. And with the houses moving around, how does everyone now which piece of land is his? I can imagine a lot of disputes between neighbours about whose garden that valuable beatles record was found in. :D The garden would presumedly move with the building. If it doesn't, it's probably just lost: it's the cost of living in Sigil. But you generally own a building, not a plot of land.